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memsom commented on Teletext in North America   computer.rip/2025-08-25-t... · Posted by u/susam
memsom · 3 days ago
No, I was there. I'm British and in my 50's. I lived through this. I'm not remembering something I was told or reading you a Wikipedia article, I actually used this technology regularly in the 80's and 90's before Digital TV/DVB killed it off.

Prestel was something else. It was a teletext style system, but teletext was on every TV in the UK after the BBC started broadcasting CEEFAX (their service) and ITV started providing TELETEXT (their service). Channel 4 also had a service, but I don't remember what it was called.

Teletext was using the same style of presentation (BBC Micro had mode 7, and this was Prestel/Teletext compatible.) But Teletext was one way - it was broadcasted as part of the TV signal and your TV would decode the data and display it. If you wanted a specific page, you entered the number and then the receiver waited for the broadcast to get to that page and it decoded it and displayed it. There was no uplink. It all happened as part of the transmission and all of the pages were transmitted serialy in order so you would feel like entering in 123 would load page 123 directly, but actually it was displayed the next time 123 was transmitted.

memsom · 3 days ago
In fact - ITV had ORACLE till the early 90's, Channel 4 had 4-TEL and TELETEXT didn't replace ORACLE till about 93. I forgot about ORACLE....
memsom commented on Teletext in North America   computer.rip/2025-08-25-t... · Posted by u/susam
nothankyou777 · 5 days ago
You're looking at it through internet-era glasses. We're talking late 70s to early 80s tech and prices. Equipment was expensive. Clients were charged by the minute. Without city-level populations, the numbers didn't pan out. If the prospects were brighter, companies would have been more serious about converging on a standard.

A late 80s / early 90s BBS is no comparison. Cost-per-everything in computers had plummeted by then--even kids could host a BBS with the family computer.

Per wiki on Prestel (i know it's videotex, but the article covered both):

Hosting Costs:

> In 1985, British Telecom estimated that for an IP using a typical minicomputer (such as the PDP-11) located 100 km from London and handling up to 10 users simultaneously at peak times, the one-off software set-up cost would be at least £16,000, communication costs would range from £4,280 to £5,550 a year (depending on the type of connection), and Prestel usage would cost £8,600 a year.[82]: 4

Usage Costs:

> At the launch of the commercial service in September 1979, and in addition to phone charges, users were charged 3p per minute online to Prestel from 8 am to 6 pm Monday to Friday, and 3p for three minutes at other times. Installing a phone jack-socket cost £13, with a quarterly rental of 50p. Business users paid an additional standing charge (i.e., a flat charge regardless of usage) of £12 per quarter.[23]

> By October 1982, the online usage charge had risen to 5p per minute (8 am to 6 pm Monday to Friday and also 8 am to 1 pm on Saturdays, free at other times), the business standing charge to £15 per quarter, residential users now paid £5 per quarter, and jack installation cost "from £15", with a 15p quarterly rental fee.[24]: 2

Content Distribution Costs:

> A main IP rented pages from the Post Office (initially) or British Telecom (later), and controlled a three-digit master-page in the database. In 1982, this cost an annual £5,500 for a basic package,[24]: 1 equivalent to around £29,000 in 2021.[80]

memsom · 3 days ago
No, I was there. I'm British and in my 50's. I lived through this. I'm not remembering something I was told or reading you a Wikipedia article, I actually used this technology regularly in the 80's and 90's before Digital TV/DVB killed it off.

Prestel was something else. It was a teletext style system, but teletext was on every TV in the UK after the BBC started broadcasting CEEFAX (their service) and ITV started providing TELETEXT (their service). Channel 4 also had a service, but I don't remember what it was called.

Teletext was using the same style of presentation (BBC Micro had mode 7, and this was Prestel/Teletext compatible.) But Teletext was one way - it was broadcasted as part of the TV signal and your TV would decode the data and display it. If you wanted a specific page, you entered the number and then the receiver waited for the broadcast to get to that page and it decoded it and displayed it. There was no uplink. It all happened as part of the transmission and all of the pages were transmitted serialy in order so you would feel like entering in 123 would load page 123 directly, but actually it was displayed the next time 123 was transmitted.

memsom commented on Teletext in North America   computer.rip/2025-08-25-t... · Posted by u/susam
nothankyou777 · 5 days ago
Teletext had a better run in Europe for the same reason as public transport: higher population density. It is more economical when you can spread the cost over more customers. In places as sparsely populated as flyover US & Canada, the cost of maintaining a teletext presence wasn't worth the handful of contacts you'd get out of it. Boston or New York could have benefited, but for the rest of the country, it was brutally outperformed by the cork board.
memsom · 5 days ago
Teletext is one way. Your receiver decodes the page you request, but you have no uplink.

Teletext was made by major broadcasters, so NBC/ABC/CBS in the US might have had a service. It is just broadcasted as part of the signal, so the actual hardware is in the end users device. All TV's in the UK and Europe just had teletext decoders built in as standard. The cost of entry was not high at all. The only expense was updating the content. But honestly, that wasn't really a massive effort unless you wanted a lot of graphics (ASCII style, obviously.) It was a bout as much effort as a local news paper or a well maintained BBS.

memsom commented on Fenster: Most minimal cross-platform GUI library   github.com/zserge/fenster... · Posted by u/klaussilveira
jraph · 6 days ago
Fenêtre in French.

Funny, English words often come from either German or French. Here where German and French agree, English is different.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/window#Etymology (missing sources as of right now)

memsom · 6 days ago
Ah - you are conflating Germanic for German. Germanic is not equivalent to German. German (deutsch) is a national language, Germanic is a language family. German belongs to this family, but it is not the root of all Germanic languages. English and German sit in the West Germanic branch, the East Germanic was mostly Gothic (dead) and the North Germanic languages are Swedish/Danish/Norwegian/Icelandic/Faroese and various other non national languages. English is a West Germanic language, but it was massively influenced by Old Norse (North Germanic) and various Frenches (and Latin/Greek in technical terms) as well as probably the native British languages somewhat in grammar (the present continuous tense in English also happens in Welsh, and is not very Germanic.)

So - Window is Germanic. It comes from Old Norse 'vindauga', and the modern Norwegian Bokmal version is 'vindu'[1].

The German word for Window comes from Latin [2].

[1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vindu

[2] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fenster

memsom commented on Show HN: OS X Mavericks Forever   mavericksforever.com/... · Posted by u/Wowfunhappy
memsom · 10 days ago
I have a Mac Pro 1,1 and trying this might actually be kind of cool and give it more life. It is pretty limited otherwise and the 3,1 it sits next to is way more practical.
memsom commented on Show HN: OS X Mavericks Forever   mavericksforever.com/... · Posted by u/Wowfunhappy
nutjob2 · 11 days ago
This is way I feel, but my last stop is 10.15 (Catalina) having started with 3.2. Modern macOS is just trash.

My goal over the longer term is to fully migrate to Android, especially desktop mode. There are several reasons for this but maybe the fact that given the typical hardware for Android means it's less likely suffer the terminal bloat of desktop systems.

memsom · 10 days ago
I stayed on Catalina for a long time as it was the last version my Macbook Pro 2012 supported natively. It is a pretty solid OS, though it is harder to get Apple services running on it now.

I personally just use Sonoma now on my Macbook Pro M3 Pro.

memsom commented on Show HN: OS X Mavericks Forever   mavericksforever.com/... · Posted by u/Wowfunhappy
Wowfunhappy · 11 days ago
Well, if your goal is to get away from modern macOS, your options are Intel or PowerPC...
memsom · 10 days ago
PowerPC you have Leopard or Tiger, the latter being "faster" but more limited. You can also install the version of Leopard someone added Snow Leopard beta parts to, which I do have on my PPC MacMini, but it still gives you limited returns.

With PowerPC you might be better looking at a third party. I hear good things about MorphOS, though never tried it. You could do Linux too.

memsom commented on A 1960s schools experiment that created a new alphabet   theguardian.com/education... · Posted by u/Hooke
memsom · a month ago
When I was in school in the 80's, I remember seeing these books stacked up at the back of the classroom. There were other Ladybird books in English standard spelling (they were really common), but these were weird. The teacher just told us to ignore them. But weirdly, the text is really easy to read int he examples given. I never used or even read the ones in my youth, so it must just be easy for my brain to process (disclaimer, I am a speaker of basic Swedish and a little Norwegian, so I am used to reading words with odd spellings and going "oh right, that is X in English.")
memsom commented on I have tinnitus. I don't recommend it   blog.greg.technology/2025... · Posted by u/gregsadetsky
memsom · 3 months ago
I have had tinnitus for most of my life. When I was a child I had a massive ear infection that burst my eardrum on the left side and that is the worse side. Honestly I can just tune it out and it seems normal. It mainly causes issues in louder environments because it can be difficult to hear what people are saying. And it doesn’t need to be very loud. A bar with music and lots of people talking around me can be enough.

It is totally possible to exist with it though.

memsom commented on CLion Is Now Free for Non-Commercial Use   blog.jetbrains.com/clion/... · Posted by u/AlexeyBrin
cempaka · 4 months ago
What did you mean by "inline classes" here? My only understanding of that term applies to something like what Java is still developing for Valhalla but has not delivered yet, whereas Kotlin is arguably a little farther along with its own feature with that exact name.
memsom · 4 months ago
Would it be the classes Java has always had that sit inside a parent class and can access the instance fields/properties of the parent? These are very Java, and hard to recreate in a language that doesn't support that type of embedding. C# really struggles with it. Using the Android API via Xamarin was always very much harder to do anything with because of this symbiotic relationship. I have done a little Kotlin, but I don't remember if it support that or not.

u/memsom

KarmaCake day535August 28, 2013View Original