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jmfayard commented on US library defunded after refusing to censor authors   theguardian.com/books/202... · Posted by u/bobnamob
salawat · 3 years ago
And who gets to decide who gets none? Because I assure you, the same people crying out now that it's "totally okay to cut out one 'side' of something", are the same people who in an environment with a non-agreeable majority insist on the sanctity of the minority position, and that the majority be forced to at least recognize and incorporate parts of it's viewpoint in terms of making concessions for the sake of representing everyone.

This is the structural issue that underpins the criticality of active non-optimization through not engaging in the active suppression of bad ideas, but in the reiteration that bad ideas exist, and here's why they are classed as bad ideas.

It may not be popular, but I'm not kicking the Neo-Nazis off the stage to satisfy some thought by an accidental current majority, because that would set the precedent where if everything I hold dear (equal opportunity, free access to information, aid for those in need, equality under the law, right to autonomy, safety from foreign influences, effective representation, a government constrained by a mandate it conduct business through due process, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness), heaven forbid, should it ever become relegated to the same "fringe" status by some horrible sequence of events, would be similarly revoked of it's time in the air, and rightly so, as I very clearly communicated how I wished to be treated by reserving the right to silence in a position of power. I have faith that no matter how much what I value gets attacked by bad ideas, it'll always tend to come out on top, and produce better outcomes in the long run.

I'm sorry. I'm not willing to sacrifice the moral or pragmatic high ground here, because someone can't relegate some rambling to the mental bit bucket, or has such a small mind as to be deluded into thinking that Liberty should by definition only empower things they like.

I may not agree at all with the repugnants, but I will fight to the death for them. Someone's gotta be there. If no one is, then we've already given in to might makes right. If there is at least one principled person though; one spark, there is still hope for the downtrodden and the damned, to whom I refuse to deny the right to the pursuit of their happiness; even if there is a status quo that renders the legs they need to achieve it incredibly unlikely. They have the right to champion their own cause.

jmfayard · 3 years ago
> And who gets to decide who gets none?

For example you look at the history and look whether something was more helpful than harmful (eg: fascist propaganda) or you look at the science and look whether something is a real theory or barely an hypothesis whose flaws are well-documented.

Basically, instead of saying "GOP says it's raining and Democrats says the weather is nice", you look at the facts and open your window.

> That would set the precedent where if everything I hold dear (...) become relegated to the same "fringe" status by some horrible sequence of events

That scenario exists merely in your slippery slope fallacy. Meanwhile, fascist propaganda has been proven to do huge damage on this very planet of Earth.

Real freedom follows the principle 'the freedom of each person stops where that of others begins'. In the US it seems to mean: 'I must be free to do everything including harming people. If I can't harm others, I'm not really free'

I don't believe that many people believes seriously in 'free' speech absolutism. Are you for abolishing libel laws? Prohibiting non-disclosure agreement? Because they hinder practical free speech more than hate speech laws.

jmfayard commented on US library defunded after refusing to censor authors   theguardian.com/books/202... · Posted by u/bobnamob
MichaelCollins · 3 years ago
One one hand, it seems impossible to run a library without curation. If nothing else, space is limited.

On the other hand, the American Librarian Association's Library Bill of Rights says that libraries should have books presenting all points of view on current and historical issues, neither proscribed nor removed because of partisan or doctrinal disapproval.

https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/librarybill

List of document interpreting those rights: https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/librarybill/interpre...

Some choice quotes from https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/librarybill/interpre... :

> Thus there is no justification for the exclusion of opinions deemed to be unpopular or offensive by some segments of society no matter how vocal or influential their opponents may be at any particular time in any particular place.

> A balanced collection need not and cannot contain an equal number of resources representing every possible viewpoint on every issue. A balanced collection should include the variety of views that surround any given issue.

It all seems broadly reasonable; a library need not and cannot give equal shelf space to both sides of every issue. Nevertheless, a library should not categorically exclude one side of an issue, no matter how offensive.

jmfayard · 3 years ago
Very few issues have both sides. Booleans yes, they have exactly two equally valid values. Coins also have both sides. But most issues are neither coins nor booleans.
jmfayard commented on US library defunded after refusing to censor authors   theguardian.com/books/202... · Posted by u/bobnamob
Defletter · 3 years ago
> 5 minutes for each is better than 10 for Hitler and none for anyone else.

But therein lies the assumption.

jmfayard · 3 years ago
Yep, assuming there are two equally valid positions for everything, because they have a two-party system, so there must be for every topic a GOP side and a Democrat side. Never mind that both parties have often similar bad policies on any topic, in which case you fool yourself believing to be objective while you are only repeating bipartisan dogma.

"Better than 10 for Hitler and none for anyone else". No, the critics of two-party systems don't want a single party system like Soviet Russia. They want multipartism.

And science has sometimes settled on only one theory. And in other times may have four different competing hypotheses. And other times just no idea whatsoever.

The positive side of both-sideism is that it's very easy. Count the number of sides being presented. Complain if it's not two. Being very lazy myself, I value that.

jmfayard commented on US library defunded after refusing to censor authors   theguardian.com/books/202... · Posted by u/bobnamob
DuskStar · 3 years ago
So this controversy started with people protesting pro-trans books. Did the library carry any anti-trans books, like Irreversible Damage? (As a nice big radioactive example)

If so, being able to point to things like that would (IMO) be a good political tool in situations like this. "We're neutral and carry both sides" goes over better than "we carry books with the correct opinions, how dare you ask us to remove them" - and the best response to bad speech is more speech anyways.

jmfayard · 3 years ago
> Objectivity means 5 minutes for the Jews and 5 minutes for Hitler

Jean Luc Godard thought he was making fun of idiots when he wrote that in an unrelated context, but he was actually describing a mainstream US dogma.

There is no reason why every topics must have "both sides". The number of valid sides can be 0, 1, 2, 3, 7 or 42.

jmfayard commented on US library defunded after refusing to censor authors   theguardian.com/books/202... · Posted by u/bobnamob
userbinator · 3 years ago
Residents ultimately voted 62% to 37% against a measure that would have raised property taxes by roughly $24 in order to fund the library, even as they approved similar measures to fund the fire department and road work.

Looking at it another way, they'd rather spend their money on things that probably affect their immediate lives more. It's certainly a lot easier to get whatever information you want online than it is to get your roads fixed.

jmfayard · 3 years ago
$24 is the cost of knowledge, but what is the cost of ignorance?
jmfayard commented on Phrases in computing that might need retiring   sicpers.info/2022/07/phra... · Posted by u/mpweiher
Banana699 · 3 years ago
What rules you used to infer my sex from the text of my comment?
jmfayard · 3 years ago
Apparently you are really curious about getting to the bottom of this so I did my research.

For me it's a vague intuition. But women are much better are recognizing "men talk" than I am.

So I asked one woman how she does it and here is her answer

> Men make comments without revealing their gender, but we can see the comments are coming from a man's point of view.

> How do we know?

> We have a lifetime of experience listening to a man's point of view.

> In other words, they show their asses much more than they think.

jmfayard commented on How to Stop Procrastinating on Your Goals by Using the “Seinfeld Strategy”   jamesclear.com/stop-procr... · Posted by u/felipelalli
hacym · 3 years ago
Strange. Countries everywhere have this. I don’t quite understand your rambling, but maybe it’s you who isn’t paying attention if you miss this?
jmfayard · 3 years ago
The spirit of capitalism comes from the US and has a religious background. Nowadays, many countries have a strong US cultural influence, no shit. I wish I was smart enough to make this up, but it all comes from this very famous book which summary I provided. Maybe reading books is not your thing, but I find it interesting.
jmfayard commented on Map showing birthplaces of "notable people" around the world   tjukanovt.github.io/notab... · Posted by u/jbesomi
thenoblesquid · 3 years ago
Does Pablo Escobar belong in that conversation? Or am I like many others who have just been exposed to the show Narcos which makes up the entirety of our Colombian experience?
jmfayard · 3 years ago
I like coffee a lot, so when Colombia comes up, coffee is the first thing that crosses my mind.

I understand that everyone consume different things :P

jmfayard commented on Phrases in computing that might need retiring   sicpers.info/2022/07/phra... · Posted by u/mpweiher
Banana699 · 3 years ago
Do you think women and girls don't want everyone's attention to orbit around them ?
jmfayard · 3 years ago
For women online in particular I'm pretty sure lots of them would rather enjoy less attention on them personally. Too much it not pleasant for _them_. I'm thinking in particular about friends who are content creators, minding her own business and receive comments on her look, insults, sexist comments, unsolicited dick pics, rape and death threats,... I'm sure sexism has nothing to do with that.

OK I'm done on this topic. Maybe there are a lots of women behind internet trolls and then I'm wrong, that's an empirical question. My comment was on "strongly disagree" vs "bullshitting"

jmfayard commented on Phrases in computing that might need retiring   sicpers.info/2022/07/phra... · Posted by u/mpweiher
Banana699 · 3 years ago
What are the sort of rules you use to derive sex from text? Can you state some?
jmfayard · 3 years ago
I can't do that in general. Certain attitudes OTOH are heavily gendered, like the psychology behind internet trolls who at the simplest level is that they want everyone's attention to orbit around them.

u/jmfayard

KarmaCake day373August 8, 2014View Original