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david_l_lin commented on A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay   astralcodexten.com/p/defy... · Posted by u/vwoolf
margalabargala · 2 years ago
Your first point seems wrong.

> cannot be true unless this strain is also capable of creating and tolerating environments with low pH

Whether it can tolerate low pH environments is not particularly related to whether it creates low pH environments. If it's agnostic to pH levels around that range, then it can inhabit that niche whether or not there is acid being secreted.

david_l_lin · 2 years ago
I should clarify: there’s some more details to why S mutans actually requires low pH. The correct term wouldn’t be “tolerate low pH” but rather “requires low pH” for its stable colonization.

S mutans creates incipient lesions by making acid, incipient lesions are micro environments where the low pH that causes enamel decay is determined by the biofilm on its surface. S mutans cannot thrive in environments with neutral or high pH. the existing community (including other Streptococcus species) create local alkaline environment via multiple metabolic pathways, including the most well studied and prevalent arginine deiminase system. A “normal” healthy community antagonizes S mutans by maintaining a normal pH in saliva and the tooth surface, preventing stable colonization by S mutans.

Without acid production, S mutans cannot stably colonize. and is readily outcompeted by the existing community. Any novel strains of S mutans to “compete for the same niche” will suffer the same weakness unless they create acid. but if this “probiotic” also creates acid, then by definition it also causes cavities.

edit: adding citation https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2217/fmb-2018-0043

david_l_lin commented on A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay   astralcodexten.com/p/defy... · Posted by u/vwoolf
david_l_lin · 2 years ago
This story has been around for far too long and evidence is unbelievably weak, and the claims border on fraudulent.

1. The claim that this strain outcompetes the same S mutans from occupying the same niche cannot be true unless this strain is also capable of creating and tolerating environments with low pH. By definition if it creates acid to the same degree it will also cause cavities.

2. Single applications are insufficient to cause any persistent colonization. Even multiple daily applications of oral probiotics don’t lead to colonization. Oral probiotics function primarily through bacteriocins, not through colonization (except in very rare cases). This is because the existing microbiome is incredibly difficult to outcompete. The community in your mouth has evolved for as long as you have lived, and in some ways was shaped for generations before as it’s technically inherited from your ancestors.

3. S mutans is not the only species that causes cavities. S sobrinus, S wiggsiae, B dentium, about a dozen other acidogenic species also cause cavities.

Source: I’m a cofounder at Bristle Health, the oral microbiome company.

david_l_lin commented on Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm   salon.com/2023/03/16/heal... · Posted by u/gjsman-1000
heyoni · 2 years ago
You guys have anything on the market yet?
david_l_lin · 2 years ago
Indeed we do! We have an oral microbiome test you can find here: https://www.bristlehealth.com/pages/products

and our first probiotic here: https://www.bristlehealth.com/pages/probiotic

All the species in the probiotic have been clinically studied with evidence that supports improvement in the oral microbiome and reduction of oral disease. Although, for transparency, the mechanism of action of some of the probiotics is still unclear, and we're working on figuring that out to improve oral probiotics and products in the future.

david_l_lin commented on Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm   salon.com/2023/03/16/heal... · Posted by u/gjsman-1000
Natsu · 2 years ago
Tooth decay is caused by acid produced by bacteria.

It's too bad we can't displace the bacteria themselves instead of working downstream from that.

david_l_lin · 2 years ago
Except that we can! The oral microbiome can be modulated to get exactly what you’re asking: remove pathogens that are good at creating acid and replacing them with ones that are good at remineralizing.

Shameless plug for my company (Bristle Health) that is trying to do exactly that via oral microbiome testing and personalized recommendations and products to improve.

david_l_lin commented on Salivary microbiome reveals a dysbiotic schizophrenia-associated microbiota   nature.com/articles/s4153... · Posted by u/bmau5
cjbgkagh · 3 years ago
Are Clinical High Risk people medicated? Because surely the medicine would affect microbiota especially in the mouth.
david_l_lin · 3 years ago
Majority were not on medication.

>Eighty-five FES patients and 35 CHR subjects were psychotropic medication naïve and all participants were free of substance abuse, suicidal ideation, and unstable medical illness.

david_l_lin commented on Salivary microbiome reveals a dysbiotic schizophrenia-associated microbiota   nature.com/articles/s4153... · Posted by u/bmau5
david_l_lin · 3 years ago
Super interesting study! Other studies also associated the oral microbiome with cognitive health, like depression and Alzheimer's, but this is an interesting finding.

>H2S-producing bacteria exhibited disease-stage-specific enrichment and could be potential diagnostic biomarkers

This would suggest that people with bad breath may have higher risk of schizophrenia? Or maybe the reverse? I also wonder if this was controlled for oral hygiene routines and oral health in general? I would assume people with uncontrolled schizophrenia have worse oral health, which may be a factor?

david_l_lin commented on Bacteria in the oral microbiome can cause IBD   bristlehealth.com/post/ca... · Posted by u/bmau5
david_l_lin · 3 years ago
In the last 5 years or so, research has shown tight associations between specific pathogens in the mouth and inflammation throughout the body.

Fusobacterium nucleatum and colorectal tumors, Porphyromonas gingivalis and tangles in the brain, Prevotella intermedia and rheumatoid arthritis, the list goes on.

It might be no surprise that you are what you eat, and you eat 100 billion bacteria every day via swallowing your saliva. The gut microbiome gets a lot of traction on HN for its associations with... well anything, but the oral microbiome is relatively ignored.

At Bristle, I'm hoping we can shed some light on the importance of the oral microbiome, and people will eventually stop collecting their poop, and just collect their spit.

david_l_lin commented on Diet and its effects on the gut biome in the pathophysiology of mental disorders   nature.com/articles/s4139... · Posted by u/flashfaffe2
jklinger410 · 3 years ago
I have a chicken and egg issue with microbiome stuff. Does your microbiome look different because you are suffering from an issue, or does your microbiome looking different cause the issue.

Kind of like when an auto-immune disorder is causing inflammation. You can treat the inflammation, but you aren't treating the real problem.

david_l_lin · 3 years ago
well, for the most part in healthcare we treat symptoms not causes.

cavities caused by acid producing bacteria? drill and fill

gum disease caused by oral dysbiosis? bone and gum grafts

diabetes from autoimmunity? insulin

high cholesterol from… anything? statins

david_l_lin commented on Diet and its effects on the gut biome in the pathophysiology of mental disorders   nature.com/articles/s4139... · Posted by u/flashfaffe2
david_l_lin · 3 years ago
It's interesting that we've become so obsessed with the gut microbiome even though stool only captures a tiny fraction of the composition of the gut.

Similarly, the salivary oral microbiome has also been correlated with mental disorders, cognitive health, is modulated by diet, and plays a major role in systemic health. And saliva is objectively easier to collect. Instead of jumping straight into collecting poop, we should be collecting our spit instead!

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-022-01922-0https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-94498-6

david_l_lin commented on Microrobots can brush and floss teeth in a proof-of-concept study   penntoday.upenn.edu/news/... · Posted by u/geox
BolexNOLA · 3 years ago
I would like to think that most dentists like their patients to have healthy, cared for teeth and that they play in important role in it. I would not like to think that most of them actually work to our detriment so that they can do more expensive, painful procedures on our mouths and teeth. That’s a pretty cynical outlook I’d need to see evidence for.
david_l_lin · 3 years ago
All you need to do is visit the dentistry reddit sub and look at threads like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dentistry/comments/vnv25a/how_is_he.... They all operate on "production" because billing is top priority.

u/david_l_lin

KarmaCake day338September 23, 2020
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cofounder at Bristle
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