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lwhalen commented on The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood   shreyans.org/fatherhood... · Posted by u/shreyans
mistermann · a year ago
> You're parsing semantics rather than engaging with the core point.

a) You are engaging in rhetoric.

b) "parsing semantics" is not the win you think it is - we are in the age of AI, man. People now know what the term means.

> When I say something "can be dismissed," I mean that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

The question is: what is the epistemic status?

Are you afraid to admit it out loud, or does the question not even make sense?

> The burden of proof lies with those making supernatural claims, not with those rejecting them.

False.

"A" claim lies with anyone who makes an assertion of fact. That is you, and it is not me.

> You seem to be suggesting there's some deep irony or inconsistency in my position

There is, though I wouldn't call it "deep" (that's "you" engaging in rhetorical framing"). And I explicitly told you the problem: you are experiencing (psychologically) "Faith" (belief without adequate substantiating evidence).

Look, you're welcome to believe whatever you like, but please don't act as if you are working with some superior to others logic. You are using heuristics, and perhaps some "consensus" "reality".

> but pointing out logical flaws in religious reasoning isn't the same as making unsupported assertions about the supernatural.

I am pointing out the errors in yours. But if you are admitting the religious aspect to it, we've made some progress.

FWIW: in case you're wondering whether I think religious people are also silly in their reasoning: yes I do.

> And yes, I consciously chose to focus on the most relevant parts of your argument rather than chase every tangential point.

But then you would be treating the subjective realm as objective, which is kinda the same thing that I am originally complaining about.

I am genuinely curious: do you think I am dumb, or confused? "Pedantic" I can understand (thought that experience is also technically incorrect).

lwhalen · a year ago
Look, I understand what you're getting at regarding epistemological foundations. Yes, we all operate on some basic assumptions about reality, consciousness, and the reliability of our senses. But there's a meaningful difference between accepting base axioms necessary for any kind of knowledge (like "my sensory experiences generally correspond to reality") and accepting specific supernatural claims that contradict observable evidence.

When I say "can be dismissed," I mean exactly that - claims that contradict known physics, make untestable assertions, or rely on circular logic can be provisionally rejected until evidence is presented. That's not faith - it's methodological naturalism.

You're right that I'm working with consensus reality and scientific heuristics. But these approaches have demonstrated predictive power and practical utility. They've given us everything from smartphones to space travel. Religious claims haven't demonstrated similar utility beyond social/psychological benefits that can be explained naturalistically.

No, I don't think you're dumb or confused. You're making a sophisticated point about epistemological humility. But I worry this kind of radical skepticism, taken to its logical conclusion, leads to a philosophical paralysis where we can't meaningfully distinguish between well-supported and unsupported beliefs.

lwhalen commented on The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood   shreyans.org/fatherhood... · Posted by u/shreyans
mistermann · a year ago
> You are backing into a very common fallacy, Pascal's Wager.

Had I made an assertion (about the object level point of contention) or even offered relevant advice (I didn't), you would have a fine point. But I did not.

You on the other hand, did make an assertion (several, actually).

Have you some more Normative Memetic Rhetoric (framed as Good Faith Critical Thinking) for me?

And also: I did make an assertion, and asked some pointed questions, but you (shrewdly?) decided to give those a pass, instead opting for much more convenient simulated events.

A question: did you do this with conscious knowledge and intent?

> "If not the christian god, why not the flying spaghetti monster" is what this usually boils down to.

Interestingly, this is basically the opposite of the kind of thinking I recommend. This is substantially ironic.

> Anything that is presented without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

Can you (in fact, and physically, as opposed to simply claiming that you have the ability) please translate the figure of speech "can be dismissed" into an explicit epistemic status?

EDIT: thought I'd pat myself on the back for my earlier prescience: "Luckily, this can be easily dismissed with some pre-existing memes."

Gosh, how could I have possibly done that? Am I a wizard??

lwhalen · a year ago
You're parsing semantics rather than engaging with the core point. When I say something "can be dismissed," I mean that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The burden of proof lies with those making supernatural claims, not with those rejecting them. You seem to be suggesting there's some deep irony or inconsistency in my position, but pointing out logical flaws in religious reasoning isn't the same as making unsupported assertions about the supernatural. And yes, I consciously chose to focus on the most relevant parts of your argument rather than chase every tangential point.
lwhalen commented on The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood   shreyans.org/fatherhood... · Posted by u/shreyans
mistermann · a year ago
> The vast majority of my belief system is or can trivially be peer-reviewed and reproduced.

Not possible for you to know (more Faith...watch out for misdirection though).

> but it's far less egregious than "sky-daddy says I should love, honor, and obey him - and most crucially give him MONEY as the almighty is somehow perpetually short on cash - so I can be saved".

I will resist the urge to make up something about Your Kind and represent it as True.

> Wait, what am I going to be saved from, you say?

How about: yourselves?

lwhalen · a year ago
You are backing into a very common fallacy, Pascal's Wager. "If not the christian god, why not the flying spaghetti monster" is what this usually boils down to. Anything that is presented without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

Dead Comment

lwhalen commented on The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood   shreyans.org/fatherhood... · Posted by u/shreyans
mistermann · a year ago
There is substantial irony in your comment fyi.
lwhalen · a year ago
do tell?

Dead Comment

lwhalen commented on Marshall Brain has died   wral.com/news/local/nc-st... · Posted by u/bsagdiyev
lwhalen · a year ago
He was also the author of https://marshallbrain.com/manna, a sci-fi story that has stuck with me for years.
lwhalen commented on Ask HN: Former gifted children with hard lives, how did you turn out?    · Posted by u/askHN2024
lwhalen · a year ago
ACE score of 7. I am ridiculously happy. I have a wife who loves me, and two (little) kids who want to be around me. A successful and fulfilling career that lets me provide for (and even spoil, sometimes) my family. Multiple side-projects/hobbies/'hustles' that I can pick up or put down at will. Life is really, fantastically, pronoia-inducingly, good. It wasn't always this way, and I owe a LOT to great teachers in my formative years (HS and some college) who encouraged me to get the hell out of the house, city, and state I grew up in, and become my own man far far away from the place and family of my birth.

I'd been on the 'gifted' track since pre-K (I was reading books without pictures by 3, for example, and had read The Hobbit in Kindergarten). I made it out (barely) of one of the worst public middle/highschool systems in the country, and got a 70%+ 4 year scholarship into one of the best. My grandparents (specifically my maternal grandmother, may she RIP) busted all kinds of ass to make up the difference. "Family drama" almost made it to where I couldn't get transport to out-of-state college at the very last minute, and my paternal grandfather (may HE RIP!) showed up out of the blue, helped me throw my things in his truck, and drove me 12 hours one-way so I could attend college (no I did not finish, and dropped out after 4 years; long story)

The fear, doubt, and insecurity of my teens led to quite a bit of learning and growing in my early/mid 20s, and it just got better from there. "Getting the hell out" was the best advice I had gotten, and I am so glad I was able to take it.

My biggest concern these days is how do I grow beyond my damaged upbringing and not just be a "neutral" force in my family's life, but a "good" one. I'd like to be around for any grandkids (shucks, maybe even GREAT grandkids if the health and longevity sciences keep doing their respective things), and a positive presence in their lives too.

lwhalen commented on US Supreme Court allows cities to ban homeless camps   bbc.com/news/articles/cj7... · Posted by u/I-M-S
PessimalDecimal · a year ago
They get to pay for other people's stuff. See how this works?
lwhalen · a year ago
You (and the rest of the scolds in this thread) are allowed to do whatever you want with your money. A $3000/mo mortgage spread between ten (or more!) like-minded friends makes for a very affordable hobby. Get you a second house, open it up to all and sundry, and be the change you want to see in the world. No, it won't solve homelessness overnight, but it's not nothing. You'd be doing something in-line with your values, without forcing others to spend their tax-dollars on it, and you get ALL the points. If you blog/vlog/whatever about it regularly, you might get others interested and following your example. Bam - homegrown grass-roots homelessness dent, without third-party involvement.
lwhalen commented on US Supreme Court allows cities to ban homeless camps   bbc.com/news/articles/cj7... · Posted by u/I-M-S
Arrath · a year ago
So we're set on expending resources.

If we're going to spend the resources to incarcerate these folks, would not the resources be better spent (with much better potential RoI, no less) on assisting persons in obtaining living situations?

lwhalen · a year ago
What do you tell the families who scrimped, saved, and generally busted ass to be able to afford their homes?

u/lwhalen

KarmaCake day1328March 9, 2010View Original