By the way, are photographers rioting in the street? Because they should be too, I've not seen it but they should be?
Artists already knew this and photographers too, there were more photos and images available online for free or next to nothing, than you could ever imagine or possible consume. It didn't change much, people still did art and people still got hired and not much will change. People will still be involved in art and photos. For fun and for money.
I guarantee you there is a whole group of people who see using DALL-E to generate new interesting ideas as being a thing too, who see it as an opportunity. Similar to who Chess players are using AI to study new moves.
If it's your profession, yeah it might suck, but on the other hand, I choose to hire artists because I enjoy working with people and building something together, it's a whole different creative process and in my opinion, creates better products for the specific use case. I actually wouldn't mind sitting with artists who use AI to create things?
Because the copyright isn't the real problem. It's the AI. Heck when the AI looks at the art it scrambles the art and encodes it into Memory the same way YOU encode the art into your memory. Does that mean by looking at art you are copying it? Why don't other artists have a problem with you looking at art and copying it into your memory?
You're naive actually about how these things work, these things use statistics to draw pictures based on statistics, they don't understand anything, it's why when I use DALL-E, it makes some nice stuff, but when I look more closely it also does weird things like, has objects sticking out of peoples heads. So no it doesn't do the same thing, it doesn't "understand" anything. I would understand if I was asked to draw a picture of someone that it would be strange to have a wooden stake sticking out of their ass. DALL-E doesn't. Go and get it to draw you a photo of children playing, it will be quite a nightmare.
While this stuff is impressive, it's a very, very big leap to go from painting by numbers to understanding something and being creative in that way. I personally think it will be a fun and exciting time when this happens, but fundamentally, it's quite a different system.
I actually get the feeling as humans, we're also overlaying our own ego onto how great these creations we've created are without being practical and objective enough to actually figure out if these things are actually important.
Style, design, etc is more than just "having the image". Selection is important, for example musicians write thousands of songs and never actually record them. There is a time and a place for specific art to be deployed, consumed, displayed, I don't think this is going away either, "style" and having an eye for the correct imagery is not something that will be replaced anytime soon. Essentially, having infinite images also means making the right choice becomes harder, that will be a new trade in itself.
These days I struggle to watch a movie, there are just too many options, AI is only going to make this problem worse. We'll be drowning in shit.
Nothing is as simple as it seems.
From the perspective of psychology, I think the most salty people are those who don't do art, it's almost like people hope this is the end of people being able to freely express themselves. Kind of like the quest to crush artistic freedom is in progress.
No I'm saying many people are afraid enough such that they organized a law suit against AI. Something that never happened before. THAT is sufficient evidence in support of the fact that AI has surpassed certain limits and CAN replace certain occupations. THIS point is OBVIOUS and YOU know this.
Why are you delivering talking points to make me explain what's obvious?
>Art isn't really about money, it's about self-expression,
You have got to be joking. You realize art is a HUGE part of business right? Movies, Video Games, Websites, Comic books ALL ARE businesses that use art. I think it's gotten to a point where you're just grasping for concepts to defend a point and you're not realizing how obviously wrong these concepts are. Art is Categorically a business. It is also self-expression at the same time but you are delusional if you think it's not business.
>Artists already knew this and photographers too, there were more photos and images available online for free or next to nothing, than you could ever imagine or possible consume. It didn't change much, people still did art and people still got hired and not much will change. People will still be involved in art and photos. For fun and for money.
Photographers didn't riot for three reasons. First reason, it doesn't take much skill to be a good photographer. So it's not a huge thing when something takes it over because most people never invested much into it. For art there's huge investment into getting good at it.
Second Reason. The technology came too slowly. It's not as sudden as AI and art. Smart phones turning everyone into somewhat good photographers and even consumer cameras before that took several decades of progress and gradual improvement to be where we are at today. When something comes slowly people don't really react, JUST like how global warming will fuck the world up but it's so slow nobody can bring themselves to care.
Third Reason. AI is not actually replacing all forms of photography. AI is like art. People know it's made up. There's still actual demand for captured stills of reality AND that is a separate niche from captured made up stills that don't exist in reality.
>I guarantee you there is a whole group of people who see using DALL-E to generate new interesting ideas as being a thing too, who see it as an opportunity. Similar to who Chess players are using AI to study new moves.
Sure.
>If it's your profession, yeah it might suck, but on the other hand, I choose to hire artists because I enjoy working with people and building something together, it's a whole different creative process and in my opinion, creates better products for the specific use case. I actually wouldn't mind sitting with artists who use AI to create things?
Of course. But you see there's a difference here. In the past if I wanted a person to paint me some really high quality and completely original fantasy art, I'd dish out a lot of money because such a skill is hard to find. Now I can hire any person who just has a bit of design sense and HE can use AI to do 99% of the work at minimum wage. I get all the benefits of personal interaction while I reap way more rewards by paying lower wages. ART skill was expensive, The comradery of working with someone was and still is cheap. But now the world is changing and art is just as cheap as comradery.
>You're naive actually about how these things work, these things use statistics to draw pictures based on statistics, they don't understand anything, it's why when I use DALL-E, it makes some nice stuff, but when I look more closely it also does weird things like, has objects sticking out of peoples heads. So no it doesn't do the same thing, it doesn't "understand" anything. I would understand if I was asked to draw a picture of someone that it would be strange to have a wooden stake sticking out of their ass. DALL-E doesn't. Go and get it to draw you a photo of children playing, it will be quite a nightmare.
Bro. Most of the things these things draw ARE already better than anything you can do. It's better than the average human being at drawing already. You're pointing out flaws but even with those flaws it's STILL better than average.
That being said this is just DALL-E. Other Generative Models that are trained more thoroughly on specialized sets produce WAY better output. MidJourney for example.
>While this stuff is impressive, it's a very, very big leap to go from painting by numbers to understanding something and being creative in that way. I personally think it will be a fun and exciting time when this happens, but fundamentally, it's quite a different system.
Painting by numbers? Bro. This thing is CLEARLY not painting by the numbers. You give it a sentence DALL-E gives you SEVERAL variations that are on par with what a human would do in terms of creativity. Just go onto deviant art and it's all similar from the perspective of originality.
Lack of Creativity or "painting by the numbers" isn't the issue. The issue is translation accuracy. Some things are "off", hands are inaccurate, some things are misplaced. AI is already killing it in terms of creativity. The problem now is to fix these artifacts. Fixing artifacts is not in your words "a huge leap". Once those artifacts are fixed and these AI models generate pictures with pixel perfection it's over.
>I actually get the feeling as humans, we're also overlaying our own ego onto how great these creations we've created are without being practical and objective enough to actually figure out if these things are actually important.
This is cliche. You're repeating what everyone has been parroting all over HN that these AI's have limits, they aren't as good as humans, yadayadayada. What your saying is EASY to believe. It's a common trope and the deceptively obvious conclusion. It takes extra effort to get passed this bias and see the extent of AI. I'm not amazed because I'm just taking the easiest conclusion. No. I'm amazed because I took steps to overcome my bias.
Think of it this way. You know of the turing test? For the longest time and for most of my life this test: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Turing_test was basically the standard test to see if something was more or less an actual intelligence and self aware. It was quite obvious to most people that this test was virtually impossible for an AI to pass and if an AI passed it, it's more or less a self aware intelligent being.
Yeah we just rocketed passed this test. LLM's regularly can beat this test, TRIVIALLY. But then there's a whole bunch of clones with your outlook. You guys move the bar higher and higher everytime a milestone is hit. Beating that test would be impressive in the past, but now that something actually beat it, it isn't sufficiently impressive anymore. You unconsciously place the bar higher without realizing and begin nitpicking and magnifying the little issues AI still has. You guys will forever think there's lightyears to go before AI matches human intelligence no matter how many turing type tests AI surpasses.
>Style, design, etc is more than just "having the image". Selection is important, for example musicians write thousands of songs and never actually record them. There is a time and a place for specific art to be deployed, consumed, displayed, I don't think this is going away either, "style" and having an eye for the correct imagery is not something that will be replaced anytime soon. Essentially, having infinite images also means making the right choice becomes harder, that will be a new trade in itself.
You think these models will only output pixel?. It can output anything that can be described in a natural language. Be it English, pixels or HTML styled with CSS. That's the first part. The second part is, it takes 100000x less talent to SELECT something that was ALREADY created then it does to CREATE something that didn't exist. EVEN when you have a lot of selection. You want proof? The internet and amazon has INCREASED my shopping selection choices by a huge magnitude. You still don't see me paying 200k to an expert chooser to choose for me what to buy. Why? Because selecting these things will be EASY.
Previously you pay 200k to each of 5 artists to do some art job. Now you pay one person minimum wage to do AI to do the same thing. That's 4 people with no job and one person being paid minimum wage. That's the future.
By the way, are photographers rioting in the street? Because they should be too, I've not seen it but they should be?
Artists already knew this and photographers too, there were more photos and images available online for free or next to nothing, than you could ever imagine or possible consume. It didn't change much, people still did art and people still got hired and not much will change. People will still be involved in art and photos. For fun and for money.
I guarantee you there is a whole group of people who see using DALL-E to generate new interesting ideas as being a thing too, who see it as an opportunity. Similar to who Chess players are using AI to study new moves.
If it's your profession, yeah it might suck, but on the other hand, I choose to hire artists because I enjoy working with people and building something together, it's a whole different creative process and in my opinion, creates better products for the specific use case. I actually wouldn't mind sitting with artists who use AI to create things?
Because the copyright isn't the real problem. It's the AI. Heck when the AI looks at the art it scrambles the art and encodes it into Memory the same way YOU encode the art into your memory. Does that mean by looking at art you are copying it? Why don't other artists have a problem with you looking at art and copying it into your memory?
You're naive actually about how these things work, these things use statistics to draw pictures based on statistics, they don't understand anything, it's why when I use DALL-E, it makes some nice stuff, but when I look more closely it also does weird things like, has objects sticking out of peoples heads. So no it doesn't do the same thing, it doesn't "understand" anything. I would understand if I was asked to draw a picture of someone that it would be strange to have a wooden stake sticking out of their ass. DALL-E doesn't. Go and get it to draw you a photo of children playing, it will be quite a nightmare.
While this stuff is impressive, it's a very, very big leap to go from painting by numbers to understanding something and being creative in that way. I personally think it will be a fun and exciting time when this happens, but fundamentally, it's quite a different system.
I actually get the feeling as humans, we're also overlaying our own ego onto how great these creations we've created are without being practical and objective enough to actually figure out if these things are actually important.
Style, design, etc is more than just "having the image". Selection is important, for example musicians write thousands of songs and never actually record them. There is a time and a place for specific art to be deployed, consumed, displayed, I don't think this is going away either, "style" and having an eye for the correct imagery is not something that will be replaced anytime soon. Essentially, having infinite images also means making the right choice becomes harder, that will be a new trade in itself.
These days I struggle to watch a movie, there are just too many options, AI is only going to make this problem worse. We'll be drowning in shit.
Nothing is as simple as it seems.
From the perspective of psychology, I think the most salty people are those who don't do art, it's almost like people hope this is the end of people being able to freely express themselves. Kind of like the quest to crush artistic freedom is in progress.
>These days I struggle to watch a movie, there are just too many options, AI is only going to make this problem worse. We'll be drowning in shit. Holy shit. Now you need to hire a guy to choose the movie for you. Pay him a movie directors wage. Clearly this choosing stuff is so hard we need experts! No I'm kidding. Let's be honest, choosing things is easy.
>Nothing is as simple as it seems.
The irony here is that your conclusion is the simpler one. It's the easy way out. People are optimistic by default and pessimism is actually the harder path because it's so much uglier to admit. The truth is actually more inline with pessimism as the world is more or less built on competitive darwinian fundamentals with cooperation existing only as a side effect. The brain paints a delusional reality in such a way so that you don't get constantly scared or depressed. If you find your thoughts always being overly optimistic there's a good chance you're biased.
>From the perspective of psychology, I think the most salty people are those who don't do art, it's almost like people hope this is the end of people being able to freely express themselves. Kind of like the quest to crush artistic freedom is in progress.
I look at this statement and there are things about it that are obviously wrong. And I wonder how come you're blind to it? Like you're obviously referring to me somewhat. But that's not even the issue.
The most salty people are the people who entered into a lawsuit. You have to be really fucking salty to spend the time and the effort to do that. Who's in the lawsuit? Not me, I don't give a shit about artists. Let me spell it out: Artists are suing AI companies because Artists are the ones that are the most SALTY. That's not even a huge revelation. The revelation is how this came to be NOT obvious to a pretty smart person like you?
You use psychology to imply I'm the one out of touch? Take a look in the mirror.
A better analogy for this is oil companies and climate change pre 2000s. I'm the environmentalist saying something is fucked up here. You're oil baron. You're the person in Software who's in denial about how Software and ML is about to make some drastic and extremely negative changes to the way the world works. I can assure you oil barons couldn't face the cold hard truth and grasped at every positive angle they could get there hands on to build a universe where they weren't responsible for harming the world. They couldn't face the reality. Can you.
Can you face the truth that the artist working for your company is about to become useless. Can you fire him and tell him that to his face? No. You need a narrative. What about your own skills as a software engineer. Are you able to face a reality where your job is basically within 10-20 years going to be phased out for AIs? Likely not. So consider the possibility that you're the one that's biased and you're the one with the overly rosy outlook.