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attila-lendvai commented on Nature's many attempts to evolve a Nostr   newsletter.squishy.comput... · Posted by u/fiatjaf
noman-land · 3 days ago
I asked this in another comment, but why aren't we using DHTs for peer discovery for social apps? The ratio mechanic provides incentives in the file sharing realm, but you need different incentives for the threaded chat realm.
attila-lendvai · 3 days ago
check out https://ethswarm.org

it's only the storage infra, though. but it stores content, nodes, and messages in the same DHT.

attila-lendvai commented on Nature's many attempts to evolve a Nostr   newsletter.squishy.comput... · Posted by u/fiatjaf
AuthAuth · 4 days ago
One could easily test the author's conviction on "rejecting content as they please" by spamming them with horrible stuff for a few months and the author would learn why 100% of content moderation should not be pushed on the individual user.
attila-lendvai · 3 days ago
i think you cannot spam someone's screen in nostr. they just unsubscribe from your key, if they ever were subscribed.

DoS on the infra is a different question, though.

attila-lendvai commented on Nature's many attempts to evolve a Nostr   newsletter.squishy.comput... · Posted by u/fiatjaf
bflesch · 4 days ago
I feel projects like nostr ignore inherent human requirements for social networks. This is a striking quote from their landing page:

"Nostr doesn't subscribe to political ideals of "free speech" — it simply recognizes that different people have different morals and preferences and each server, being privately owned, can follow their own criteria for rejecting content as they please and users are free to choose what to read and from where."

Their statement underlines the fact that nostr is a stream of dirty sewage and they want users to submit their valuable user-created content into this sewage. Then they turn around and say that the sewage is not a problem because you can filter it and even use it as drinking water later on!

I don't see how a person with real-life social rank and social capital will sign up to something like this, or be willing to maintain a technical interface to the "stream of different morals".

You'd need to put immense trust into the "filtering" process so that you are not involuntarily exposed to rubbish. And on the other hand your valuable user-generated content could be showing up in another context with your name attached, directly next to some extremely degenerate trash created by "people with different morals" as nostr calls it. Advertisers have big problems when their brands are advertised next to problematic topics, it is the same with people.

How can you rationalize this as a good value proposition? People want to impress an audience with their user-generated content. And you only want to impress someone you look up to.

If I could sign up to a social network of people who can put a nail into the wall, take a daily shower, brush their teeth, and live in a democratic country I would immediately do so. If I want to get exposed to "different morals" I just open any of the other existing social networks. Until then I'm stuck here :P

attila-lendvai · 3 days ago
i'm booted from facebook. does that really mean that i have no "real-life social rank" anymore?

in fact, the further mainstream social networks evolve, the more social rank it started to bring not to be there, and/or having been booted. it's early on this path, but i started to notice the signs.

attila-lendvai commented on Nature's many attempts to evolve a Nostr   newsletter.squishy.comput... · Posted by u/fiatjaf
pjc50 · 3 days ago
There is no European ID. Please specify individual countries (I think this is just Estonia at the moment?)
attila-lendvai · 3 days ago
has been the case for Hungarian ID cards for a decade now, but it was never really used, except maybe by burorats in gov offices to access their systems.

but no one understands it, including the people who need to issue new signing keys.

it didn't get anywhere really. it was just a good opportunity for a lot of taxpayer money to... "lose its taxpayer money nature" (actual phrase by an actual politician when cornered by questions).

and now they are "moving on" to an app that must be installed on your phone to access more and more services.

ID2030 is roaring on worldwide... soon mandatory iris scans, vaccine implants, and who knows when they will try to roll out mandatory brain implants against thought crimes.

the more i think about the sign of the beast (as an atheist), the more sense it makes.

attila-lendvai commented on Nature's many attempts to evolve a Nostr   newsletter.squishy.comput... · Posted by u/fiatjaf
vintermann · 3 days ago
Spam and content moderation are basically the same thing. In both cases it's hiding things from the user that the user didn't ask for or want to see.

Unless by spam you mean denial of service attacks. Which should probably be a point of its own anyway. It's the main killer of the decentralized internet currently.

attila-lendvai · 3 days ago
the extra curve with spam is that it must be made economically expensive for the spammer. spam is more of a DoS attack than just content i'm not interested in.
attila-lendvai commented on Nature's many attempts to evolve a Nostr   newsletter.squishy.comput... · Posted by u/fiatjaf
nunobrito · 4 days ago
You are correct that it existed well before, the difference is that it was always complicated to use. Heck, we have been able to send PGP emails since almost 30 years ago.

The innovative concept is that npub/nsec along with sending notes is trivially simple. The content does not need to encrypted, there is a huge value on publishing clear text messages that are crypto-verifiable. You also didn't had this feature on groove and others. I'd argue that NOSTR has indeed pioneered them into mainstream.

attila-lendvai · 3 days ago
PGP can also sign clear text messages.
attila-lendvai commented on Nature's many attempts to evolve a Nostr   newsletter.squishy.comput... · Posted by u/fiatjaf
nunobrito · 3 days ago
The concept of public library are the "super-relays", which are always available and basically accept any note you send their way.

It is "kind of" like reinventing email with PGP. Main difference is that you can choose to send the message in plain text with a cryptographic signature that proves it was sent from you or full encrypted like PGP.

There is still (in my opinion) a disadvantage when compared to PGP: key rotation. Once you create a key pair in NOSTR it is your identity forever, whereas in PGP you have mechanisms to declare a key obsolete and generate a new one.

In overall PGP failed over the last 30 years, sharing public keys with other people was always the biggest difficulty for real adoption. With NOSTR this process is kind of solved but we are yet to see about adoption.

attila-lendvai · 3 days ago
signing and encryption are separate operations also in PGP.

and yes, one of the hardest parts of this domain is the implementation of the web of trust (key management).

attila-lendvai commented on The programmers who live in Flatland   blog.redplanetlabs.com/20... · Posted by u/winkywooster
bccdee · 12 days ago
That's a bad thing, though. You should not be `eval`-ing your config file, much less untrusted messages.
attila-lendvai · 12 days ago
you don't need to call eval for the usual config file setup, only read.

(but you often get something much better when config files are plain lisp code; i.e. they are eval'ed, assuming that the threat model allows it)

attila-lendvai commented on The programmers who live in Flatland   blog.redplanetlabs.com/20... · Posted by u/winkywooster
philipwhiuk · 12 days ago
You're assuming something better on merit wouldn't make more money as a result, and I'm questioning the actual merits as a result
attila-lendvai · 12 days ago
the silent assumption in both of your perspectives is that the current monetary system is an even playing field when it comes to this context (corporations and their programmers)
attila-lendvai commented on The programmers who live in Flatland   blog.redplanetlabs.com/20... · Posted by u/winkywooster
chromaton · 12 days ago
Lisp has been around for 65 years (not 50 as in the author believes), and is one of the very first high-level programming languages. If it was as great as its advocates say, surely it would have taken over the world by now. But it hasn't, and advocates like PG and this article author don't understand why or take any lessons from that.
attila-lendvai · 12 days ago
this assumes that greatness is a single dimension, and namely, popularity.

u/attila-lendvai

KarmaCake day105November 29, 2024View Original