hnreader998 (u/hnreader998)

hnreader998 commented on FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord wsj.com/articles/facebook... · Posted by u/mful

onion2k · 5 years ago

All this means is that you value your career over the political statement you want to make. The point you want to contribute isn't all that important to you. This is why it's worthwhile listening to people who speak out when there is a cost to themselves - they believe in what they're saying enough to sacrific something for it.

hnreader998 · 5 years ago

I don't disagree. My main point is that at a bay area tech company, the cost is one-sided, which drives company policies and philosophies, all while endlessly preaching about diversity.

hnreader998 commented on FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord wsj.com/articles/facebook... · Posted by u/mful

kelnos · 5 years ago

I don't think you're looking at it from the right perspective, or have the right base assumptions in place.

The thesis here is that current hiring practices are biased (often implicitly and unintentionally) against women and POC. Since removing implicit bias is exceedingly difficult, actively requiring hiring managers to hire more people from underrepresented groups is a way to put your thumb on the scale in order to equalize them.

I can understand how you'd see that as discrimination against white men, and if you squint at it in just the right way, it really seems like it is, but what it's really doing is attempting to reduce an unfair advantage that white men have. No, it's not perfect, and I'm sure occasionally a white male does legitimately get discriminated against. But that's a small price to pay to lift a ton of other people out of the status quo of discrimination they're usually stuck in.

hnreader998 · 5 years ago

I don't agree.

The fact is that women simply represent a small percentage of the overall workforce in engineering. The only way you can get parity in representation is to get parity in the underlying workforce. The only way to do that is to encourage women to pursue a career in this industry, but that's not something you can change overnight and I doubt companies care enough to invest in something that may pay off in 20 years.

I'm all for doing things that aren't discriminatory and removing unconscious biases in interviews, job descriptions, and whatever, but that will not move the needle. It's a supply issue.

Discrimination is discrimination, no matter how you want to dress it up, and it's never OK.

I'll add that some of my best colleagues have been women. I much rather not work in a sausage fest, but I also don't want to work in a world where active discrimination is supported.

hnreader998 commented on FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord wsj.com/articles/facebook... · Posted by u/mful

dahart · 5 years ago

What are you referring to?

hnreader998 · 5 years ago

I should have been more clear. Like someone else mentioned, these diversity (and inclusion) discussions are not related to discrimination laws and equal opportunity. They are always related to increasing diversity in the company by hiring more underrepresented people (previously this just meant women in eng but now it's been expanded to POC). In order to achieve this, companies are actively discriminating against non-minorities, which some may call positive discrimination. Regardless, it's discrimination nonetheless and it's very common yet somehow nobody cares.

hnreader998 commented on FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord wsj.com/articles/facebook... · Posted by u/mful

patorjk · 5 years ago

At 3 paragraphs (131 words), that was a really short article. However, I agree with the subheading: "Mark Zuckerberg says employees shouldn’t have to confront social issues in their day-to-day work unless they want to"

That sounds good to me. I've never had to talk about these kind of things at work. Are there work places where this is unavoidable?

hnreader998 · 5 years ago

It's even worse than unavoidable. My company has removed any kind of anonymous discussion/Q&A, which just fuels a mono culture.

You only get one-sided discussions because going against the grain will be career suicide.

hnreader998 commented on FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord wsj.com/articles/facebook... · Posted by u/mful

dahart · 5 years ago

Everyone has to discuss diversity at work because there are laws prohibiting discrimination, that's a good thing. Not everyone has to discuss politics at work.

hnreader998 · 5 years ago

Oddly, companies are actively and deliberately discriminating against race and gender in tech companies in the name of diversity and inclusion. It boggles my mind that none of them have been sued yet for these practices.