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lentil_soup commented on Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android   9to5google.com/2025/08/25... · Posted by u/kotaKat
cjs_ac · 18 hours ago
> No idea, whoever they are they're still well compensated and can afford some resistance

Claiming that people you've never met are sufficiently financially secure to risk their livelihood for your protest movement is the kind of hubris I hope to never have.

> computing is built on a history of openness and interoperability

There was nothing inevitable about this, and while it is the superior engineering choice, that's not how decisions are made. Open standards and protocols only gained industry support because those industry players were trying to commoditise their complements, and open standards were the only way to achieve that. There are plenty of players in the industry who work under the monolithic closed-source model, but we 'cool kids' never hear about them, because they only talk to massive businesses with procurement departments.

lentil_soup · 18 hours ago
>> Claiming that people you've never met are sufficiently financially secure to risk their livelihood for your protest movement is the kind of hubris I hope to never have.

I don't understand your agressiveness towards me, this is a conversation, we can talk and disagree without insulting.

I don't know every developer at Google or their situation but the idea that they're victims of a system that forces their hand is a stretch. There's people resisting changes they don't want at every step of the soci-economical ladder in different countries across countries and cultures. I can 100% understand a single person not being able to do so given their life circustances, but we're talking about a change across an organisation that probably encompases 100s of people, this is not resting on a single person. As I said in my original post, there's doctors in poorer countries with better ethics, what's different about developers?

lentil_soup commented on Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android   9to5google.com/2025/08/25... · Posted by u/kotaKat
cjs_ac · 19 hours ago
What makes you so sure that such a hypothetical code of ethics would promote user freedom? I think it far more likely that protecting the user from harm (i.e., not allowing the user to install malware) would appear in that code.

Philosophers have been arguing about morality and ethics for thousands of years, and are no closer to consensus than they have ever been. The idea that 'I should be allowed to do whatever I want with computing machinery that I have bought' is a political choice, and because only a very small proportion is able to exercise that belief or even understand what it means, it is highly susceptible to being discarded in favour of beliefs like 'do whatever it takes to get the scammers off the internet'.

> The usual answer that their livelyhoods depend on it is simplistic, these are the best paid developers in the US, pretty sure they have some sway power.

You think that Google's best and brightest are working on the Google Play store?

lentil_soup · 19 hours ago
> You think that Google's best and brightest are working on the Google Play store?

No idea, whoever they are they're still well compensated and can afford some resistance

> What makes you so sure that such a hypothetical code of ethics would promote user freedom? I think it far more likely that protecting the user from harm (i.e., not allowing the user to install malware) would appear in that code.

Maybe? Maybe not? I never said I'm sure of it, but computing is built on a history of openness and interoperability. We at somepoint agreed having open hardware and protocols was the way to go, and we were right. A lot of the world runs on open source software, we managed to built the internet, we have PCs where you can swap components and it just works. None of that is obvious if you were to re-invent it in 2025. Malware is an excuse, you can battle that without losing any of the above.

lentil_soup commented on Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android   9to5google.com/2025/08/25... · Posted by u/kotaKat
schoen · 20 hours ago
They think they're fighting malware, because that is their main motivation.

They're just not also worrying about other effects like making it easy for governments to ban software, or making it hard for people to write software under a pseudonym.

Paternalistic mechanisms are relatively popular in security engineering right now because users are so often unsophisticated and time-constrained, while attackers are so often sophisticated and well-resourced. Paternalism almost always responds to real risks and threats, so it doesn't feel malicious because it's not rooted in malice.

I'm glad that people are so worried about this change, because I find it really alarming. But it's not like restrictions on people's choices have been that unusual as a response to dangers in modern history. In fact, professions like public health, occupational safety, and tort law often seem to presume that the general public probably shouldn't be allowed to make certain kinds of dangerous choices. They might be ethically wrong about that, but they clearly don't see themselves as bad guys for thinking so.

lentil_soup · 19 hours ago
that's a good point. As a developer, this particular case obviously I understand much better and see the where it leads - the opposite direction of the openess that made PCs and computing so revolutionary in the last few decades.

It's also worrying that in this case it's a private corporation the one calling the shots. Naively, in the other cases you mention it's at least government dictated which means there's some sense of accountability and transparency to the process (not saying that it's perfect of course).

lentil_soup commented on Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android   9to5google.com/2025/08/25... · Posted by u/kotaKat
Perz1val · 20 hours ago
I think they believe it is a good change, becuase they're tasked with fixing the fact users can install malware. They've been telling themselves their propaganda for months/years before the changes hit production
lentil_soup · 20 hours ago
Yeah, I guess so. That must lead to a lot of cognitive dissonance as I am sure these are not "evil" people, they just find a way to rationalise it away.
lentil_soup commented on Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android   9to5google.com/2025/08/25... · Posted by u/kotaKat
lentil_soup · 20 hours ago
I always wonder, who are the developers doing this? don't they feel bad about going through with these changes or do they fool themselves thinking it's the right thing? is it greed?

many other fields have an explicit or implicit ethics code which we seem to lack. I'm thinking about other fields like medicine, engineering, etc. Probably since the entry level to development is low and anyone can do it, it means there's no way to enforce/teach it?

The usual answer that their livelyhoods depend on it is simplistic, these are the best paid developers in the US, pretty sure they have some sway power. There are doctors in way poorer countries with higher ethics standards.

lentil_soup commented on German contest to live in depopulated Soviet-era city proves global hit   theguardian.com/world/202... · Posted by u/c420
mhh__ · 2 days ago
Many are racist but the deeper reason to be skeptical is that the current/dominant model assumes everyone in the world is basically fungible and can seamlessly integrate into the west without any particular guidance.

That might have even been true decades ago when rates of influx were tiny, but now we live with a firehose under the assumption that there cannot be any hysteresis — we are a big planet, any new culture is a point mass. And that all these new populations get along (they don't).

We invaded Afghanistan and started nation building on the assumption that within every Afghan is a Western liberal trying to get out. If you haven't seen it, please watch the Adam Curtis doc "Bitter lake" to see how much of a disaster this project was. We don't understand their culture at all.

Those same people who planned that war brought about the current normal of historically flows of people every year. Some of them have explicitly said they wanted to do a cultural transformation project too but I'm prepared to say that was a relatively small group of extremists.

Most of the world is very, very, different to the things westerners are used to. We don't have clans, we don't marry inside our families, we don't grow up wanting to make our parents proud anywhere near as much as in non-western countries (etc, "WEIRD" culture as argued in the now-famous book).

Not all non-western countries are the same e.g. SEA famously quite compatible with our culture up to a point, but you'd clearly give a daughter very different travel advice if she was going to Morocco versus Inverness.

If nothing else, is it not a bit weird to go to quite a few large European cities and find roughly the same distribution of people serving your coffee or waiting at your table?

I genuinely wonder what the many Chinese tourists coming to London think when they go into a shop to buy some water or something and all the staff are new arrivals to Britain speaking (say) Hindi rather than English to eachother.

And that's not to say they couldn't integrate at some point but at the moment the "purpose of a system is what it does" revealed preference is that we don't want them to.

lentil_soup · 2 days ago
>> speaking (say) Hindi rather than English to eachother.

What's the problem? They're not speaking to you and they share another language that's not English. Integration doesn't mean don't speak your mother tongue ever again. You're also taking about Europe where a different language is spoken every 100km.

Personally I find it pretty cool to hear other languages around me. Great opportunities to learn

lentil_soup commented on Will at centre of legal battle over Shakespeare’s home unearthed after 150 years   theguardian.com/culture/2... · Posted by u/forthelose
supportengineer · 2 days ago
Are living relatives still fighting over the home?
lentil_soup · 2 days ago
The article says it was demolished in the 1700s
lentil_soup commented on NASA's Juno mission leaves legacy of science at Jupiter   scientificamerican.com/ar... · Posted by u/apress
lentil_soup · 2 days ago
These are the pictures from the camera, incredibly beautiful stuff

https://science.nasa.gov/gallery/junocam-images/

lentil_soup commented on French firm Gouach is pitching an Infinite Battery with replaceable cells   arstechnica.com/gadgets/2... · Posted by u/pabs3
lentil_soup · 6 days ago
>> It keeps you updated on the status of cell performance and heat through a Bluetooth-connected app

why an app? Why not a simple light or error code on device?

u/lentil_soup

KarmaCake day3416October 9, 2014View Original