airlines may remove you from a flight if the removal is due to a behavior that is considered disruptive
…or if the weather changes and they need to reduce weight. On a CRJ this is quite common (which was the type of plane this incident occurred).
Readit Newsgreenbcj commented on Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly' list reuters.com/business/aero... · Posted by u/lxm
greenbcj commented on Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly' list reuters.com/business/aero... · Posted by u/lxm
> What else would you expect them to do?
How about...to not physically attack a paying customer who had done nothing wrong (and had medical patients to see, to boot) so that a bunch of airline staff could fly for free?
“airline staff could fly for free”
It’s not that simple. This was a crew being sent to operate another plane. If they can’t move the crew, that could potentially cancel several other flights, and affect hundreds of other passengers.
greenbcj commented on Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly' list reuters.com/business/aero... · Posted by u/lxm
He paid for a ticket, he was seated. Airline is in the wrong overbooking. Everything that happened after that is on them.
Refusing to deboard and getting injured isn't a smart idea in the real world.
Imagine this was any other industry. You can't rent your apartment complex to more people than can fit and have the police shoot their dog and flash bang their kids when they refuse to sleep under a bridge that night because occupancy rates are higher than you thought and you needed to evict them.
Yeah… it’s sort of like doctors routinely overbooking appointments, and you have to wait four hours after your scheduled time to see the doctor.
I wonder if the doctor on this plane did this as well?
greenbcj commented on Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly' list reuters.com/business/aero... · Posted by u/lxm
This is totally and completely wrong, legally.
They may deny boarding. This is the legal term even ("Denied boarding"). That is why they do it prior to boarding the aircraft. You will get "Denied Boarding compensation" (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/part-250)
Once they have taken your ticket, you have boarded, and have sat down, you may no longer be denied boarding due to oversale.
Heck, once they have taken your ticket and told you you can proceed to board, they can't remove you whether you've gotten on the plane or not.
They may only remove you "due to a safety, security, or health risk, or due to a behavior that is considered obscene, disruptive, or otherwise unlawful"
See, e.g., https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...
Scroll to "Can airlines involuntarily bump me after I have boarded the flight?"
I agree… Republic screwed up here in allowing the passengers to board before sorting out the crew seats.
But, would this passenger have acted any differently if they had to ask him to leave under one of the acceptable conditions? Based on his reasoning, I highly doubt it.
It’s not uncommon on the type of aircraft operated by Republic that after boarding, they need to vacate a few seats based on fuel requirements (changing weather). I’ve had times we taxi, then return to the gate to offload passengers because the wind changed directions. I’ve many times seen passengers get upset, but the system the airlines use to select passengers is fairly objective. Based on fare type, when you purchased, etc.
Also, from a legal perspective, once the airline asked him to leave, even if they broke the rules it’s still trespassing. If the airline asks me to leave, I’m not arguing. I leave and handle the situation with customer service. I’ve had this happen. And I’ve been “bumped” incorrectly before, and well compensated after.
Also… I agree with the airlines reasoning that they needed to move a crew. If they can’t position a crew, that’s 150 bumped passengers with a significant domino effect (potentially four or five doctors… that did the right thing and bought the appropriate fares) rather than just four.
greenbcj commented on Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly' list reuters.com/business/aero... · Posted by u/lxm
The airlines need to figure this out on their own. Commuter rail lines deal with much worse, and somehow don’t need a special list; instead, relying on the same criminal trespass laws the rest of us use.
And… to be fair, far more railroad conductors have been hurt or killed by passengers than airline employees.
Railroads solved this problem a number of ways, but one way was having their own law enforcement agencies. The airlines, which are far more profitable, instead get this service mostly subsidized by taxpayers, through local police almost always stationed at airports, air marshals provided by the FAA, and passenger screening by TSA.
greenbcj commented on Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly' list reuters.com/business/aero... · Posted by u/lxm
What about putting unruly airport staff on a similar list?
I trust everyone remembers a few years ago, when David Dao was dragged off a United flight for refusing to vacate a seat he had paid for [1].
> Dao, a pulmonologist and folk musician, refused to surrender his seat when requested because he needed to see patients the following day. Chicago Department of Aviation Security officers (ASO) were called to remove him from the plane; in the process, they struck Dao's face against an armrest, then pulled him, apparently unconscious, by his arms along the aircraft aisle past rows of onlooking passengers.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Express_Flight_3411_inc...
I side with the airline here.
What no one mentions, is that this guy bought a ticket where the fare rules clearly state your seat is conditional; it was a deeply discounted fare.
If I have something important where I need to be somewhere, I buy a fare that guarantees me a seat. It’s an option you select in nearly every reservation system I’ve used (including the airlines websites).
The airline was well within its rights. If he was a doctor, and it was that important, he should be buying a fare that reflects that and avoid these issues.
He bought the cheapest fare that clearly stated the rules where he would lose his seat under certain conditions, then acted indignant when there were consequences.
The airline asked him to leave, he refused. That’s trespassing, “plane” and simple.
When the police came, he still refused. They arrested him, and he still refused. I’m not really sure how else you remove any trespasser that refuses to comply, without some use of force.
I fly all the time, and I have to buy the more expensive fares because I’m an adult that has appointments. It would make me angry if the airline was prioritizing deeply discounted fares and bumping me instead because of someone’s self-important claims.
Need to be there at a certain time? Buy a real ticket.
greenbcj commented on Build your own “data lake” for reporting purposes tech.fretlink.com/build-y... · Posted by u/Signez
This seems more like “build your own data warehouse” than data lake.