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JC5 commented on Firefly III: A free and open source personal finance manager   firefly-iii.org/... · Posted by u/thunderbong
TT-392 · 2 years ago
After a day of trying to get it to work at all (tried through both the docker thing and the non-docker thing) and finally getting it to work. Then, the nexy time I try to start it, shit being broken again, I rage quitted and switched to hledger. I'm sure it is easy if you are in the webdev/devops world though.
JC5 · 2 years ago
What happened, exactly? The docker compose file and the associated files should work out of the box.
JC5 commented on Firefly III: A free and open source personal finance manager   firefly-iii.org/... · Posted by u/thunderbong
zargon · 2 years ago
The author has a weird take on zero based budgeting [0]. To me it seems like a distinction without a difference. I never did try Firefly because at first it wasn't very mature and then later I found Actual Budget, which is (or at least was) perfect. (I haven't transitioned to the open source version yet, so I'm not sure if they broke it.)

[0] https://docs.firefly-iii.org/explanation/firefly-iii/backgro...

JC5 · 2 years ago
The difference isn't very big, but I honestly (I wrote that page) believe that the difference is worth pointing out.
JC5 commented on Firefly III: A free and open source personal finance manager   firefly-iii.org/... · Posted by u/thunderbong
optimal-choices · 2 years ago
Looks good! However, if you need multi-currency support, I'd recommend checking out HomeBank.

Multi-currency is one of those weird things, where if you actually need it your options are much more limited, but it also feels weird to keep asking financial software developers to keep implement a niche-ish feature. Anyway, it's good to have options.

https://www.gethomebank.org/en/index.php

JC5 · 2 years ago
Firefly III is 100% multi-currency. Even budgets, bills, anything.
JC5 commented on Firefly III: A free and open-source finance manager   firefly-iii.org/... · Posted by u/yessirwhatever
funnym0nk3y · 3 years ago
Unfortunately Firefly is not really a double-entry bookkeeping system. There is a differentiation between source and destination accounts (called expense and revenue) which makes reverse transactions a pain. I pay 100€ for furniture in May and return it in July. Now I can either create the furniture store as both source and destination account or delete the first entry. Both is equally bad in my opinion. I think a much better solution would be to differentiate between my accounts and 3rd party accounts.

Also, what I was struggeling with (and not only in Firefly, but all budgeting apps) was the sometimes significant delay between the purchase and the bank transaction. In addition there is the issue with split transactions from imported transactions. Basically manual data entry is too much work and automated data entry is too faulty. I roughly sketched a process in my head which could solve that.

It basically disinguishes between manually added information and bank information. Both is stored and then combined to one transaction. This closes the gap between the bank domain and the "user domain".

1. Let the importer bring in all the bank transactions with the date, the transaction is executed. Display on the right.

2. On the left there are manually entered transactions, possibly with split transactions.

3. Now you make matches.

4. If there is no manual entry, you can add some information like splitting the transaction, add a date you did the purchase, etc. by clicking on the bank transaction.

5. All the above could be automated by rules. Like making matches, giving it a pretty name, assigning a category, etc.

6. Last step: Manually sign off all the matches. If a time period has only signed off transactions it gets a "true" designation otherwise a "preliminary".

Happy to hear about your thoughts on that!

JC5 · 3 years ago
> There is a differentiation between source and destination accounts (called expense and revenue) which makes reverse transactions a pain

Sure, but that doesn't make it any less of a double-entry bookkeeping system.

> Now I can either create the furniture store as both source and destination account or delete the first entry. Both is equally bad in my opinion.

The first is correct bookkeeping. The second is bad.

Regarding the process you suggest, each step in your workflow is a massive undertaking to build. And it serves exactly one (1) user for whom the workflow fits: you.

It's how I started Firefly III: solving my own problem. So I guess you know what to do ;)

JC5 commented on Firefly III: A free and open-source finance manager   firefly-iii.org/... · Posted by u/yessirwhatever
henrydark · 3 years ago
Is double-entry still needed?

I feel that it muddles storage logic with business logic. If it's an error-detecting raid1 storage system, can't we just use raid1 storage configurations separately from the application?

JC5 · 3 years ago
Technically speaking, it's not really necessary. It does help to validate database consistency, because the sum of all transactions is zero.

It also prevents you (from an architectural perspective) to pull money out of thin air. If you create an account with 1000 on it from the start, there has to be a source for that money. That account is hidden and invisible, but will have a balance of -1000. It may look like nothing, but it helps to keep things in check.

JC5 commented on Firefly III: A free and open-source finance manager   firefly-iii.org/... · Posted by u/yessirwhatever
sverhagen · 3 years ago
To ask something that now seems obvious... in your experience, doesn't that friction just drive people away from the program? That seems to me the natural response.
JC5 · 3 years ago
Firefly III is missing plenty of features (see below). I started Firefly III with a single user (me) and everything else is a bonus.

https://docs.firefly-iii.org/firefly-iii/about-firefly-iii/w...

I will admit that I caved under pressure and built the Firefly III Data Importer:

https://github.com/firefly-iii/data-importer

JC5 commented on Firefly III: A free and open-source finance manager   firefly-iii.org/... · Posted by u/yessirwhatever
toyg · 3 years ago
Looks good but the real problem, as for 90% of similar programs, is the volume of necessary data-entry. Paid-for options like YNAB, nowadays, can fetch transactions from many mainstream US/EU banks and credit providers. Without that sort of feature, it's a real drudge to keep up entering every single expense.
JC5 · 3 years ago
This depends on how you look at financing and budgeting (duh). But Firefly III was originally designed (by me) to lower your running expenses. It doesn't feature a lot cool budget automation because that leads to more charts but less money.

The original idea was to make it hard (or at least with some friction) to create transactions. This also excluded any way of importing data. That way you feel your transactions twice. Once when you spend the money, and twice when you have to enter it.

Making you finances tangible is a very good way of spending less money. Importing all your shit just gives GIGO but with nicer graphics.

JC5 commented on Firefly III: A free and open-source finance manager   firefly-iii.org/... · Posted by u/yessirwhatever
wolverine876 · 3 years ago
Yes to the first question or to the second?
JC5 · 3 years ago
No to the first, yes to the second.
JC5 commented on Firefly III: A free and open-source finance manager   firefly-iii.org/... · Posted by u/yessirwhatever
wolverine876 · 3 years ago
Are there FOSS libraries that handle common financial functionality and do it reliably? Are these FOSS applications all reinventing the wheel?
JC5 · 3 years ago
Basically, yes.
JC5 commented on Firefly III: A free and open-source finance manager   firefly-iii.org/... · Posted by u/yessirwhatever
toyg · 3 years ago
Looks good but the real problem, as for 90% of similar programs, is the volume of necessary data-entry. Paid-for options like YNAB, nowadays, can fetch transactions from many mainstream US/EU banks and credit providers. Without that sort of feature, it's a real drudge to keep up entering every single expense.
JC5 · 3 years ago
There is the Firefly III Data Importer though?

https://github.com/firefly-iii/data-importer/

u/JC5

KarmaCake day73April 25, 2018View Original