feoren (u/feoren) - Readit News

feoren commented on Good EU regulations actuallygoodregulations.e... · Posted by u/saubeidl

Aaargh20318 · 10 hours ago

> “Cars must include modern life‑saving tech like automatic braking and lane‑keeping.”

I rarely drive my car. When I do, 99% of the time it's within a few kilometers of my house. I have no need for lane keeping or automatic braking in city traffic, it's barely moving to begin with.

My car is also getting old and will soon need replacing. Ten years ago you could buy a brand new small car for well under €10k. Sure, it didn't have all the bells and whistles but I have no need for those anyway. Nowadays, you're looking at €30k+ for a new, small car precisely because of the safety regulations, emission standards and the fact that it's practically impossible to buy a car with an ICE anymore.

I understand the need for these things for cars that are driven daily, but why do they have to apply to cars that are mainly used for short trips to the grocery store? It's making cars unaffordable for the vast majority of people.

feoren · 10 hours ago

Safety regulations are not why cars cost 3x more than 10 years ago. Emission standards have some impact, but the biggest cause is bog standard inflation and corporate greed.

feoren commented on Margin debt surges to record high advisorperspectives.com/d... · Posted by u/pera

bpt3 · 3 days ago

> And you don't acknowledge the actual definition, or you would have been asking about price elasticity, not what is or is not essential for human life. Plenty of people will give up Chinese takeout before they give up GPUs.

You just listed two examples of discretionary items (prepared food is generally not considered a consumer staple).

> The luxury car, because it's grandma's old classic that Tom has kept in good enough shape to drive to his job, and he doesn't know how he'll get there when it finally breaks down, but he doesn't really have a penchant for fancy food and gets by with some cheap staples he prepares at home.

You're 0 for 2. That's not a luxury car, unless Grandma had a love of rare exotics that he should probably sell to buy food and a reliable car.

> The trip to the casino, because Judy is getting evicted, and doesn't have any friends or family she can stay with, and won't survive the winter on the street, and hitting it big at Blackjack is unlikely, but desperate times call for desperate measures. And although she does sometimes take Tylenol for headaches, she's otherwise in good health and doesn't have any ongoing medicinal needs.

And now you're 0 for 3. Your earlier comments are making more sense.

> What are we doing? You're deciding what other people need for their lives?

Most humans understand what is essential to sustain human life and what is not. In fact, every functioning adult I've ever met does.

The implications of the fact that you don't can be left for you or other readers to decuce.

> Of course they do, because however they behave, they have an army of op-ed writers, sycophants, and apologists who spew out post-hoc justification for their behavior, and viola, their behavior turns out to have been rational all along.

> Meanwhile, if the poor (and we are always talking about the poor when we are talking about "essential") stubbornly show an unwillingness to stop purchasing some good that some economist has decided is "non-essential", they're villainized and called irrational. Many of them even have refrigerators!

Not remotely true.

> You choose now, in 2025, to deny that there's a class war? That's certainly a take.

Whether there is or isn't a class war is debatable, but the one you've concocted that is led by economists is certainly not happening.

feoren · 19 hours ago

> That's not a luxury car

So an "old classic" (I was thinking a Mercedes) stops being a luxury car as soon as a poor person inherits it? Do you see how nebulous these categories are? How easy it is to just move the line whenever it suits your argument?

> Whether there is or isn't a class war is debatable, but the one you've concocted that is led by economists is certainly not happening.

I'll give you an economist who led the charge: Donald Regan, Ronald Reagan's secretary of the treasury and chief of staff. This was back in a time when people felt they needed to come up with a plausible-sounding excuse to strip poor people of their rights and keep them stuck in a cycle poverty. The banner was "Reaganomics", or "Trickle-Down Economics". You're so incredulous that the discipline of economics has anything to do with a class war that was largely started and still fought under the name "Trickle-Down Economics"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Regan

feoren commented on Margin debt surges to record high advisorperspectives.com/d... · Posted by u/pera

pyrale · 3 days ago

> I do not have any definition of it

Fair enough.

> and neither do any of you

Is this a kind of linguistical scorched-earth policy? I would like to know, because if we're going to be dishonest, there's plenty of other words we could start claiming have no meaning, until no meaningful conversation can happen.

feoren · 2 days ago

You're right that I have a general issue with how people use words versus how they think they use words. Yes, there are plenty of words that have this problem. People reach for definitions as some sort of argument-ender, without realizing how much those definitions rely on what are essentially arbitrary categorizations by an arbitrary authority. Those are two other peeves of mine: bad categorization and arbitrary authority.

There is actually a theory behind all this, based largely on the critically important fact that all models are wrong, but some models are useful. But yes, I recognize the futility of trying to fight this war in comment-sized battles in tangentially related Hacker News threads.

> until no meaningful conversation can happen

I believe accepting "all models are wrong, but some models are useful" is in fact a prerequisite for meaningful conversation, because otherwise people simply aren't even arguing about the same thing. What appears to you as a "linguistical scorched-earth policy" is something I can trace logically from that statement. Most arguments are actually arguments about definitions and categories, and therefore useless. I am trying to get people to abandon the category of "essential vs. non-essential" because it, like so many others, is arbitrary.

feoren commented on AWS CEO says using AI to replace junior staff is 'Dumbest thing I've ever heard' theregister.com/2025/08/2... · Posted by u/JustExAWS

dang · 3 days ago

It is quite a putdown to tell someone else that if you wrote their program it would be 10 times shorter.

That's not in keeping with either the spirit of this site or its rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

feoren · 3 days ago

Fair: it was rude. Moderation is hard and I respect what you do. But it's also a sentiment several other comments expressed. It's the conversation we're having. Can we have any discussions of code quality without making assumptions about each others' code quality? I mean, yeah, I could probably have done better.

> "That would probably be 1000 line of Common Lisp." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44974495

> "Perhaps the issue is you were used to writing 200k lines of code. Most engineers would be agast at that." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44976074

> "200k lines of code is a failure state ... I'd not normally huff my own farts in public this obnoxiously, but I honestly feel it is useful for the "AI hater vs AI sucker" discussion to be honest about this type of emotion." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44976328

feoren commented on Margin debt surges to record high advisorperspectives.com/d... · Posted by u/pera

bpt3 · 3 days ago

> I do not recognize that. That is the point of my argument.

And my point is that you're going to continue to be frustrated and disappointed by refusing to use the same terminology for a topic as everyone else.

> A large portion of economics is rich people trying to justify their own greed as being moral.

Nope, but that view explains most of your reasoning.

> Classifying goods as "essential" vs. "non-essential" is a way of telling poor people what they're allowed to have, and always has been. A good goes from "non-essential" to "essential" only when rich people are worried they'll get guillotined if the poor don't have access to it.

Good lord. Which of these is more essential for human life? Food, or a luxury car? Basic medicine, or a trip to a casino? No one is stopping "poor people" from buying things from either category, but people clearly prioritize one over the other when funds are limited.

> I'm aware that it has a definition in terms of what people are able to stop purchasing when their income goes down, or how consumption relates to income levels in general, but the former is a problematic definition for many reasons, and the latter does not actually coincide particularly well with the categories of goods people list off when they think of "essential goods". Humans in real life just don't respond to changing conditions the same way the little econs in your head do; they way you've decided they "should".

So you do acknowledge the actual definition, you just refuse to accept it because you'd rather rage against the machine? Have fun with that.

> Ever heard that humans don't "behave logically"? Yeah, that's economists with overly simplified models being annoyed that (mostly) poor people don't act the way that they've decided poor people should act. See the trend?

Rich people also don't behave logically, for the record. It's almost like this class war you're describing is a figment of your imagination.

> Ask four economists write out a list of "essential goods" and you'll get five different lists. That is not how definitions work. Ask four mathematicians whether something is a Commutative Ring or not and they'll all agree. That's a definition. "Essential" does not have a definition. Its meaning shifts depending on which group the author of the Wall Street Journal op-ed you're reading wants to villainize this time.

Congratulations on your discovery that economics is not a hard science.

You already said that essential does have a widely agreed upon definition above, so the rest of this rant seems odd.

feoren · 3 days ago

> Which of these is more essential for human life? ... So you do acknowledge the actual definition ...

And you don't acknowledge the actual definition, or you would have been asking about price elasticity, not what is or is not essential for human life. Plenty of people will give up Chinese takeout before they give up GPUs.

> Food, or a luxury car?

The luxury car, because it's grandma's old classic that Tom has kept in good enough shape to drive to his job, and he doesn't know how he'll get there when it finally breaks down, but he doesn't really have a penchant for fancy food and gets by with some cheap staples he prepares at home.

> Basic medicine, or a trip to a casino?

The trip to the casino, because Judy is getting evicted, and doesn't have any friends or family she can stay with, and won't survive the winter on the street, and hitting it big at Blackjack is unlikely, but desperate times call for desperate measures. And although she does sometimes take Tylenol for headaches, she's otherwise in good health and doesn't have any ongoing medicinal needs.

What are we doing? You're deciding what other people need for their lives?

> Rich people also don't behave logically, for the record.

Of course they do, because however they behave, they have an army of op-ed writers, sycophants, and apologists who spew out post-hoc justification for their behavior, and viola, their behavior turns out to have been rational all along.

Meanwhile, if the poor (and we are always talking about the poor when we are talking about "essential") stubbornly show an unwillingness to stop purchasing some good that some economist has decided is "non-essential", they're villainized and called irrational. Many of them even have refrigerators!

> It's almost like this class war you're describing is a figment of your imagination.

You choose now, in 2025, to deny that there's a class war? That's certainly a take.

feoren commented on Margin debt surges to record high advisorperspectives.com/d... · Posted by u/pera

pyrale · 3 days ago

> If "essential" means whatever bdauvergne on Hacker News decides humans deserve to have in their lives, and nothing else, then sure, GPUs are non-essential.

You sure have a weird definition of it.

To make a quantitative claim, I'm not sure anyone would die immediately if Nvidia disappeared overnight, except maybe for a few traders. The potential long term casualties would likely be related to it possibly triggering a stock market crash, rather than first-order consequences of the company no longer delivering products.

Obviously, the disappearance of a company intimately related to logistics would be harder to mitigate.

> You don't get to pick and choose what other humans deserve

The crux of your confusion seems to be that you don't make a distinction between "deserve" and "need". Food and entertainment are both things everyone deserves, but only food is required for everyone to make it to the end of the month.

feoren · 3 days ago

The category of "food" in economics is vast and absolutely includes things that humans don't need to live. Nobody dies if they can't buy clothing, except in very extreme cases, yet clothing is generally considered "essential". Meanwhile, people do die because they can't get jobs and become homeless, and you need an internet connection to get a job, but internet access is very rarely considered "essential" (although I suspect this is changing).

Besides, the usual definition of "essential" in economics is more about price elasticity, how consistent demand is, how spending on the category changes as income changes, etc. But whatever your parameters for that definition are, if you actually measure these things you'll see things that surprise you, and most of your results are going to be artifacts of how you categorize things. Lots of entertainment shows low price elasticity. Should dried beans and rice be in the same "food" category as foie gras? Is a Disney+ subscription essential to a working single mother of young children? Is heroin essential to a heroin addict? Are opiates essential to someone in chronic pain? Is alcohol essential to an alcoholic? Some would literally die if it were suddenly unavailable!

The category is murky, nobody can agree on what is or is not essential, nor even what its definition is: low price elasticity? necessary for life? necessary for a fulfilling life? able to be temporarily deferred in a crisis? All of these result in different lists.

> You sure have a weird definition of it.

As I feel like I've made quite clear: I do not have any definition of it, and neither do any of you. So let's not make policy decisions and economic predictions based on what is or is not "essential", please. People want GPUs, and you'll find lots of people who are more willing to give up their clothing and restaurant food than their GPUs.

feoren commented on Margin debt surges to record high advisorperspectives.com/d... · Posted by u/pera

bpt3 · 3 days ago

Or you could recognize that "essential" has a meaning in economic/financial terms, but that would entirely deflate the ad hominem attack you launched to avoid acknowledging that the answer to his question is: "Not really, with a few possible exceptions in some edge cases."

There's absolutely a reason to differentiate between essential and non-essential goods when talking about the economy. Why do you think the US runs a huge food production surplus? Why do you think publicly traded stock sectors include consumer staples (essential goods) and consumer discretionary (non-essential goods and services)?

feoren · 3 days ago

> Or you could recognize that "essential" has a meaning in economic/financial terms

I do not recognize that. That is the point of my argument. A large portion of economics is rich people trying to justify their own greed as being moral. Classifying goods as "essential" vs. "non-essential" is a way of telling poor people what they're allowed to have, and always has been. A good goes from "non-essential" to "essential" only when rich people are worried they'll get guillotined if the poor don't have access to it.

I'm aware that it has a definition in terms of what people are able to stop purchasing when their income goes down, or how consumption relates to income levels in general, but the former is a problematic definition for many reasons, and the latter does not actually coincide particularly well with the categories of goods people list off when they think of "essential goods". Humans in real life just don't respond to changing conditions the same way the little econs in your head do; they way you've decided they "should".

Ever heard that humans don't "behave logically"? Yeah, that's economists with overly simplified models being annoyed that (mostly) poor people don't act the way that they've decided poor people should act. See the trend?

Ask four economists write out a list of "essential goods" and you'll get five different lists. That is not how definitions work. Ask four mathematicians whether something is a Commutative Ring or not and they'll all agree. That's a definition. "Essential" does not have a definition. Its meaning shifts depending on which group the author of the Wall Street Journal op-ed you're reading wants to villainize this time.

feoren commented on AWS CEO says using AI to replace junior staff is 'Dumbest thing I've ever heard' theregister.com/2025/08/2... · Posted by u/JustExAWS

brushfoot · 3 days ago

[flagged]

feoren · 3 days ago

> What makes you think I'm not "a developer who strongly values brevity and clarity"

Some pieces of evidence that make me think that:

1. The base rate of developers who write massively overly verbose code is about 99%, and there's not a ton of signal to deviate from that base rate other than the fact that you post on HN (probably a mild positive signal).

2. An LLM writes 80% of your code now, and my prior on LLM code output is that it's on par with a forgetful junior dev who writes very verbose code.

3. 200K lines of code is a lot. It just is. Again, without more signal, it's hard to deviate from the base rate of what 200K-line codebases look like in the wild. 99.5% of them are spaghettified messes with tons of copy-pasting and redundancy and code-by-numbers scaffolded code (and now, LLM output).

This is the state of software today. Keep in mind the bad programmers who make verbose spaghettified messes are completely convinced they're code-ninja geniuses; perhaps even more so than those who write clean and elegant code. You're allowed to write me off as an internet rando who doesn't know you, of course. To me, you're not you, you're every programmer who writes a 200k LOC B2B SaaS application and uses an LLM for 80% of their code, and the vast, vast majority of those people are -- well, not people who share my values. Not people who can code cleanly, concisely, and elegantly. You're a unicorn; cool beans.

Before you used LLMs, how often were you copy/pasting blocks of code (more than 1 line)? How often were you using "scaffolds" to create baseline codefiles that you then modified? How often were you copy/pasting code from Stack Overflow and other sources?

feoren commented on Margin debt surges to record high advisorperspectives.com/d... · Posted by u/pera

bdauvergne · 3 days ago

"everything depending on GPUs would quickly grind to a halt." is there any one thing essential depending on the existence of GPU processors ?

feoren · 3 days ago

The word "essential" is lifting your entire argument for you. If "essential" means whatever bdauvergne on Hacker News decides humans deserve to have in their lives, and nothing else, then sure, GPUs are non-essential. But that's not up to you. You don't get to pick and choose what other humans deserve, what they want, and what they are allowed to have. That's all "essential" has ever meant: whatever I, the author, whose Word is obviously Divine, think Other People deserve to have. Why even bother using that word when talking about the economy? It's meaningless. Get rid of it and your argument collapses. People want GPUs.

feoren commented on AWS CEO says using AI to replace junior staff is 'Dumbest thing I've ever heard' theregister.com/2025/08/2... · Posted by u/JustExAWS

va1a · 3 days ago

Is this meant to detract from their situation? These tech stacks are mainstream because so many use them... it's only natural that AI would be the best at writing code in contexts where it has the most available training data.

feoren · 3 days ago

> These tech stacks are mainstream because so many use them

That's a tautology. No, those tech stacks are mainstream because it is easy to get something that looks OK up and running quickly. That's it. That's what makes a framework go mainstream: can you download it and get something pretty on the screen quickly? Long-term maintenance and clarity is absolutely not a strong selection force for what goes mainstream, and in fact can be an opposing force, since achieving long-term clarity comes with tradeoffs that hinder the feeling of "going fast and breaking things" within the first hour of hearing about the framework. A framework being popular means it has optimized for inexperienced developers feeling fast early, which is literally a slightly negative signal for its quality.