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Lambent_Cactus commented on Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?    · Posted by u/erikig
gnabgib · 4 years ago
Originally the Voight-Kampff test[0] was for this purpose, from the original novel by Philip K Dick "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?"[1] from 1968. The test was designed to distinguish between replicants (androids/bots) and humans. Blade Runner (both the 1982 original[2] set in 2019, and the 2017 sequel[3] set in 2049) both feature the machine.

The baseline test seemed like an unnecessary deviance, and more like an active-duty psych exam measuring the psychological effects of the job.

It's also arguably the point of the novel/movies (I'll leave it at that to avoid spoilers).

[0]: https://nautil.us/blog/the-science-behind-blade-runners-voig... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Androids_Dream_of_Electric_... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_Runner [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_Runner_2049

Lambent_Cactus · 4 years ago
Yeah, I liked the idea that it's asymmetrical. You use the VK to find replicants trying to pass as human, but to try to make sure they're sufficiently robotic you need something else. Which makes sense: the original VK would be easy to tank if you were _trying_ to act like a replicant.

And narratively I think it works amazingly. The idea of forcing someone to prove that they're sufficiently inhuman ... shudder.

Lambent_Cactus commented on Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?    · Posted by u/erikig
DrBoring · 4 years ago
I've dreamt of a captcha to prove that one is a robot, such as: solve this complex mathematical equation in 15ms.
Lambent_Cactus · 4 years ago
There's a haunting version of this in Blade Runner 2049 that they call a "baseline test." Replicants have to prove they're sufficiently robotic by reciting extremely alienating things about themselves in rapid succession:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h-seEowtDw

Lambent_Cactus commented on Kolmogorov Complicity and the Parable of Lightning (2017)   slatestarcodex.com/2017/1... · Posted by u/phab
clavicat · 4 years ago
Yes, but being shot was not the fate of a typical dissident under late socialism. Gentler states like that of Hungary also managed to suppress dissident and not with bullets. More typical is the following:

>Konrád lost his job by order of the political police in July 1973. For half a year he worked as a nurse's aide at the work-therapy-based mental institution at Doba.

Lambent_Cactus · 4 years ago
Orders of the political police are backstopped by violence. I'm not sure what distinction you're drawing?

Either way, the head-shooting and the stake-burning are Scott Alexander's metaphors here, from the linked SSC post. As the severity, suddenness, and violence of the sanctions heretics actually face go down my intuitions about his Parable of Lightning start to change. Dial them all the way down to Damore's situation (private business terminating at-will employment, for repeated on-the-job behavior that creates HR problems, totally non-violent) and my intuitions flip entirely.

All the rhetorical work of the Parable is done by this false equivalence. That it falls apart when stated so plainly causes me at least to worry about the reliability of SSC's digressive style. What other unfounded assumptions slip through on mood affiliation when you're not disciplined enough to write straightforwardly?

Lambent_Cactus commented on Kolmogorov Complicity and the Parable of Lightning (2017)   slatestarcodex.com/2017/1... · Posted by u/phab
clavicat · 4 years ago
>Damore wasn't burned at the stake or shot in the head; he was fired from one especially cushy software job at a giant, publicly-traded company.

How do you think regimes normally deal with dissent? Extreme violence makes for vivid imagery but it’s not typical. Usually, it’s as simple as threatening to fire you from respectable employment and education. This is how the entire Eastern Bloc kept a lid on things.

Lambent_Cactus · 4 years ago
The Eastern Bloc did ... kind of a lot of violent coercion? The penalty for jumping the Berlin Wall was not losing your job.
Lambent_Cactus commented on Kolmogorov Complicity and the Parable of Lightning (2017)   slatestarcodex.com/2017/1... · Posted by u/phab
civilized · 4 years ago
You were right about this for a while, although I sympathized with his bitterness. But now he actually ended up getting into art and he's really good. Check out his Twitter feed sometime.

Very few people seem to bother sympathizing with the unwoke autistic nerd, but I feel happy for him that he transcended this deeply unfair, absurd, traumatic incident in his life and found something beautiful to do.

Lambent_Cactus · 4 years ago
I did actually check out his twitter feed before writing this, where I saw that his bio, pinned tweet, and several of his most recent tweets (https://twitter.com/JamesADamore/status/1456653034671517703, https://twitter.com/JamesADamore/status/1453034087036424194, https://twitter.com/JamesADamore/status/1448325924756332546), are all about either the memo controversy or other culture war grist. It's who he has decided to be.

Some of the AI-generated art is nice though, so more power to him on that.

Lambent_Cactus commented on Kolmogorov Complicity and the Parable of Lightning (2017)   slatestarcodex.com/2017/1... · Posted by u/phab
Wolfenstein98k · 4 years ago
He really is an excellent writer, isn't he?
Lambent_Cactus · 4 years ago
Most of his articles could be about a third as long with no loss in clarity. The meandering windups can be _rhetorically_ effective, especially when they appeal to the biases of the reader, as they appeal to mine. But they're not truth-directed, and often obscure weak or blindered reasoinng, as I think they do here.
Lambent_Cactus commented on Kolmogorov Complicity and the Parable of Lightning (2017)   slatestarcodex.com/2017/1... · Posted by u/phab
roenxi · 4 years ago
The specific context seems almost like a distraction; there is a fundamental issue being raised here. Is there such a thing as a prosocial repeated lie? The existence of a known, obvious and unchangeable inconsistency in the social fabric can paralyse the ability of people to find the truth using logic and reason.

Which isn't to say that the discourse has to be logically consistent - it isn't ever going to be. But it should be open to challenges from a logical basis. One of the strengths of western society is that persistently asking "why are we doing [X] it doesn't make sense?" or repeating "there is evidence that approach [Y] gets better results" has often resulted in change. Compared to somewhere like the USSR where the system collapsed before it let people just go out and make their own lives better.

Lambent_Cactus · 4 years ago
I'm sure you could come up with a hypothetical prosocial falsehood, like "aliens assassinated JFK for petty reasons, but they're very vain and will destroy the Earth if word gets out." If you become President and learn the real story, you damn sure better stick to the script about the grassy knoll!

But I think it's also possible to have pro-social taboos, particularly if they're attempts to correct for some indefensible (but maybe cognitively appealing or historically convenient) past error.

So for example, imagine a society that long practiced infanticide against the neurodivergent, and state-backed violence, disenfranchisement, and murder against the merely socially awkward. After intense and often violent social struggle, this society now affords them (us) formal equality, but big gaps in wealth and power remain, and a revanchist minority (with a terrorist fringe) openly wishes for a return of the old ways.

That society might develop strong taboos against "just asking questions" about whether shy people really had it so bad, or whether society should worry about whether they're treated fairly, or whether there isn't some innate biological difference that accounts for their relative lack of success. That would probably be a good thing!

There's some amount of epistemic deadweight loss you would happily accept to be extra guarded against backsliding on the core ethical commitments. You might even come out ahead epistemically, where there would otherwise be strong but subtle cultural biases, pressures of ideological convenience, and cognitive-scientific artifacts around in-groups and out-groups that make _false_ claims about the shy, awkward, or neurodivergent more appealing than the objective facts merit.

Lambent_Cactus commented on Kolmogorov Complicity and the Parable of Lightning (2017)   slatestarcodex.com/2017/1... · Posted by u/phab
exolymph · 4 years ago
This was published in response to a lament about James Damore, in case anyone is wondering about the immediate context. The proximate issue was that women and men, on average / in aggregate, are different. But the general principles apply to other issues as well.
Lambent_Cactus · 4 years ago
The problem with signing up with an underground Straussian heretic network is that if you're not actually beset by the Inquisition or by Stalinism, you're likelier to trap yourself in an epistemic filter bubble than to discover some secret truth.

Damore wasn't burned at the stake or shot in the head; he was fired from one especially cushy software job at a giant, publicly-traded company. And rather than grappling with the effects his memo might have had on such a complex environment, or even sticking to pursuing the empirical facts about his claims, he decided to pursue a career as a right-wing micro-celebrity, only engaging with conservative activists and alt-right trolls. And he's been stuck there ever since, with his fellow culture warriors clapping each other on their backs about what brave heretics they are, instead of getting back to building anything interesting.

Lambent_Cactus commented on President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment   purdueexponent.org/campus... · Posted by u/h2odragon
yholio · 4 years ago
It's a very weak response from Purdue. Zhihao Kong was bullied and followed around on campus for commemorating the victims of the Tiananmen masacre. He was called a CIA agent by fellow Purdue students and was reported to the Chinese state, who attempted to silence him by forcefully leaning on his family in Hong Kong.

The identities of the bullies is well known and the extent of abuse is borderline criminal. There should be only one remedy: imediate expulsion of any agent of repression of the Chinese state.

The statement clearly fall short of what is required, it simply wants to appease those outraged by threatening with vague punishments, without risking the large revenue from Chinese students.

Lambent_Cactus · 4 years ago
I seems like a lot hinges on "The identities of the bullies is well known."

The President's letter says "If those students who issues the threats can be identified, they will be subject to appropriate disciplinary sanction." Have the threateners been reliably identified in, for example, press accounts? It seems very possible that in some communities on campus "everyone knows who it is" without the administration actually knowing, or being able to reliably prove, who it was.

Lambent_Cactus commented on Tiger Global: How to Win   readthegeneralist.com/bri... · Posted by u/imartin2k
Lambent_Cactus · 4 years ago
Ugh, just read the original that this post rips off, which has all the analysis and none of the egregious over-writing.

https://randle.substack.com/p/playing-different-games

u/Lambent_Cactus

KarmaCake day327April 4, 2011
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LC lives and works in Chicago
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