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Middleclass commented on Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side   laptopmag.com/news/google... · Posted by u/joshlittle
thaumasiotes · 6 years ago
Pretty interesting article.

> "Google Chrome ads started appearing next to Firefox search terms. Gmail & [Google] Docs started to experience selective performance issues and bugs on Firefox. Demo sites would falsely block Firefox as 'incompatible'," he said.

> "All of this is stuff you're allowed to do to compete, of course. But we were still a search partner, so we'd say 'hey what gives?' And every time, they'd say, 'oops. That was accidental. We'll fix it in the next push in 2 weeks.'

> "Over and over. Oops. Another accident. We'll fix it soon. We want the same things. We're on the same team. There were dozens of oopses. Hundreds maybe?"

> "I'm all for 'don't attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence' but I don't believe Google is that incompetent. I think they were running out the clock. We lost users during every oops. And we spent effort and frustration every clock tick on that instead of improving our product. We got outfoxed for a while and by the time we started calling it what it was, a lot of damage had been done," Nightingale said.

You can do a lot more damage as a trusted friend than you can as a known enemy.

Middleclass · 6 years ago
If you replace "friend" with "courtesan" or "prostitute" your analysis is correct.
Middleclass commented on Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings   greece.greekreporter.com/... · Posted by u/znpy
drewbug · 6 years ago
> We'll soon have source-included but secret-compiler software as a technical possibility, by means of zero-knowledge computational proofs.

could you elaborate on this?

Middleclass · 6 years ago
Zero-knowledge proofs can prove that binary code conforms to a specification (e.g. source code) without revealing the process used to turn specification into binary code.

In the analogy, the specification is the information provided to government officials and binary code is planned governmental actions.

If both are known and the specification process for governmental action is proven it doesn't matter what biases the officials exhibit in the decision process - then the governmental action is proven-good according to the specs (e.g. system of laws) and the information provided (in which it would be relatively easy for citizens to have a say, e.g. "you MAY NOT ignore facts X, Y and Z").

Deleted Comment

Middleclass commented on Google resists demands from states in digital-ad probe   wsj.com/articles/google-r... · Posted by u/aty268
duxup · 6 years ago
You personally can install F-Driod.

I'm not sure that third party app stores would really address much at all as far as the nature of Google's competitiveness.

Middleclass · 6 years ago
It is incomplete because Google Play Services contains functionality closed to developers, unrelated to the free online services provided by Google.

Your point stands, nevertheless.

Middleclass commented on Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings   greece.greekreporter.com/... · Posted by u/znpy
CarelessExpert · 6 years ago
> While what you say is true, the contents of these meetings should be public knowledge.

I honestly don't think it's that simple.

While decisions should always be public, in order to come to reasonable compromises on issues, it can be valuable for leaders to be able to have closed-door conversations outside of the spotlight, where they don't have to engage in political grandstanding; after all, it's that kind of compromise that allows democratic systems to function.

In fact, I would make the claim that at least one reason why the US democratic system has become so utterly paralyzed by polarization is because so much of political debate is now happening in the spotlight of social media, instead of behind closed doors where politicians can have the more nuanced conversations that might displease an electorate that is too busy cheering for their team to worry about actually getting anything done.

That's not to say this isn't without peril. Behind closed doors, corruption might happen as easily as compromise. I'm just not convinced the risks outweighs the benefits.

Middleclass · 6 years ago
Is there any difference between "secret compromises" and corruption if the compromises are against citizens' interests and will?

A black box might work IF it can be ensured that all data considered will be bundled with the decision. But how can such a thing ever be ensured?

We'll soon have source-included but secret-compiler software as a technical possibility, by means of zero-knowledge computational proofs.

It seems a bit much to ask politics to follow that state-of-the-art, which means that closed-doors talks* should be outlawed if the EU wants to have leg to stand on v. rising anti-EU sentiments.

*. indefinitely-closed-doors talks. A mandatory post-mortem including release of the talks themselves after a set period of time would go a long way.

Middleclass commented on How to Escape from Immoral Mazes   thezvi.wordpress.com/2020... · Posted by u/apsec112
retsibsi · 6 years ago
Sorry, I only saw this today. I don't think I fully understand your question, though -- can you clarify? I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'keeping the effects strongly tied to their causes'/maintaining 'strict lines of cause and consequence', vs. 'lumping outcomes together'. So the rest of the comment is obscure to me, because I can't follow the connections you're making.

Is part of your point that we should be as precise as we can about the effects of our actions, tracing lines of causality at the highest possible resolution? I agree with this in principle (allowing for the fact that improving our knowledge isn't costless, so it will rarely be worthwhile to literally maximise it), but I think usually all we realistically have is a best guess, maybe a rough probability distribution for the outcome of each action. And throwing that out because it's uncertain would be letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, IMO.

Middleclass · 6 years ago
No problem, thank you for your response.

What I meant to say was this:

"The lumping together of outcomes in roughly two boxes, while also discarding information about the specific actions that lead to the outcomes."

Once this has been done, there is no longer a line back from the outcomes ("buying food") to the actions that led to it ("receiving a salary"). Or "finding a job for some or other purpose", which leads to "working for company X", and then "receiving salary from company X", and then assuming part of the responsibility for the actions of "company X" by spending the money earned there.

I know almost no one who considers where their money comes from, and then actually implements steps to make their spending habits congruent with that.

Ethical use of money does not just involve spending it at the right places, it also involves earning it in a way congruent with where you spend it, e.g. keeping track of where the money originates from. Companies do not create money and everyone who works for them knows this.

For instance, if I receive money from place A which is involved in studying agriculture, if I then spend it in a place which is agriculturally underdeveloped, anything I accidentally reveal about agriculture to the place where I spend my money is well placed.

In the same vein, if I'm part of a criminal underworld involved in child trafficking and prostitution, I should not be spending it on schools, even if it were possible to keep the two worlds completely isolated in all my other actions. Thinking such a total isolation is implementable by hand without actually knowing you can do it and how, is highly unwise and a sure sign of an overgrown ego.

Taking money from one place and moving it to another just creates an undeniable and indestructible trace from place A to place B. If you are not a perfect filter to things which are at place A and should never be at place B, you are responsible for any and all harm caused, through willful ignorance of the fact that companies make money in cooperation with the society they function in.

To give you a simpler example, if I'm developing software that pushes some kind of social frontier, it makes sense for me to import my food from the most socially backwards countries, so that I don't accidentally mistake the actual problem space for "just my backyard". Because then I literally owe my food to the support of a country which has bigger social problems than I do personally.

Ideally this makes the software I develop less complex, I get a wider picture of the problem which makes it harder to even consider complicating the solution, and it helps aim my attention more precisely in ways which are known-good.

However, if I only were to consider the outcomes of my actions, such as great software or great tasting food, I may be effective at producing sharp weapons but not so much at producing tools for peaceful ends.

Middleclass commented on Show HN: Kasaya – A scripting language and runtime for browser automation   github.com/syscolabs/kasa... · Posted by u/hliyan
Middleclass · 6 years ago
Is Selenium less crashy nowadays?

Back in 2017 when I had a testing automation job, I wrote a test automation system using Node, Selenium WebDriver, Cucumber and Vagrant.

It worked well once I managed to set up a Vagrant box that would take Cucumber tests from a local directory and keep a Node, Selenium WebDriver and Cucumber install cached, but WebDriver never really stopped crashing unpredictably.

I had to implement very coarse retry logic. Tests would take way too much time just because each run a few of the tests would keep crashing for a minute or more, until they finally succeeded.

I parameterized the Vagrant box so that testers could run subsets of tests by running the "test" command with parameters, not because we had that many tests (just about a 100) but because they were so slow.

It wasn't even that complicated of a SPA, and the backend engineers even added nice classes and ID's to elements that were to be tested.

The binding of Cucumber to JS to WebDriver was flawless, adding new testing functions (e.g. "do something with some particular type of list of items"), it was just that the browser component kept crashing all. the. time.

I longed for a deterministic means of automating the browser then, preferably by hooking right into the browser code and integrating with it, so I would know why the thing kept crashing. That hasn't happened yet.

Middleclass commented on Show HN: Kasaya – A scripting language and runtime for browser automation   github.com/syscolabs/kasa... · Posted by u/hliyan
threatofrain · 6 years ago
Using Ansible is what made me lose faith in DSL's in all the ways mentioned (eventually wanted loops, conditions, variables and namespaces...). Ansible is an API over a domain and if it were originally just represented through a Python language library I don't see why it would be less accessible or productive. Even something as simple as YAML can be screwed up and turned complicated.
Middleclass · 6 years ago
Have you tried SaltStack?

It uses YAML too, but always felt much more cleanly composed, and smoothly integrates with scripting languages.

I've never truly broken into orchestration and am still salty about that so please, take my post with a grain of salt.

(Full disclosure: I have literally no professional affiliations whatsoever.)

Middleclass commented on How to Escape from Immoral Mazes   thezvi.wordpress.com/2020... · Posted by u/apsec112
retsibsi · 6 years ago
It just comes from a focus on marginal effects (my replacement at evilcorp will probably do roughly as good a job, and probably not give a large fraction of his/her income to charity) and caring about actual outcomes for the people you're trying to help, rather than your own personal purity.

Like everything, the approach can be abused (I feel fine about taking this high-paying morally dubious job, because I'm earning to give... but oh wait, now I have a family to support, and the cost of living is surprisingly high here, and I've got to wear good suits and drive a decent car or my professional reputation might suffer...) but a lot of people are sincere about it, and it does make sense.

Middleclass · 6 years ago
Do you know of models of utilitarianism that maintain strict lines of cause and consequence?

What bothers me about some utilitarian perspectives is the lumping outcomes together of outcomes, based on vague definitions of benefit and harm, instead of keeping the effects strongly tied to their causes.

If you take that approach joining a company, you better know how much of the company money passes through you, and you better spend it very ethically and keep track of the development of the ethics of the company.

"Knowing a tree by its fruits" and all.

AFAICT it's the philosophical blind spot that got us parallel construction (an illegal US police practice), manufacturing evidence based on desired convictions, to reach a desired monetary, political or personal end.

There's also a New Age concept for it, it's called "spiritual bypass". "If only I'm spiritual enough, I can do whatever I want", or "if the Lord wanted my garden to bloom he'd water it, I did my part praying".

In psychological terms it's called "rationalization". I don't think it's an avoidable abuse as long as you don't do your own bookkeeping.

u/Middleclass

KarmaCake day-3February 8, 2020View Original