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NotTheDr01ds commented on Ask HN: What outdated tech are you still using and are perfectly happy with?    · Posted by u/cainxinth
Apreche · 2 years ago
Indoor plumbing.
NotTheDr01ds · 2 years ago
I must be living under a rock. I didn’t even realize it was outdated! :-)
NotTheDr01ds commented on Ask HN: What outdated tech are you still using and are perfectly happy with?    · Posted by u/cainxinth
ruune · 2 years ago
My Google Pixel 4a. I don't think it's outdated, but ask Google about that

Also my laptop that has no Windows 11 available for it because 7th Gen Intel isn't good enough anymore. I don't think it's outdated, but ask Microsoft about that

NotTheDr01ds · 2 years ago
I made the switch from a Pixel 2XL to a 7 last year, and dang, the 2XL was better in most every respect. Fingerprint access with the 2 worked 99% of the time on the first try vs. about 10% (probably being generous) on the 7.

And voice-to-text is just as broken. I did side-by-side tests, and if you’re in perfect conditions, facing the phone directly, with no background noise (i.e., never), then the 7 performed okay, but it would fail horrible in any other case. The 2XL performed quite well, relatively. I even replaced the 7 thinking there was an issue, but the new one did the same thing.

Unfortunately, lack of updates means the 2 is no longer usable for many purposes.

NotTheDr01ds commented on Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout for “racist doorbell” [video]   youtube.com/watch?v=Kcohq... · Posted by u/reaperman
eduction · 2 years ago
Yes and I find it similarly extreme that a company would disable someone's doorbell because one person claimed something racist was said through it (?!?!). Are they going to set up a little Amazon Ring court to adjudicate every claim??

If Amazon hadn't taken that extreme step in the first place, the stakes wouldn't be so high, and there would be less reason to discipline the employee (for the record I don't think they should be fired in any case).

NotTheDr01ds · 2 years ago
Ironically, the doorbell was the thing that wasn't an Amazon product and wasn't disabled. ;-)

And yes, I recanted on the 'firing" part, but I still feel that Amazon's "resolution" here was weak-sauce compared to the "extreme" action taken in the first place. At this point, I'm guessing they wish they'd offered the customer some minor token (say 2 years of free Prime at a minimum) compensation in return for an NDA on the topic. 20/20 hindsight ;-)

NotTheDr01ds commented on Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout for “racist doorbell” [video]   youtube.com/watch?v=Kcohq... · Posted by u/reaperman
hef19898 · 2 years ago
During my tike there, Amazon's failure culture, as in yes, mistakes and failures happen, and as long as don't happen twice and lessons are learned nobody gets blame or the axe, was one of the things I liked best.

This whole asking for punishment is what actually drives a culture in which these kinds of things do happen more frequently, because everyone involved just wants to cover their asses.

NotTheDr01ds · 2 years ago
Okay, "firing" might be too strong, but that policy of "tolerating mistakes" (as long as it doesn't happen twice and lessons are learned) seems to have created a corporate culture where (if this story is true, and it seems to be confirmed):

- A customer can be mistakenly called a racist

- Their home automation systems they bought and paid for disabled

- Any digital content (Kindle books, Amazon Prime Video purchases, Audible books, etc.) they bought (sorry, "licensed") revoked.

- It takes more than a week to resolve after being provided with clear evidence of the company's mistake. I mean, good grief, at least the manager/executive should have reactivated the customer's account during the review process, but they opted for "guilty until we've taken our sweet time reviewing the evidence and make sure they're innocent".

- After all that, the customer isn't even offered an apology, much less compensation.

This isn't just a "mistakes and failures happen" situation. Failures and mistakes occurred at multiple points in this process and along the decision chain, and apparently no one involved had the common sense to break out of the resulting insanity-loop.

NotTheDr01ds commented on Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout for “racist doorbell” [video]   youtube.com/watch?v=Kcohq... · Posted by u/reaperman
sfjailbird · 2 years ago
Thanks for the summary but you're burying the lede - what the hell is a racist door bell?
NotTheDr01ds · 2 years ago
It's a separate video on his channel which is probably a better listen than this one. This one is a bit of conjecture, perhaps true. The other has been validated by multiple sources, AFAICT.

Short summary - Someone had tied in most of their home automation to Alexa and found their account cancelled suddenly one day. They went through the automated recovery systems and were told to contact support, which they did. Support ended up transferring them to an Amazon exec (let's assume "manager") who told them their account was disabled because an Amazon delivery driver reported that someone said something racist to them over their video doorbell (which wasn't a Ring, ironically).

Upon investigating, checking cameras, logs, etc,, the owner determined that (a) no one was home at the time of the delivery, (b) the driver was wearing headphones, (c) the doorbell had done an automated, "Hello, how can I help you?" response to the driver as they were walking away (presumably ring-and-dash or drop-and-dash delivery, as usual).

The driver had apparently, with the headphones on, completely misunderstood.

It took over a week to get Amazon to review all the evidence and reactivate the account. No apology at that point (although I believe I saw they subsequently have).

That's a bad look for Amazon, and the Youtuber makes a valid point that it's a bad idea to trust control of your home to a company that will make such boneheaded decisions.

IMHO, the only correct response for Amazon here is firing at least two people involved in the debacle, apologizing publicly, and promising to review and adapt their policies in response to the incident. Any halfway decent PR department at anything other than a mega-monopoly would be scurrying to do exactly that, but not Amazon apparently.

NotTheDr01ds commented on StackOverflow petition to allow removing AI generated content   openletter.mousetail.nl/... · Posted by u/miohtama
rafark · 2 years ago
If the code works just fine, why remove it? For small algorithms it should be good enough.
NotTheDr01ds · 2 years ago
"Code working" isn't necessarily black-and-white. For a new user (the one asking the question), the code may appear to solve the problem, but may have corner-cases or even security risks. That's entirely possible with user-generated code as well, of course, but GPT/AI allows it to be produced at a much higher rate, with the person who posted the answer often not being capable of (or not caring to) validate or correct it.
NotTheDr01ds commented on StackOverflow petition to allow removing AI generated content   openletter.mousetail.nl/... · Posted by u/miohtama
rafark · 2 years ago
When it doesn’t hallucinate, which in my case it’s most of the time.
NotTheDr01ds · 2 years ago
Sure, but if you try it out, you pretty quickly realize it's a hallucination. Unfortunately the type of GPT content we're now getting on Stack Overflow and its sibling sites is mostly unvalidated GPT hallucinations.
NotTheDr01ds commented on StackOverflow petition to allow removing AI generated content   openletter.mousetail.nl/... · Posted by u/miohtama
matsemann · 2 years ago
If you as an answerer uses an LLM to generate content, then verify and vet it yourself based on your own knowledge before posting, I'd think it's fine.

But spamming thousands of answers an hour automatically and wanting the community to do all the work is just not sustainable I feel. It'll also kill the sense of community if half the actors are bots.

NotTheDr01ds · 2 years ago
Agreed - That's the basis of my "responsible use of AI on SO" post at https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/389675/902710
NotTheDr01ds commented on StackOverflow petition to allow removing AI generated content   openletter.mousetail.nl/... · Posted by u/miohtama
kristofferR · 2 years ago
How are they going to check for LLM usage?

I think it's way more likely that poor answers won't mention the usage of LLM's to generate the answer, while good answers aided by LLM's will more often mention it.

Punishing honesty just seems incredibly counterproductive.

Automatic detection is downright dystopian... being censored by an algorithm because it mistook my effort and work for a LLM.

NotTheDr01ds · 2 years ago
Agree with the middle part - At the moment, the policy implemented by corporate is "Don't ask; don't tell". If someone says they used GPT or other AI for their answer, it's disallowed. If they try to hide the fact, there's not much the community can do to get it removed.

And while I'm not a moderator, as just a user I've flagged over 1,200 answers on Stack Overflow (and several of the smaller communities like Ask Ubuntu) that were subsequently removed. Automatic detection was never the sole criteria that was used to determine if it was AI - It's entirely possible to spot GPT content using multiple methods. I don't publicly talk about most of these, since we do have a group of users (sometimes spammers) who attempt to hide their use and make it more difficult to detect. See some of my additional notes on the topic on https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/389674/902710

NotTheDr01ds commented on StackOverflow petition to allow removing AI generated content   openletter.mousetail.nl/... · Posted by u/miohtama
pixl97 · 2 years ago
Yep, and if you aggressively ban bots/LLM content, then you'll see everyone accuse and report each other for said content even if it's good content.

For example here on HN we have a rule if you see bot content you don't mention it in the thread. You report it and let the admins decide. Anything else just turns into flamewars.

NotTheDr01ds · 2 years ago
And there's the problem on SO. Previously, we could do exactly that - Flag the content for a Mod to review. Now Mods are pretty much prevented from taking any action when we (the community members) and they believe it is a bot.

I saw one user yesterday post 10 lengthy, detailed answers in an hour, in 3 different programming languages. But the Mods aren't allowed by SE to consider that (or pretty much anything) to be an indicator that it's AI-generated.

u/NotTheDr01ds

KarmaCake day81April 28, 2019View Original