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ChefDenominator commented on Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs   flipboard.com/@HBR/-why-g... · Posted by u/jfaucett
dang · 9 years ago
That is like complaining when you get a speeding ticket because you saw other people speeding and didn't see them get a ticket.
ChefDenominator · 9 years ago
These types of selective moderation make HN seem like the typical hive-mind that shouts down and uses abusive moderative tactics to prevent any diversity of opinion from sticking around.

Enjoy your kingdom.

ChefDenominator commented on Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs   flipboard.com/@HBR/-why-g... · Posted by u/jfaucett
dang · 9 years ago
We certainly try to. But you'd probably get farther with us if you worked on your own stuff first.
ChefDenominator · 9 years ago
Two posts in violation of a policy regularly broken makes it so if I complain about this bad behavior someone else is using against me, such complaints are not relevant, but I may be banned from your website.

Am I understanding this correctly?

ChefDenominator commented on Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs   flipboard.com/@HBR/-why-g... · Posted by u/jfaucett
dang · 9 years ago
This sort of personal attack will get your account banned on HN, so please don't do it again. Ditto for uncivil swipes like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14435509.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

ChefDenominator · 9 years ago
ChefDenominator commented on Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs   flipboard.com/@HBR/-why-g... · Posted by u/jfaucett
Roboprog · 9 years ago
Would it not be...

This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

+

The assertion that the peak of this curve is skewed towards the left (low tax rates), rather than the right (high rates)?

That is, that if the "job creators" don't keep enough of the margin on goods produced, they will just get pissed off, take their marbles and go home, rather than actually bothering to hire a few more people to grab additional marginal income?

The way the Laffer Curve was usually presented, was to give one the impression that there were marginal tax rates so high that they were somehow greater than 100% and ate into income earned at a lower marginal rate, which would otherwise have been retained had there been less of it.

Thus, "trickle down" being the idea that when the rich have more money, they will for some reason voluntarily use it to hire people to produce products and services, regardless of whether or not there is any actual demand, or anticipated demand, for them.

Yes, a marginal tax rate of 110% would be bad. Good thing we don't do that :-) (I guess I should be ready for some example from 1880 where combined locality through federal taxes did for some specific dollar amount - but hopefully such freaky exceptions don't really exist, or at least often enough to matter)

Edit: I realize that the Laffer Curve was primarily about tax revenues, BUT, a large component of the theory was that as the activity increased to generate the tax revenues, it was due to somebody doing the work that created the additional earnings.

ChefDenominator · 9 years ago
There is a common misconception of the Laffer curve that is based on trying to interpret the data. However, what the Laffer curve demonstrates is that there is a curve, nothing else.

Please note that I do not consider anything from Wikipedia as evidence of anything, so if you are trying to get me to respond to something to do within a Wikipedia article, it just isn't going to happen. The number of times I have discovered serious issues with those articles, especially on political, philosophical, and academic topics is, frankly, disturbing.

There is a theory within some economic schools of thought that savings generates production, but this is not directly to do with tax rates or the Laffer curve, nor even rich people.

ChefDenominator commented on Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs   flipboard.com/@HBR/-why-g... · Posted by u/jfaucett
defterGoose · 9 years ago
Sure there is. The concept is that if you allow the richest to keep all their riches, they will spend it on things which will stimulate the rest of the economy. Of course, this has proven to be a seriously misguided theory, with the actual results being a lack of consumer spending and concentration of wealth to the wealthy. Is that succinct enough for you? Now, whether a bonafide economist came up with this, or RR just pulled it out of his butt is another question...
ChefDenominator · 9 years ago
This is not a description of a formalized theory, but thanks for playing.
ChefDenominator commented on Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs   flipboard.com/@HBR/-why-g... · Posted by u/jfaucett
kspaans · 9 years ago
That sounds like a failure of tax & estate planning. If you wait until you are very old to give away your assets you are putting yourself in the pay-the-most-inheritance-tax position. If the daughters had been running the business for decades already, they would have had lots of time to shift the ownership. This isn't an argument against inheritance tax, it's an argument for better education about personal finances.
ChefDenominator · 9 years ago
Yes, the primary focus of a business owner must be on tax planning, because this generates efficient operations, undoubtedly.

Also, laws change all of the time. My impression, every time I dig down with real people, IRL, is they have the same general opinion as you and others like you here, but have no actual exposure to the actual laws, as they implemented. The only occasion I come across this and I see that the business owner, with a small team tax attorneys and CPAs, can't seem to spend enough money to escape huge taxes.

I can only assume that the business owner is clueless and the Internet anons are the experts he should have hired.

ChefDenominator commented on Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs   flipboard.com/@HBR/-why-g... · Posted by u/jfaucett
dmckeon · 9 years ago
The owner could have gifted a small interest in the company to each daughter, grand-daughter, and perhaps their spouses in each year of those decades, letting subsequent value growth and inflation accrue to the surviving family members.

And also, perhaps transformed the company ownership structure into a limited partnership as well, claiming a lower market value for the shares owned by limited partners.

tl;dr: First rule of US estate planning: Die broke.

ChefDenominator · 9 years ago
I asked the same question, and his response was, "do you really think the government hasn't thought of that already?"
ChefDenominator commented on Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs   flipboard.com/@HBR/-why-g... · Posted by u/jfaucett
darpa_escapee · 9 years ago
Colloquial use of theory usually means concept or hypothesis.
ChefDenominator · 9 years ago
Okay, there is no formal concept or hypothesis of trickle down economics. (However, most PhD economists use the phrase "economic theory," but you may have some insight into this that they have not yet been exposed to.)
ChefDenominator commented on Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs   flipboard.com/@HBR/-why-g... · Posted by u/jfaucett
ChefDenominator · 9 years ago
One thing not listed in the article is that German tax policy is very export-friendly.
ChefDenominator commented on Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs   flipboard.com/@HBR/-why-g... · Posted by u/jfaucett
crdoconnor · 9 years ago
>The Hartz IV reforms that added flexibility for companies

The Hartz reforms suppressed wages and made the average German poorer:

https://ideas.repec.org/a/wej/wldecn/557.html

Germany's industrial success was evident years before they went into effect.

Hartz is like trickle down economics and a lower minimum wage: the wealthy have good reason to love it and the wealthy will make up spurious reasons why you should love it too - which many people will believe.

>A highly educated workforce

China achieved a similar measure of manufacturing success with an education system that was a great deal worse while the UK has an equally good education system and did not achieve anything like Germany's manufacturing prowess.

The difference in the British and German education system probably has more to do with the industrial pressures than it does the nature of the education systems themselves. If the UK followed a similar export-driven path, they would probably have more apprenticeships and fewer people going to Uni to study English lit.

So no, I don't think it's that.

>Inflation-adjusted wages have actually declined in the last ten years making german products even cheaper for other countries. That' terrible for everyone.

Not everyone. German industrialists (like the guy who wrote this article) love lower wages.

ChefDenominator · 9 years ago
Since you used the phrase "trickle down economics" as if it were a formal economic theory, I discount every thing you stated because you don't understand the phrases you are using.

u/ChefDenominator

KarmaCake day69May 19, 2016View Original