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chrstphrknwtn commented on Future Ford's May Detect Speeding and Report You to the Cops   motorauthority.com/news/1... · Posted by u/rmason
ryandrake · a year ago
> US drivers get away with murder in terms of undertaking, tailgating, camping in fast lanes under the speed limit, not to mention driving vehicles that are in such states of disrepair that it's a miracle the drivers get anywhere.

Great, so why aren't those things ever candidates for this kind of automated enforcement? Why is it always "speeding"? In addition to the ones you listed, there are so many distractions now, too. Take a ride down any US freeway as a passenger in some kind of elevated vehicle (like a double decker bus) such that you can see down into people's cars: Probably 1/2 or more are totally out of it, distracted zombies scrolling on their phones. Nobody is calling for this to be cracked down on either.

It's always just "speeding". Like if we solve that, we're done.

chrstphrknwtn · a year ago
Agree 100%.
chrstphrknwtn commented on Future Ford's May Detect Speeding and Report You to the Cops   motorauthority.com/news/1... · Posted by u/rmason
KennyBlanken · a year ago
Roadway injuries and deaths are both leading causes for many demographics and the US has a death rate three times Canada's, per capita. More than 4x the UK's.

I'd call that extremely dangerous...

chrstphrknwtn · a year ago
And 70% of those deaths are not considering "speeding-related"[1].

Focussing on speeding seems to ignore that there are other serious issues that contribute to the outsized danger on US roads.

[1] https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/motor-vehicle-safe...

chrstphrknwtn commented on Future Ford's May Detect Speeding and Report You to the Cops   motorauthority.com/news/1... · Posted by u/rmason
giraffe_lady · a year ago
The risk of pedestrian death in a collision goes from about 10% at 25mph to over 50% at 40mph, and this level of speeding is absolutely normal in the american city I live in.

A pedestrian dying because of a driver's decision to speed in this way is predictable, absolutely expected. Shit I doubt my odds with a golf club at a party are anywhere near 50%. So why is one violence and the other not? I think only because we have decided it is not. But again that decision is exactly what I'm challenging. Calling it silly is not a convincing argument to me.

chrstphrknwtn · a year ago
Those things aren't really equivalent though. The percentage of pedestrian deaths in a collision at given speeds is starting from a 100% rate of incidence. So whilst it's predictable, it's not necessarily probable. How many pedestrians is a driver actually likely to hit driving at 40mph? Generally speaking, zero. How many people is a lunatic swinging golf club likely to hit in a crowded club, quite a lot more than zero.

Nevertheless, I appreciate your point. I was thinking only of speeding on highways. Speeding is an issue and shouldn't be minimised.

chrstphrknwtn commented on Future Ford's May Detect Speeding and Report You to the Cops   motorauthority.com/news/1... · Posted by u/rmason
tomgp · a year ago
How many people would need to die each year for it to be considered extremely dangerous? Literal wars have been started over fewer deaths than the US road network racks up in a year. OK I’m being facetious but the extent to which we’ve normalised 40,000+ deaths a year really is remarkable, can you imagine the reaction if smart phones killed that many?
chrstphrknwtn · a year ago
Sure, it's problem.

But speeding-related fatalities accounted for 30% of traffic fatalities in the US for 2022. Which implies there are plenty of other issues, such that I think saying "speeding is violence" doesn't really do anything to address the problem.

chrstphrknwtn commented on Future Ford's May Detect Speeding and Report You to the Cops   motorauthority.com/news/1... · Posted by u/rmason
browningstreet · a year ago
In the last few days I've taken a few Waymo's around SF and driven back and forth on I-80.

I-80 is definitely a hotbed of aggressively dangerous driving and the violent use of vehicles against others that aren't driving how you want them to (and I'm a fast driver).

Have those two experiences very much back to back, I joked about how once we get robo-taxis we'll never go back. Human drivers are dangerous enough of the time -- it's not like I've ever driven on I-80 and NOT seen crazy, pants- staining driving. It's every mile or two of the whole stretch.

(Waymo feels so much more mature and pleasant than the last FSD Beta I tested.. Elon should be embarassed.)

chrstphrknwtn · a year ago
I'd argue that the main issue on US highways is a lack of discipline.

US drivers get away with murder in terms of undertaking, tailgating, camping in fast lanes under the speed limit, not to mention driving vehicles that are in such states of disrepair that it's a miracle the drivers get anywhere.

I'm way more relaxed cruising at 160km/h in Europe than literally any stretch of the I-5.

chrstphrknwtn commented on Future Ford's May Detect Speeding and Report You to the Cops   motorauthority.com/news/1... · Posted by u/rmason
giraffe_lady · a year ago
If I go in a crowded night club and start swinging a golf club around, but not at any specific individual, is the end result violence? Was my action violent?

To me it's an extremely clear yes. The only reason I can see why we view this differently is just because we've all agreed this doesn't apply to choices made while driving. But I can't see why that would be the case.

chrstphrknwtn · a year ago
On your first point, that sounds like violence to me, sure. It's almost guaranteed to cause harm, and the club swinger probably knows that.

On your second point, the likelihood that speeding will cause actual harm to another person is vastly lower, and certainly not an outcome expected or intended by drivers generally speaking. Seems silly to call that "violence" when we can just call it irresponsible, negligent, etc.

colonelspace commented on Future Ford's May Detect Speeding and Report You to the Cops   motorauthority.com/news/1... · Posted by u/rmason
shkkmo · a year ago
> "Traffic violence" implies deliberate acts intended to cause harm

Not really. The violence of traffic crashes increases as the speed increases.

colonelspace · a year ago
Without devolving into a discussion of semantics too much, violence really does imply some intent to harm another person, or people.

If I drive at ~200km/h on my way from Berlin to Munich, am I "being violent"?

chrstphrknwtn commented on Future Ford's May Detect Speeding and Report You to the Cops   motorauthority.com/news/1... · Posted by u/rmason
superkuh · a year ago
Of the subset of unintentional crashes it's hard to say how many of them are from irresponsible driving behavior. But I do know that the vast majority of people driving around me on highways/freeways/etc do not obey the speed limit and instead just sort of travel in high speed flocks. Like they don't care that they're operating extremely dangerous vehicles doing an extremely dangerous thing. This is not intent to cause harm but more like playing catch with a loaded firearm.
chrstphrknwtn · a year ago
I agree say this is generally true in the United States, where driving discipline on highways is basically non-existent. Although I would stop short of calling it "extremely dangerous".
chrstphrknwtn commented on Future Ford's May Detect Speeding and Report You to the Cops   motorauthority.com/news/1... · Posted by u/rmason
mdanger007 · a year ago
You've never seen aggressively dangerous driving? Must be nice living there.
chrstphrknwtn · a year ago
Sure, but I'm not sure "aggressively dangerous driving" is broadly equivalent to violence, or should be described as such.

At any rate, I'm not attempting to say traffic fatalities and injuries aren't a problem.

chrstphrknwtn commented on Future Ford's May Detect Speeding and Report You to the Cops   motorauthority.com/news/1... · Posted by u/rmason
o11c · a year ago
> knows what the speed limit is

In my experience, it knows what the speed limit might have been at some time on some road. Not necessarily the one I'm actually on or at the current time.

chrstphrknwtn · a year ago
Yeah, having driven long distances in all kinds of rental cars with speed limit information shown on the dashboard, the car "knows" the speed limit accurately about 50% of the time.

u/chrstphrknwtn

KarmaCake day431April 2, 2014View Original