This piece is wildly unfair to folks with neuro-divergence - all get lumped into one bucket. Everything suggested is either a "works-for-me" assertion, from a sample size of 1, or a broad generalization about typical neuro-divergent individuals - and that seems like a contradiction in terms. Let's be fair here.
The article glorifies neurodiversity as an wanted trait, which is perfectly suited to build perfect software. There are no downsides, you just have to sooth neurodivergent people somehow with some dim cozy lighting and silence.
I wish some programmers would be more stubborn exploring a problem space. But being randomly obsessed about a detail can also be a distraction. Loosing track of time during an obsessed phase isn't always helpful. All this is also often a easy way to ignore responsibilities of life.
I suggest that all nerodivergent peers go on high alert if they encounter business people and wanna be hustlers that pretend to care.
I wish people would stop talking so much about neurodivergency in this way. I think we just need to be aware of the differences, to help neurodivergent people where they need help, to adapt to what needs adaptation, and to give them the space they require, as is true to all human beings.
Talking about neurodivengency as a general advantage (or disadvantage) brings no benefit and adds nothing but noise to the discussion.
Personally, I love it when my disability and source of lifetime trauma is treated as a capitalist fetish.
Perhaps ironically, it's one of the many things that makes being an autistic person even harder. As if baseline expectations of you aren't already too much, you're now a hyper-profitable 400x engineer. But you can't be one of the weird ones or your social awkwardness gets you canned no matter how good an engineer you are.
The great thing about remote work & open source is that you can be one of the weird ones, create your own social interface for work, and let your accomplishments speak for themselves.
I strongly agree. It's particularly grating when someone who claims to be neurodiivergent talks about what an advantage it is (as in the linked article).
I agree a rounded view is needed. I just happen to find a lot of discussion online as well as irl to be very demotivating (sometimes bordering on a pitty party, especially on some subreddits), which is why I posted this. Ofc not expecting this to be a "well rounded" analysis - it's a very specific look they wrote about.
I've met neurodivergent people who couldn't even stay on track long enough to prepare a regular dinner. Strong "neurogenetic executive failure" is a common trait. It's nowhere near as black and white as the article wants to make it out to be.
Totally. A prominent feature of ADHD is a staggering lack of awareness of the ADHD, for example. Very little progress can be made when you externalize blame for a condition you aren't aware of and don't understand. Speaking from experience.
My worst features as a software developer have always been byproducts of neurodivergence and that lack of awareness.
There are also good features and I know I'm useful to have around for system design and development. I just wouldn't say I'm better. I'm complimentary to others, not better. That's why we build systems as teams.
In my experience there are either acutely unaware or too aware which then leads to insecurity and self-sabotaging behavior.
Speaking from my own neurodivergent experience: I tend to be a bit slower and get distracted easily, but when circumstances are optimal (silent office, clear expectations, etc) I can function on about the same level as my neurotypical peers.
While I don't 'blame' neurotypicals, I do recognize that most office environments are not that accessible for me and other neurodivergent people.
I’m actually neurodivergent. It’s not much of a gift, let me tell you. I fully count on my neurotypical teammates to ensure the company doesn’t go off the rails. If it were just me, cool stuff would definitely happen - randomly. And we would run out of money and fail.
> If it were just me, cool stuff would definitely happen - randomly. And we would run out of money and fail.
I like to think there needs to be some distribution. Just like how there should be an adversarial process where the business people are only concerned about the money and the programmers are only concerned about the product [0]. You need code monkeys to build a product and make it something people want to use. But you need business monkeys to make it profitable and to get the money to build better stuff. If the code monkeys dominate then user interfaces suck, building takes forever, and is vastly outsold by products with worse features[1]. If the business monkeys dominate too much you just get enshitification because they only care about the product so far as people will buy it (even if they turn down future sales).
Turtles all the way down. Even on just the code monkey side you need some of those people that swing for the fences and miss a lot to get those big leaps but most people should no be doing this and instead keep things marching forward. Both groups are useful, just in different ways. An adversarial process can also be useful here. But everyone also needs to recognize they're on the same team.
[0] more accurately: the business people optimize for the money, conditioned on the product; the engineers optimize the product, conditioned on the money.
[1] throughout history the products that are technically better frequently lose to inferior ones. Because success isn't purely reliant upon features
This sounds like my kind of hell. I actively enjoy going to work in a busy office and the primary reason to do so is to chat to my coworkers.
I literally cannot work in silence. The best place I ever worked was at one CCC congress where someone had set up a bunch of desks in the corner of one of the raves.
What even is the point of going in to the office if you're going to sit in silent ranks trying to increase shareholder value as much as possible without any breaks or distractions? Eugh.
Bonus: by the way "Trait 2" is written I know for sure that the author has never experienced real hyperfocus. True hyperfocus is something to be avoided at all costs. Writing code for 6 hours straight is a terrible experience and leaves you drained, physically uncomfortable and sometimes mildly injured if you were in a bad posture during that time.
That is different for many neurodivergent people, but not all. I know some who need silence. I myself need some noise floor, but something that is not distracting, like chatter than I cannot understand or make out, and without loudness spikes or recognizable names/topics/voices. For me, some kinds of music or soundscapes like waves on a beach or forest work best.
And generally, everyone who needs their personal noise in a quiet room can always use headphones. The opposite doesn't work, and the only available soundscape is "office noise" anyways.
Your last point tells me that you haven't experienced hyperfocus. The fact that you ascribe consequences to the act of prolonged focus means you don't experience the ADHD type of hyperfocus.
Because man, consequences do not connect that way. When I hyperfocus for hours, the primary emotion is satisfaction. We fixate due to a malfunction in reward centers, which happens to override negative consequences for long enough that your stiff back is no longer correlated at all to the fact that you've sat motionless over a keyboard for hours.
Even raising the question of avoiding hyperfocus excludes you. Hyperfocus is generally not something that can be avoided or controlled. The chemical gradients hit a tipping point and you're committed whether you want to or not-- and without your awareness or consent.
You appear to be suffering from bad work ethic/balance, not ADHD. Because this is not in any way how an ADHD person experiences hyperfocus. It's not a choice or a consideration, it is an event that happens without your input or control.
> Your last point tells me that you haven't experienced hyperfocus. The fact that you ascribe consequences to the act of prolonged focus means you don't experience the ADHD type of hyperfocus.
What a strange thing to say
> When I hyperfocus for hours, the primary emotion is satisfaction
Lucky you. Are you in your 20s? I thought it was great when I was in my 20s.
> which happens to override negative consequences for long enough that your stiff back is no longer correlated at all to the fact that you've sat motionless over a keyboard for hours.
And your stiff back magically fixes itself the moment you stop concentrating?
> Even raising the question of avoiding hyperfocus excludes you. Hyperfocus is generally not something that can be avoided or controlled. The chemical gradients hit a tipping point and you're committed whether you want to or not-- and without your awareness or consent.
Avoiding it is easy, you simply prevent yourself ever having enough focus for it to hit, or have external stimuli that can cut through it. I have a bunch of alarms and reminders set up throughout the day that are generally enough to jerk me out of it and remind me that I need to breathe properly, sit up straight, drink water and attend to bodily functions.
> You appear to be suffering from bad work ethic/balance, not ADHD.
Thanks for the armchair diagnosis, maybe I should stop taking these pills the doctor gave me
Arggggh. This just after Russell Barkley finally decides that his post-retirement Youtube career is over. Seriously people just go learn from those who dedicated their life to the subject, don't waste time you cannot afford not to learn, no matter how neuro-divergent you think you are or aren't.
Readit News
I wish some programmers would be more stubborn exploring a problem space. But being randomly obsessed about a detail can also be a distraction. Loosing track of time during an obsessed phase isn't always helpful. All this is also often a easy way to ignore responsibilities of life.
I suggest that all nerodivergent peers go on high alert if they encounter business people and wanna be hustlers that pretend to care.
Talking about neurodivengency as a general advantage (or disadvantage) brings no benefit and adds nothing but noise to the discussion.
Perhaps ironically, it's one of the many things that makes being an autistic person even harder. As if baseline expectations of you aren't already too much, you're now a hyper-profitable 400x engineer. But you can't be one of the weird ones or your social awkwardness gets you canned no matter how good an engineer you are.
E.g. if you have ADHD and it benefits you in those areas, you may no longer meet the diagnosis criteria IIRC?
My worst features as a software developer have always been byproducts of neurodivergence and that lack of awareness.
There are also good features and I know I'm useful to have around for system design and development. I just wouldn't say I'm better. I'm complimentary to others, not better. That's why we build systems as teams.
Speaking from my own neurodivergent experience: I tend to be a bit slower and get distracted easily, but when circumstances are optimal (silent office, clear expectations, etc) I can function on about the same level as my neurotypical peers.
While I don't 'blame' neurotypicals, I do recognize that most office environments are not that accessible for me and other neurodivergent people.
Turtles all the way down. Even on just the code monkey side you need some of those people that swing for the fences and miss a lot to get those big leaps but most people should no be doing this and instead keep things marching forward. Both groups are useful, just in different ways. An adversarial process can also be useful here. But everyone also needs to recognize they're on the same team.
[0] more accurately: the business people optimize for the money, conditioned on the product; the engineers optimize the product, conditioned on the money.
[1] throughout history the products that are technically better frequently lose to inferior ones. Because success isn't purely reliant upon features
I literally cannot work in silence. The best place I ever worked was at one CCC congress where someone had set up a bunch of desks in the corner of one of the raves.
What even is the point of going in to the office if you're going to sit in silent ranks trying to increase shareholder value as much as possible without any breaks or distractions? Eugh.
Bonus: by the way "Trait 2" is written I know for sure that the author has never experienced real hyperfocus. True hyperfocus is something to be avoided at all costs. Writing code for 6 hours straight is a terrible experience and leaves you drained, physically uncomfortable and sometimes mildly injured if you were in a bad posture during that time.
That is different for many neurodivergent people, but not all. I know some who need silence. I myself need some noise floor, but something that is not distracting, like chatter than I cannot understand or make out, and without loudness spikes or recognizable names/topics/voices. For me, some kinds of music or soundscapes like waves on a beach or forest work best.
And generally, everyone who needs their personal noise in a quiet room can always use headphones. The opposite doesn't work, and the only available soundscape is "office noise" anyways.
Because man, consequences do not connect that way. When I hyperfocus for hours, the primary emotion is satisfaction. We fixate due to a malfunction in reward centers, which happens to override negative consequences for long enough that your stiff back is no longer correlated at all to the fact that you've sat motionless over a keyboard for hours.
Even raising the question of avoiding hyperfocus excludes you. Hyperfocus is generally not something that can be avoided or controlled. The chemical gradients hit a tipping point and you're committed whether you want to or not-- and without your awareness or consent.
You appear to be suffering from bad work ethic/balance, not ADHD. Because this is not in any way how an ADHD person experiences hyperfocus. It's not a choice or a consideration, it is an event that happens without your input or control.
What a strange thing to say
> When I hyperfocus for hours, the primary emotion is satisfaction
Lucky you. Are you in your 20s? I thought it was great when I was in my 20s.
> which happens to override negative consequences for long enough that your stiff back is no longer correlated at all to the fact that you've sat motionless over a keyboard for hours.
And your stiff back magically fixes itself the moment you stop concentrating?
> Even raising the question of avoiding hyperfocus excludes you. Hyperfocus is generally not something that can be avoided or controlled. The chemical gradients hit a tipping point and you're committed whether you want to or not-- and without your awareness or consent.
Avoiding it is easy, you simply prevent yourself ever having enough focus for it to hit, or have external stimuli that can cut through it. I have a bunch of alarms and reminders set up throughout the day that are generally enough to jerk me out of it and remind me that I need to breathe properly, sit up straight, drink water and attend to bodily functions.
> You appear to be suffering from bad work ethic/balance, not ADHD.
Thanks for the armchair diagnosis, maybe I should stop taking these pills the doctor gave me