Readit News logoReadit News
kasperni · a month ago
To best understand the speed of progress right now, take a look at the show from last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIq_AM4q534
dachris · a month ago
It looks like the difference between the Boston Dynamics robots 2016 vs 2021

The Spot dog (which inspired the Black Mirror "Metalhead" episode) in 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf7IEVTDjng

Atlas doing backflips in 2021 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FByY3tSx2Ak

So 5 years of progress within a year.

tw1984 · a month ago
spot dog is hydraulically powered junk, unitree is motor driven from day one. Boston Dynamics was forced to switch to a motor driven architecture after it is proven by unitree.

Boston Dynamics is the follower here.

pixelesque · a month ago
Some people on X are saying they're "just" cloning/copying "puppet" human movements.

I know very little about robotics, but given these appear totally free-standing, if that was the case (I personally don't think it is), wouldn't that imply they have the same centre of gravity and weight of limbs as humans? Surely they'd have to be able to balance themselves, and copying a human's movements "exactly" wouldn't work for their own motion otherwise?

I think when watching I saw one or two of the robots "judder" their feet a bit out of sync with others - this seems to imply they are capable of balancing their own motion a bit individually.

michaelt · a month ago
I've worked on much less expensive, much smaller humanoid robots.

These robots are certainly running through a scripted set of poses which has been extensively tested for the conditions (Humans would also be choreographed and have to hit certain marks at certain times). If you covered the stage in loose gravel or a thick carpet they'd all start falling over. The things the robots hold are almost certainly taped into their hands.

Despite that, this is a very impressive demo. Those robots are $40k+, they've got 20+ of them. And not a single one fell over. They're fast too - and there are a load of corners they could have cut, but they didn't.

The floor has two textures, it would have been easier without that. The humans right alongside them? Much less safety paperwork without them. The robot wearing trousers and a cape? Much easier without that. The fewer robots you have, the lower the chances on falls over landing their backflip. Lose the audience and record it in multiple takes. Hell, you could have human acrobats in robot costumes and it'd cost far less and be much easier.

So this demo is very much a costly signal of confidence.

flakeoil · a month ago
> The things the robots hold are almost certainly taped into their hands.

You can clearly see that the robots change their grip of their sword, so it cannot be taped to their hands.

somenameforme · a month ago
Why do you think it would be the case about e.g. swapping to thick carpet would throw things off? Intuitively it seems like they must have a tremendous amount of dynamic adjustment going on. For instance think of how much variance, driven by dynamics, that there's going to be in the scene at 2:48 [1] where the robot [intentionally] falls over and then aerobically picks itself back up.

The motion is certainly scripted, but the exact mechanics in play there almost certainly vary radically from take to take. Imagine something simple like a pool/billiards break. Even if you set up a machine to rack the balls and break them in as close to identical as possible, you'd get wildly different results each time. And the dynamics in this motion is going to dwarf that.

[1] - https://youtu.be/mUmlv814aJo?t=168

verdverm · a month ago
> They're fast too

That was of of the two things that impressed me most, along with the choreography involving close and direct contact

Joel_Mckay · a month ago
Smaller platforms are actually harder to build: minimal power budget, weaker drive systems, less sensors, and fewer processing options.

Not a fan of bipedal platforms or 50kg of servos for a number of reasons.

Best regards. =3

jansan · a month ago
Of course the robots have been pre-trained and the movements are scripted, and nobody is claiming otherwise. But there must be a lot of autonomous balancing taking place. At one point you can see the robots adjusting their feet slightly different although they are all in sync, and that catapult does not look like its movement is exactly the same every time. It is just super impressive.

Does anyone remember when Honda's Asimo robot clumsily fell down the stairs during a demonstration[1] and we thought we were safe from a robot invasion by just moving to the upper floor? That was about 20 years ago.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mx6paHrnIE

wasmainiac · a month ago
It’s not a 1:1 human motion capture to servo translation. There is some work done to fix Center of gravity like you said and issues with friction and momentum.

The hard part with “autonomy” is interpretation of the environment and feeding that back into some control loop to accomplish a goal in real time. That is why most of these demos are basically recordings of movements, like choreography.

pixelesque · a month ago
They're also interacting with the environment (vaulting boxes / walls), which implies they either know their 3D position very accurately, or they have some form of sensors and can adapt a bit.
clifdweller · 25 days ago
They do use keyframes most likely captured from a human controller. you can see this after they do the backflip at :29s they land a bit differently and recover in slightly different ways but all end up in a static pose for a moment before moving on to next movement. The advancement here is the dynamics to go between those frames. Looking at last years performance you can see they pretty much go from frame a to b then stabilize then to c then stabilize. This is what makes this years look much more lifelike there seems to be some active stabilization going on during the movements. It also seems to let them chain movements that can take advantage of momentum much better rather than needing to be at rest between frames.
tw1984 · a month ago
> balancing their own motion a bit individually.

check this 4 months old video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPSLMX_V38E

I'd willing to bet that it is already close to impossible to get the robot lose its balance without some significant external forces.

simonjgreen · a month ago
As someone who owns a pair of Unitree G2s this blew my mind
faeyanpiraat · a month ago
what are you using those for ?
imtringued · a month ago
The impressive part here isn't the movement itself. You can easily train a model to perform a "procedural animation" that includes a full body control policy. The hard part is making it reliable enough to perform long sequences of movements and adapting to differences in robot placement. In other words, performing a flawless stage play is the hardest part.
tianqi · a month ago
I'm afraid you might not understand what you're talking about. Animation is a geometry problem, while robotics is a dynamics problem. The latter is subject to constraints many times greater than the former. There is no such "easy" model as you imagined that can transform the former into the latter.
noxin · a month ago
holoduke · a month ago
Those are the same people that say that China is 30 years behind in chip manufacturing.
suddenlybananas · a month ago
I don't know if you're aware but robots and chips are different things that require different expertise.

Deleted Comment

mesrik · a month ago
Yes, the autonomy level of these robots was what I was yesterday emailing with my former colleagues we were wondering. Two months ago CNET & PC-Mag posted following video which suggests more about robots movements being assisted by humans. And it also shows Chinese have being edge of the development at that point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXTibM33SDg

However, then another short video bit alike popped up and is puzzling too.

Apparently Unitree robot is playing pingpong match like a pro. Sorry about german announcer, I couldn't find with english.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BgD1ukTyNnw

There is another match viewable by pressing that "Robot plays ping ppng #robot" arrow.

How about that robot? Is it human assisted or not? Our opinions diverted, I'm quite sure it is assisted but my former colleague thinks it's got to be autonomous as it would be too difficult and slow to do that fast movements with remote control assisted robot.

It would be nice to hear opinions about that playing robot too if anyone could provide some insight in that.

edit: I think the serve waiting robot hand movement and after losing wiping left eye gesture as a disappointing a bit in my opinion gives up it's human. Or if not, why would a robot do such a human like gestures.

edit2: OK, good points, I see now. It's definitely a fake. Thanks to all who replied :)

robots0only · a month ago
here is a real video of a unitree robot playing ping pong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOfPKW6D3gE
imtringued · a month ago
The second video you've linked is fake in every aspect in regards to the robot.

The robot is floating above the ground.

The paddle is phasing in and out of existence.

The robot has a realistic human hand and uses it to hit the ball.

The robot randomly turns around mid-air near the end of the video.

The robot looks nothing like a Unitree robot.

Oh, how could I forget, the entire robot looks so obviously fake even when disregarding all of the above that I can't believe you're even trying to analyze anything in that video.

Keyframe · a month ago
that ping pong video is a CG robot, whether realtime superimposed or otherwise who knows. Look at the :27 when it gets out of tracking breaking all of physics, feet aren't planted to the ground, light, shadows.. etc.
sheept · a month ago
I think the ping pong match video might be misleading you. Based on the visual artifacts around the robot, the original footage likely had a human player that was swapped in with a robot in this video. It also has an altered content warning.
tudelo · a month ago
The ping pong video you linked is clearly fake. Look at the paddle... anyways...
eunos · a month ago
I can think that future use of pingpot robot is to replicate specific pro player style (from various recording) and be used to spar by pro players before their specific matches.
otikik · a month ago
The pingpong video is very obviously computer generated. The robot feet give it away immediately
reeeeee · a month ago
Watch out, the two shorts you linked (both of robots playing ping-pong) are fake.
Bewelge · a month ago
I'm 99% sure that ping pong match is CGI. The whole robot has this green screen effect. Look at its feet. And at second 17 it just disappears entirely for a few frames.
rolymath · a month ago
1) Cool, but when are they actually going to drive my car for me?

2) Any semblance of American technological superiority is pure fantasy at this point. The only area where Americans are truly "advanced" is in selling overpriced SaaS products. There are dozens of Chinese startups with robots just like this—as seen at CES—yet Boston Dynamics is still treated like it’s some untouchable, DARPA-level tech.

3) A lot of this comes down to cost: you can either hire one American fresh grad or a Chinese PhD for the same price.

3) The second reason is cultural: Americans tend to buy solutions, while the Chinese prefer to build them. Even SMEs in China maintain internal dev teams to build custom software for the business, as opposed to paying Salesforce for what is essentially a glorified Excel sheet with sprinkles of automation.

4) America is facing its own innovator's dilemma. The country is currently being run by MBAs and salespeople focused on extracting every last dollar from the consumer instead of providing real value or innovating. Perhaps we're one step beyond the innovators dilemma. The innovators are dead and we are in the corporate greed stage.

5) Americans are completely oblivious to how advanced China has become because of the propaganda they're fed. My personal "aha" moment was when Chinese EVs hit my local market and completely obliterated legacy automakers on both features and price. The American "free" (lol) market is being guarded by politicians but that won't work for long.

somenameforme · a month ago
#4 is the biggest problem, by an overwhelmingly wide margin. Solve that and everything else fixes itself more or less instantly. Everything is now about money and extracting every single penny possible, instead of about actually achieving things. Even most 'entrepreneurs' are now just starting businesses primarily with the goal of selling them. Everything is broken, because of the pursuit of money became the goal, further compounding by everything being run by people who have no skills except the pursuit of money.

Money should be a means to achieve a thing, not the goal in and of itself. I think the most visible decline came with the increasingly overt goal to charge rent on friggin everything. That's simply not a sustainable or realistic economic model for society and consequently even if it might maximize corporate income in the short to mid-term, in the longterm it's equally catastrophic for them as well.

verdverm · a month ago
The micro-financialization or wallstreet-ification of everything is a succinct way I try to describe it to normies
spaceman_2020 · a month ago
It’s clear to me that the smartest thing China ever did was to limit speculation in the markets. So many human capital in America is wasted pumping up valuations instead of actually building stuff

Every Jane Street hire could be building robots, but instead, they’re trading options and crypto and heck, even market making for prediction markets now

tw1984 · a month ago
> the smartest thing China ever did was to limit speculation in the markets. So many human capital in America is wasted pumping up valuations instead of actually building stuff

there was this Chinese company named Baofeng that built a stupid media player by "re-using" open source FFmpeg code, it managed to get itself publicly listed, then had its valuation went up like 50x for doing nothing other being accused for stealing FFmpeg code.

there were lots of discussions at that time how that happened and why the same level of speculation didn't happen on other public tech companies listed on Chinese market, the consensus was pretty sad - tech companies suitable for speculation are listed in the US by default, those listed on Chinese markets are 2nd tier or 3rd tier to start with, they don't offer any meaningful room for speculation.

Saline9515 · a month ago
The positive aspect is that there is plenty if venture capital for innovators; the negative one is that those innovations are stifled by various extraction techniques that allow VCs and other investors to get a return on investment.

Crypto is a good example of how the equilibria is hard to maintain, and if the last cycle saw many interesting new products come to life, they all got crushed by ruthless profit-taking from early investors and team members.

avereveard · a month ago
Unfair reading bordering with propaganda.

On one hand Boston Dynamics showed similar skill robot well before this demo, only without coreography, which is were most of the wow effect comes from here.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UNorxwlZlFk

Heck check were they were 5 years ago

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fn3KWM1kuAw&pp=0gcJCUABo7VqN5t...

Things is american research is financed by outcome potential not for grandstanding, and free standing robot that can only do recorded coreography aren't that useful outside factory floors, and factory floors can use ceiling rails or wheels to better effect.

So yeah video is suler cool, but there isn't much to it beyond that to read in terms of capabilities. You seem just to be projecting what the truth you want to be on top of a funny dance.

decimalenough · a month ago
China installed 295,000 industrial robots last year, more than the rest of the world combined, and has over 2M deployed total. China makes its own robots (57% indigenous) and its rate of robot deployment continues to grow year to year.

Meanwhile, the US installed 34,200, a decrease on the previous year, and virtually all of those were imported.

https://ifr.org/ifr-press-releases/news/global-robot-demand-...

expedition32 · a month ago
american research is financed by outcome potential not for grandstanding

Ah yes that explains Tesla...

ErneX · a month ago
I visited China in November, the amount of different brands of electric vehicles is staggering. And even small hotels had robots delivering packages or food to the rooms.

What impressed me the most is the amount of EVs on the streets.

eunos · a month ago
Also hardwares availability. I saw some X threads that mentioned how US/EU robotics labs/companies need week to procure new hardwares, Chinese ones need days at most. Cant iterate quickly with that constraint.

Imagine you need weeks to start a new software module development and to procure cloud instances.

pjmlp · a month ago
As European faced with similar pain points, I would assert it was having those MBAs offshoring everything with a colonial attittude, as if the nations on the received end would only take orders from their masters and not learn to master the technology themselves.

After a while, naturally the locals would buy the white label products that are anyway the same as the branded ones, many times produced on the same factory lines.

My father used to say, every company goes downhill when management takes over, meaning those straight out management schools without any actual business experience on what the company does, and he was kind of right, that is how we hand landed in late stage capitalism and entshitification, in the middle of geopolitics turn over.

These robots might not drive the car for us, but certainly will become part of some police containment unit, regardless if they are remote controlled or AI driven.

martchat · a month ago
Problem is that China had both cost advantage (both human capital and energy) and a large internal market. If as a company you decided not to invest and build a factory in China, you were quickly losing vs your competitor. The solution to this problem for EU and US however won't be as simple..

Once China built an industrial base, and has cheap energy sources, you cannot directly out compete it. You can only try to maintain your own industrial base by locking competitors out of your market. There is no other way. In the end that's the result of globalization - US&EU companies thought they can produce cheap, sell expensive. Instead they trained their own competition, and due to weak IP laws enabled this exodus of industry know-how to China.

Now, if China was a smaller country - let's say Japan or Turkey - this wouldn't be such a huge problem. But for the global economy, having a single country that produces 80% of all consumer goods is also a huge problem. That was never the case before with the US (except maybe directly after WW2). US+Europe, Japan+Korea, Canada, Australia supply chain was much more diverse and distributed.

What happens now is dangerous because in the end the profits are not spread across the world, and economies of scale cause this monopoly to appear, which will be hard to mitigate.

Can countries "slow" down China and move production to diversified locations? For that to work, coordinated tariffs for advanced goods from China would have to be introduced, and production reallocated to multiple other countries - very difficult to execute..

kaon_2 · a month ago
I was born in 1989. The most impressive sudden technological advance I have experienced have been LLMs. This video is a good candidate for second place. I am mindblown... That they even dare having children dance with them. The trust they must place. An acquantance bought a chess board with a robot arm, and it accidentally broke his finger because he picked up a piece that the robot arm wanted to pick up. China isn't just a few hours in the future, more like decades it feels like.
thefz · 25 days ago
You were born in 1989 and don't consider the internet the most impressive sudden technological advantage you have lived through? Wireless communication? Jesus.
rkomorn · 25 days ago
Someone born in 89, in many countries, would've grown up with the internet and non-smart cell phones, at least, no?

They'd only have been 10 in 1999 when cell phones were pretty ubiquitous among adults. I'd say they were basically past it already.

I was born ten years earlier and I'd agree that the internet is likely the biggest change in my lifespan, but I'm not sure I'd say it was as sudden as the past 2 years of AI.

kaon_2 · 25 days ago
Sure those are impressive. But they weren't sudden. It was already there before I was born and slowly evolved.

If I look at the most useful technologies around me, then Google Maps ranks high. But it wasn't sudden. It was on the desktop first. And then slowly crept through mobile.

LLMs on the other hand, suddenly just kind of appeared.

somenameforme · a month ago
Just submitted this as well. This is remarkable. Boston Dynamics has some catchup to do.
elil17 · a month ago
To be fair to BD, Atlas can lift 50 kg and a Unitree G1 can lift about 2 kg. An Atlas could literally pick up and throw a G1.

They are very different robots with very different goals, so it should be no surprise that the G1 appears much more agile.

d--b · a month ago
Yeah, when the G1s dance with kids, I realized how small they actually were. Definitely not the same category.
verdverm · a month ago
The H2 is what everyone is talking about now

some specs here: https://www.unitree.com/H2

claimed 3h battery life, can hold about 10% of its weight (7kg, with arms)

dash2 · a month ago
Isn’t it easier to make an agile robot big than to make a big robot agile?
nialv7 · a month ago
i'd say atlas is roughly on par capability-wise. see their recent video: [1]. but boston has different priorities.

[1]: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UNorxwlZlFk

pankajdoharey · a month ago
Boston dynamics is far behind plus the robots are so cheap , even their dog is cheaper than BD. I dont think their humanoid can even catch up to this price. I am sure US Army and for the chinese counterpart Chinese army will be their biggest customers. But i wonder how will this workout in situations like Plane hijack, fire fighting and other such places where human lives cant be risked to save more human lives. (Please Dont downvote because your american patriotism is poked try replying.)
verdverm · a month ago
commenting on downvoting is against HN rules and typically comes with a compounding effect

I personally agree with the rest, recommend you remove that last bit about downvoting and sneering if you can still edit

4gotunameagain · a month ago
What is the most impressive is the robustness. Of course they are following a captured human routine, but they are facing so many disturbances from which they need to recover and keep following the desired trajectories, while under multiple constraints (movement ranges, not losing balance, etc).

You can see on the backflips that all robots landed quite differently, some with both knees on the ground, some with one, some with none. Yet all recovered gracefully and moved on to the next step of the choreography.

It is genuinely impressive, and scary.

Meanwhile in the west we are bickering like 10year olds.

fragmede · a month ago
Oh god the bickering. For self driving cars, lidar vs cameras is totally missing the point. Waymo can drive with cameras only. The AGI question is what decisions does it make when things go wrong.
tw1984 · a month ago
Well, that is obviously another overcapacity issue, this time for robotics. In the last 10 weeks, there were -

Unitree's army of robots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4IOJH9Akhg

Robotera sword dancing robots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ti9Mi8rbIQ

AGIbot's flying kicks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXnXdh6IEkA

LimX's Tron2 robot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut3QFPr7hyo

one interesting observation is that none of those companies are located in Shenzhen, which arguably has the best supply chain for all electronics stuff. I guess those trillions $ spent on infrastructure paid off - Shenzhen didn't suck all talents into its proximity, it becomes an enabler for industries across the country.

eunos · a month ago
Agibot is not in Shenzhen? I think what happened is that other major cities/provinces like Hangzhou, Suzhou, Shanghai or Hefei started bankrolling talents and enterprises so they too can have major high tech enterprises in their town
tw1984 · a month ago
> Agibot is not in Shenzhen?

AGIBot is the poster boy of the municipal government of Shanghai.

> major cities/provinces like Hangzhou, Suzhou, Shanghai or Hefei started bankrolling talents and enterprises so they too can have major high tech enterprises in their town

State Capitalism at its best.

verdverm · a month ago
LimX looks to have a more humanoid offering now with a newer demo video than the one you linked

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hIqs3TBb5g

k_kelly · a month ago
This is AMAZING.

We are definitely on an exponential in term of capabilities of humanoid robots. We are probably only years away from having a robot in the house, in construction of robots. Automating anything that a human can do is best done in a human sized robot.

But.

None of these are actually useful right now. I don't want something with the arm strength of a forklift taking care of my parents or kids. The demand for humanoid robots right now is like lift a fridge from a delivery truck to a house (aka more mobile forklift) or walk through toxic sewage to pull crates out. Super useful but basically just mobile cranes, which is a small market. China seems to be making the mistake of pushing a tech demo as a consumer product (we've all been on those projects...) which can make people hate the tech.

Build something people want, don't mandate what they want. We're like 3-4 generations from amazing, useful robots. I'll be scared when these things are minding a bunch of dogs on stage.

ponector · a month ago
>> None of these are actually useful right now.

They could be really useful: without hesitation such humanoid could bring pack of explosives to the opposed treeline.

rubzah · a month ago
I hate you. This will be real in <5 years.

Also, current tech could be useful as a shopping assistant, to carry the groceries for people who can't, for one reason or another. Though the other post about tipping safety does have a point.

energy123 · a month ago
> I don't want something with the arm strength of a forklift taking care of my parents or kids.

A risk I never hear discussed is falling over and injuring children. Even the petite Unitree models are like a 70kg piece of furniture. Each year thousands get injured because of furniture falling over. I'd buy one immediately, but if I had kids or pets, I would wait for safety data on falls.

jbstack · a month ago
Humans have a similar weight and can also fall, so would you be satisfied with a fall rate the same or better than an average human?
jhanschoo · a month ago
> I don't want something with the arm strength of a forklift taking care of my parents or kids.

Robots in such an environment are designed with the appropriate affordances so that they cannot use too much force... but the concern about weight I suppose is quite salient.