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Posted by u/sieep 2 months ago
Ask HN: Resources to get better at outbound sales?
Hi!

I run a small custom software company in Michigan.

I want to get better at outbound sales beyond just cold emailing or messaging people through LinkedIn.

We’re about to start publishing case studies and doing some outreach, so I want to take some time to study outbound sales and improve my skills.

Any recommended courses, books, or frameworks for B2B outbound sales, consultative selling, or building effective outreach pipelines?

Thanks!

FloorEgg · 2 months ago
Read "the terrifying art of finding customers" by Collin Stewart

Very few know more about outbound than he does, and that book is recent.

My two cents: It's unlikely you can make outbound work for a custom software dev studio unless you go extremely niche and have a way to target customers with relevant needs. The more broad your services the more new business depends on trust, and outbound has the lowest trust context of all top of funnel sources. What works best for dev shops is word of mouth.

Maybe consider a referral program.

Anything that can greatly boost trust when prospects learn about you.

anovikov · a month ago
Somehow, word of mouth never worked for me. I only ever got one repeat customer (he was really really good first time, but second time, mediocre), and one customer through a referral (very good, but just once). Out of 170+ over 25 years.

I see the reason: my customers are people who don't know anyone they could possibly recommend me to, because they are from random industries and random places. Also their projects are one-off: usually first and last software projects of theirs, ever. Working for someone with large networks who can make referrals means losing money because these people also know good coders and can hire well. I never solved this and rely on outbound all my life.

NicoJuicy · a month ago
Do you know those customers personally?

Word of mouth mostly comes from repeat customers as well.

Deleted Comment

jameslk · 2 months ago
Cold sales/outbound sales is dying or mostly dead. SaaS platforms and “growth ops” that made it easy to set up sales sequences and find ICP lists helped kill it. AI making it easy to personalize and do all the work has been the nail in the coffin

This is because sales is a zero sum game. When everyone can do something at scale, like send an email sequence, nobody wins. Now inboxes are flooded with spam that get deleted and phones go straight to voicemail because people have learned it’s not worth it. You can try to create even bigger lists to capture some 0.01% that will respond, but that’s a shrinking game and many B2B companies don’t have the market size for it

Instead, for my company and others I know, we’ve returned to old fashioned human relationships that don’t scale as easily. Building partnerships, asking for warm introductions, conferences, networking, events, hell I even know of someone who knocks on doors for B2B and it works for them. People ignore spam from bots but they’ll listen to real humans. They’ll read emails and take phone calls from people they know. It’s about trust now, not scale

I’d still recommend learning closing and everything needed for once a deal is in your pipeline. I think a book like Founding Sales is good for that, if a bit dated now (skip the stuff about cold sales in the first half of the book). Never Split the Difference for negotiation. For in person sales, this is basically what anyone in partnerships and outer sales do. I don’t know of resources on that. I’m learning from friends who do that and old fashioned searching

aunty_helen · 2 months ago
Conferences are huge. We’ve done 5 tradeshow demos for our clients in the last 10 months.

I agree with you about the zero sum, once you’ve seen the first hyper personalised email that says they really like your commitment to x, the rest are all the same.

enraged_camel · a month ago
Unfortunately, the reason spam exists is because it works. Same with cold calling.
groundzeros2015 · 2 months ago
When have you bought something?

Example 1: The other day I was trying to fix a sprinkler. My results were mid, then I saw a truck at my neighbors house with a phone number.

1. I was not in the market for sprinkler repair until that day. 2. I was too busy to make a market comparison, seeing that my neighbor did it was enough.

Example 2: I was thinking about refining my mortgage this year. My current servicer called me one day with an offer. It was a competitive but not t optimal deal, but the lady on the phone signaled to me she understood my values and would get it done.

That’s what you are looking for with outbound, people who are in need, willing to part with cash, but probably not shopping for the thing.

This is why cold calling works and why volume is so important. You aren’t trying to persuade people who aren’t interested, but trying to find those who are.

The biggest fear of people with money is not spending money, but that what they pay for won’t work out.

plasticsoprano · a month ago
This is the crux of Michael Dell’s big lesson as a teen that lead to the creation of dell computers. dell had a summer job in high school selling subscriptions to the Houston paper. He realized that the two groups of people most likely to buy were newly weds and those who recently moved. He paid his friends to scour the local marriage certificates and real estate rolls to see who met those qualifications and called only them. He claims to have made more in his summer job than his teachers made all year and paid cash for a new BMW.
bombcar · 2 months ago
Which means the outbound sales isn’t the first problem - it’s lead generation. How do you find a group that is more willing to purchase given the limited time you can spend on it?
groundzeros2015 · 2 months ago
No. Lead generation is how you find shoppers. Outbound is how you find people who don’t shop probably because they are too busy or haven’t identified that need yet themselves.
cj · 2 months ago
There are lots of online resources for outbound sales which will likely be better than advice you’ll find on a forum full of engineers (unless engineers are your target market)

I’d focus on zeroing in on a niche (even if it’s an artificial niche). Develop case studies for how you’ve helped people in your specific niche. Then find people in that niche and offer them those same niche services.

Do not try to be everything to everyone. No one wants to work with a software agency that “does anything”. (Well it’s possible but then you’re competing with thousands of other consultancies).

If you develop into a niche well, you’ll have less competition, you’ll be able to target the right people more easily, and youll be able to write messaging that speaks to people in that niche.

Everything gets easier when you narrow in on a small slice of a market. The problem set becomes smaller and easier to solve.

Once you see some traction, start to expand your niche.

hansmayer · a month ago
> There are lots of online resources for outbound sales which will likely be better than advice you’ll find on a forum full of engineers (unless engineers are your target market)

I mean, the man asked here as a starting point and was probably looking to hear from other engineers who already were in a similar situation. If you don´t have something concrete to offer in way of help, then its better to suppress that urge to sound smart by dropping around general-sounding "pearls of wisdom". You offered a lot of "whats" and very little "hows", which is what I assume the OP was asking for in the first place.

cj · a month ago
5 out of 6 paragraphs include concrete actionable advice. I’m sorry if you don’t like the advice.
samsolomon · 2 months ago
Hard question to answer without more details, but I've got a bit of general guidance for B2B sales:

* Know your ideal customer (ICP)—or have a decent idea. Find companies that match that profile.

* Find the right people at those companies. Go on Linkedin and find 3-6 people you think could be decision makers at that company.

* Research those people and figure out how your solution might work for them (RHO).

* Reach out to those people. Communicate what you think their pain point might be and how your solution will help them. Try and get them to agree to a discovery call.

* If they are interested, you'll need to figure out who the decision makers are for buying. If the timing is bad, ask when they renew and reach out again 3-6mos to see how their currents solution is treating them. If they aren't interested, DQ them and move on. Guarding your time here is valuable.

I'm assuming you're a founder or early on. The other comments around MEDDPICC, MEDDICC and other sales methodologies are worth a look, but may be over optimizing if you're still trying to win your first deal.

A bit of background—I was one of the first product designers hired at Salesloft. I've spent a decade building software for sellers.

1659447091 · a month ago
Having spent some time in outbound sales (after tech burn-out), the most important aspect (as many comments say) is "relationships". The best training for that is to go out and make them. We had sales training every single day, so it's really not something you can pick up a book or go to a weekend class and walk away being effective. That said, books and classes are a good way to find your footing.

Never Eat Alone - Keith Ferrazzi (networking & relationship building)

Never Sit in the Lobby - Glenn Poulos (sales & relationships)

Getting to Yes - Roger Fisher (negotiation, particularly "principled negotiation")

The Joy of Selling - Steve Chandler

The Psychology of Selling - Brian Tracy

In one of our quarterly division training, our office manager gave us Dale Carnegie How to Win Friends and Influence People and were told if we learned nothing else, to study that book.

It's been over a decade since my sales time, but the 2 sales techniques I haven't forgotten are: "selling ins't telling" and "feel, felt, found". As you can imagine, they are about relating to people, not giving technical/spec speeches.

It's something you have to practice everyday, make sales a part of your job title -- not simply something you do on top of running the company. An integrated layer no different than other software maintenance task, except the maintenance is the relationships with people you want to sell to.

For any other tech types that may someday find they need sales skills, I highly recommend actual job experience in outbound sales (with a company that provides frequent sales training). It was a massive culture shock that gave me the professional people and relationship skills I struggled with.

warthog · 2 months ago
There was an old legendary HN comment around the following concept:

"All things being equal, people buy from their friends. So just make more friends"

If you are confident of your services, just make more friends. Talk to people more. If it is too salesly already, you lost the conversation. Instead try and learn about their lives. I sometimes even open up with "No agenda to sell, genuinely curious"

Note: If anyone finds the link to the comment, please drop it here to credit the author.

gus_massa · 2 months ago
I found too many sources in Google, one from 1997, but I can't find the origin of it.
nateb2022 · a month ago
Probably Colin Dowling:

> I say in every talk I give: “All things being equal, people buy from their friends. So make everything else equal, then go make a lot of friends.”

jppope · a month ago
Thats old as time. The more basic form of it is: "Don't worry about selling, just make a friend"
Eridrus · 2 months ago
I generally recommend the book Founding Sales (available for free online), but it's targeted at SaaS founders.

But you're actually doing something even more common: running a consulting business, and there's plenty of content on that for just that reason, so I would go find content on how to scale a consulting business, e.g. this seems like the start of a thread to pull on https://training.kalzumeus.com/newsletters/archive/consultin...

wj · a month ago
I wanted to say your insight about a consulting business is spot on.

I also recommend Founding Sales and think it would be worth the OP skimming.

Also, search for Steli Efti (founder of a CRM called Close) who has some great content for outbound sales. I thought he did a session for Y Combinator's Startup School but didn't just find it. But he has lots of great content and a bit of a hustle mentality.