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allan_s commented on Training language models to be warm and empathetic makes them less reliable   arxiv.org/abs/2507.21919... · Posted by u/Cynddl
blackqueeriroh · 11 days ago
Wait, hold on.

1) the word is “empathetic,” not “empathic.” 2) are you saying that people should not be empathetic to minorities?

Do you know why that is what’s taught in DEI trainings? I’m serious: do you have even the first clue or historical context for why people are painstakingly taught to show empathy to minorities in DEI trainings?

allan_s · 11 days ago
You know I can explain why a murderer has killed someone in her twisted system of value without myself adhering to said system

Also don't be so harsh on interpreting what I'm saying.

I'm saying that it's not the job of a company to "train" about moral value, while bring itself amoral by definition. Why are you interpreting that as me saying "nobody should teach moral value"

Also I don't see why as a French working in France, a French company should "train" me with a DEI focused on US history (US minorities are not French one) just because the main investors are US-based

allan_s commented on Training language models to be warm and empathetic makes them less reliable   arxiv.org/abs/2507.21919... · Posted by u/Cynddl
ACow_Adonis · 11 days ago
Well yes, but that's not actually empathy. Empathy has to be felt by an actual person. Indeed its literally the contrary/opposite case. They have to emphasise it specifically because they are reacting to the observation that they, as a giant congregate artificial profit-seeking legally-defined entity as opposed to a real one, are incapable of feeling such.

Do you also think that family values are ever present at startups that say we're like a family? It's specifically a psychological and social conditioning response to try to compensate for the things they're recognised as lacking...

allan_s · 11 days ago
Yes hence why it's an example of

>its institutionalization has become pathological.

allan_s commented on Training language models to be warm and empathetic makes them less reliable   arxiv.org/abs/2507.21919... · Posted by u/Cynddl
coryrc · 11 days ago
... you can change your judgement/thoughts and be on the correct side.
allan_s · 11 days ago
it was not about what I could do, but explaining why people may resort to violence.

And to be very honest even the one using the socratic method may not be of pure intention.

In both cases I ve rarely (not never) met someone who admitted right away to be wrong as the conclusion of a argument.

allan_s commented on Training language models to be warm and empathetic makes them less reliable   arxiv.org/abs/2507.21919... · Posted by u/Cynddl
lazide · 11 days ago
Especially if you do it by not even arguing with them, but by Socratic style questioning of their point of view - until it becomes obvious that their point of view is incoherent.
allan_s · 11 days ago
I'm very honestly wondering if they become violent, because using socratic method has closed the other road.

I mean if you've just proven that my words and logic are actually unsound and incoherent how can I use that very logic with you? If you add to this that most people want to win an argument (when facing opposite point of view) then what's left to win but violence ?

allan_s commented on Training language models to be warm and empathetic makes them less reliable   arxiv.org/abs/2507.21919... · Posted by u/Cynddl
lawlessone · 11 days ago
>its institutionalization has become pathological.

any examples? because i am hard pressed to find it.

allan_s · 11 days ago
A lot of companies I know have "kindness/empathy" in their value or even promote it as part of the company philosophy to the point it has already become a cliché (and so new companies explicitly avoid to put it explicitly)

I can say also a lot of DEI trainings were about being empathic to the minorities.

allan_s commented on PHP 8.5 adds pipe operator   thephp.foundation/blog/20... · Posted by u/lemper
Einenlum · 19 days ago
This.

We definitely need a better stdlib with appropriate data structures

allan_s · 19 days ago
it's a chicken and the egg problem

I think initiative like this drive a need for a more consistent, and even if slow, PHP has been deprecated/reworking its stdlib so I'm hopeful on this.

allan_s commented on What would an efficient and trustworthy meeting culture look like?   abitmighty.com/posts/the-... · Posted by u/todsacerdoti
rightbyte · a month ago
I have never searched old chats for anything but passwords, network folder paths and license keys. Going back to some conversation on some topic and give it to the new guy, does it happen?
allan_s · a month ago
in my company we do this a LOT, what helps if having a LOT of slack channels with explicit topic name

like

* "incident-2025-07-28-CI-not-deploying-disk-full" * "feature-stripe-integration" * "exploration-datadog-or-sentry"

and channel comes and go and people are quite "agressive" about routing discussion to the right channel or converting 10+ message thread into dedicated channel.

allan_s commented on A brief history of children sent through the mail (2016)   smithsonianmag.com/smart-... · Posted by u/m-hodges
9rx · 2 months ago
It is unlikely there has ever been a "everyone trusted everyone" moment in human history, but even today we rely on "random strangers" to move children to and fro every single (school) day. Such trust in people isn't out of the ordinary even now.

I doubt parents put their children on the school bus because "something bad is apt to happen anyway", rather "it is just what you do" without any further thought. The postal service carrying humans isn't what we do these days, so it stands out as a curiosity. If it the story was, instead, about a bus line or taxi service, it wouldn't seem unusual at all.

allan_s · 2 months ago
the postman in those days was not a random stranger, he was certainly the son of the Smith from the village next door that your cousin went to school with. And even if he was a total stranger at the beginning of his career, after twenty years of delivering your mails every day, you knew him, you had discussed with him, he was certainly invited to drink coffee or beer during his service by some old retired farmers, so he had acquired your trust.
allan_s commented on A brief history of children sent through the mail (2016)   smithsonianmag.com/smart-... · Posted by u/m-hodges
esseph · 2 months ago
People have been putting this in newspapers for hundreds of years.

Everytime I read the phrase I just groan and move to the next thing to read.

allan_s · 2 months ago
allan_s commented on A brief history of children sent through the mail (2016)   smithsonianmag.com/smart-... · Posted by u/m-hodges
ksenzee · 2 months ago
I don’t know whether it’s “everyone trusted everyone” so much as “everyone expected really bad things to happen anyway.” Like, if there’s a good chance I might lose this kid to diphtheria, or drowning in the river, or whatever, sending them on a trip alone doesn’t feel too dangerous by comparison.
allan_s · 2 months ago
I think it's more that communities were smaller and more consistent. People didn't move that much. Your neighbors were your lifelong neighbors, and the postman was your lifelong postman, so you knew him, and your neighbors knew him, so they didn't lack trust in anybody—they had trust in their local "social network," both toward specific individuals, and because of the implicit "peer pressure" that kept everybody in line. I.e the postman would have not been able to run away with your child without the whole community being after him.

u/allan_s

KarmaCake day664November 7, 2012View Original