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ivankra commented on Netherlands – Capital Growth Tax and Capital Gains Tax for Box 3   kpmg.com/xx/en/our-insigh... · Posted by u/ivankra
archagon · 16 days ago
I'm not sure why this is suddenly news. As far as I'm aware from my immigration inquiries, the Netherlands has had a "Box 3" unrealized capital gains tax for many years. This merely looks like an adjustment/improvement of the existing system, not some radical new policy.
ivankra · 16 days ago
They had essentially a wealth tax in Box 3 - your investments/savings are deemed to have a fixed fictional yield on which you pay income tax. Currently, 6.17% yield x 32% tax = 2% wealth tax. Hurts just a little bit, but it's a smooth, predictable cash flow.

They are replacing it with a much worse and untested economic policy - taxing unrealized capital gains every year. Not a big deal for relatively stable assets (real estate etc), but can explode in your face if you're into any risky volatile stuff (stocks, options, crypto) - they can crash next year, but your tax bill won't. Lack of liquidity can get you as well - you may have huge gains on paper, but for various reasons unable to sell in a reasonable timeframe and come up with equally huge amount of cash for the tax office - we're talking probably 30-50% tax here vs 2% under the old system. Double taxation if you have US passport - you're going to have to please both tax systems or pay double the tax.

The outcome I'd guess would be an exodus of the rich / upper middle class, and then they either scrap it or tighten further with exit taxes. Oh and they're also scrapping the coveted "30% ruling" for expats. Probably can forget about ever being able to FIRE in Netherlands.

ivankra commented on Netherlands – Capital Growth Tax and Capital Gains Tax for Box 3   kpmg.com/xx/en/our-insigh... · Posted by u/ivankra
askmike · 16 days ago
To summarize the current Dutch personal income system: besides income from salary and income from own business (these are taxed quite high), income from investments (stocks, passive investments, real estate excluding your first home) is taxed quite low. The amount is simply a percentage based on the value (as per the start of the year) of your investments.

So in the Dutch tax system there is no difference between realized and unrealized gain. As such it doesn't matter when you buy/sell your investments. It doesn't impact your tax burden. The effect you get is that everyone's wealth just slowly erodes away, just like with inflation (unless your yield outpaces that).

But with this new law that all might change.

ivankra · 16 days ago
It is essentially a wealth tax system. But I wouldn't call it low: currently, 6.17% fictional yield x 32% tax rate = 2% wealth tax rate - it is at the high end among countries with a wealth tax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_tax)
ivankra commented on Netherlands – Capital Growth Tax and Capital Gains Tax for Box 3   kpmg.com/xx/en/our-insigh... · Posted by u/ivankra
mbesto · 16 days ago
> I'm not aware of any other country that taxes them like that (besides wealth/exit taxes), so maybe they're the world's first here!

Real estate taxes.

> not the yearly increase in wealth.

Real estate taxes.

ivankra · 16 days ago
For real estate, yes, but it's a quite different type of asset with a stable value that (mostly) only goes up.

What about stocks or crypto (the assets this new law targets)? They can have wild value fluctuations in a year. If your crypto or startup's options have +1M paper gain this year and turn worthless the next year, is it fair to ask people to cough up some 300-500k of real cash in tax?

ivankra commented on Netherlands – Capital Growth Tax and Capital Gains Tax for Box 3   kpmg.com/xx/en/our-insigh... · Posted by u/ivankra
tschellenbach · 16 days ago
The title here mostly doesn't match the article right? Quote: "But unlike the capital growth tax, capital gains tax will, in principle, only be levied at the time of realisation. This is usually when the relevant asset is sold, but also when immovable property exits Box 3 for another reason, such as emigration."
ivankra · 16 days ago
Looks like they're coining a new legal term "Capital Growth Tax", under which they are going to tax unrealized capital gains. I'm not aware of any other country that taxes them like that (besides wealth/exit taxes), so maybe they're the world's first here!

Some countries have wealth taxes - but they are usually flat or scale with wealth, not the yearly increase in wealth. Note that currently NL does de facto have a wealth tax in Box 3 system - shares are presumed to have a fictional fixed yield of around 5-6% per year on which they charge you income tax, so it works out to about 2% wealth tax.

ivankra commented on Netherlands – Capital Growth Tax and Capital Gains Tax for Box 3   kpmg.com/xx/en/our-insigh... · Posted by u/ivankra
LZ_Khan · 16 days ago
well this will probably cause an exit of businesses
ivankra · 16 days ago
Businessmen - it's for personal income taxes. I don't think it affects corporate taxes. Yet.
ivankra commented on Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?   economist.com/finance-and... · Posted by u/harambae
itake · 17 days ago
yep. Trump added tariffs on physical goods, but there are no taxes on service imports.
ivankra · 17 days ago
Section 174's 15 years amortization rule on foreign R&D is kind of an indirect tax.
ivankra commented on Brimstone: ES2025 JavaScript engine written in Rust   github.com/Hans-Halverson... · Posted by u/ivankra
evilduck · a month ago
Because it pretty much only makes sense for Samsung TVs and smart appliances since it scores 3% on the benchmarks vs V8.

It's too big for most embedded devices, too slow for general computing, and if you can run something 25% the size of V8, you can probably just run V8. If for some reason that size and speed profile does fit your niche and you aren't Samsung wanting to use their own software, then Facebook's Hermes looks better in terms of licensing, speed and binary size and writing compatible JS for it isn't that hard.

ivankra · a month ago
Escargot is more spec-compliant than Hermes though.

Sometimes you can't run V8 or any JIT engine because policy or politics, and it's nice to have options.

ivankra commented on Brimstone: ES2025 JavaScript engine written in Rust   github.com/Hans-Halverson... · Posted by u/ivankra
maxloh · a month ago
Could you compare it with Boa? It is written in Rust too.

https://github.com/boa-dev/boa

ivankra · a month ago
I have some benchmark results here: https://ivankra.github.io/javascript-zoo/?v8=true

It's impressively compliant, considering it's just a one man project! Almost as fully featured as Boa, plus or minus a few things. And generally faster too, almost double the speed of Boa on some benchmarks.

u/ivankra

KarmaCake day205October 16, 2023View Original