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Posted by u/martinlistiak 5 months ago
Ask HN: I got fired from 100k job so I've made a game and it failed
Hey guys I am trying to understand why my game isn't performing as I expected.

It's the game I've always wanted to play - logical, puzzle game. I made 3 game modes and I really enjoy playing it.

Help me improve it or just understand my mistakes. If you end up playing it rate the following please: UI: 1-10 Game Mechanic: 1-10 Fun: 1-10 Sounds: 1-10 Ads?: 1-10

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/arrows-logical-game/id6751233749

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=webmobilegamedev.arrows

muzani · 5 months ago
Games aren't just about fun. They're often about playing out some kind of fantasy. Like you can have something with 10/10 graphics, better than Stardew Valley, but Stardew Valley players aren't going to just buy a clone. They might switch to something with different gameplay though, like My Time At Portia.

Nobody fantasizes about arrows. You can make it a little livelier, like having a child find her cat.

Puzzles and match 3 are actually some of the lowest performing on average. But Candy Crush makes more money than StarCraft II. With games, you have to be in the top 10%. With casual, maybe closer to top 1%.

Wordle is about warming up the brain before work every morning, with colleagues. Sudoku makes you feel like you're good at math. Candy Crush is just plain juicy. Watch the ads for Candy Crush. It sells the fantasy of getting two 5-matches next to each other without strategy or effort.

With games like this, you might want to spend half the dev time on polish, or the game dev term being juice.

It's fun enough to sell I think. Casual games don't need to be fun. To use a food analogy, they're like snacks. They don't need to be filling; they're just there to munch on. The analogy works great for Candy Crush - it's just sweet and doesn't try to be more.

shoo · 5 months ago
> With games like this, you might want to spend half the dev time on polish, or the game dev term being juice.

see also: 2012 talk "juice it or lose it" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy0aCDmgnxg

"A juicy game feels alive and responds to everything you do tons of cascading action and response for minimal user input."

martinlistiak · 5 months ago
I love the video! I will make sure to add some juice to my game! It's going to drip
martinlistiak · 5 months ago
This is a great feedback, and very good analogies. Thank you! I guess there's not much of middle ground where I would make living with a casual game. You are either a millionaire or it flops.
carlnewton · 5 months ago
Hey, I hope this comment doesn't bring you down. You asked for feedback with the aim of doing better -- I'm not going to pull my punches.

In my opinion, your game isn't performing well because the gameplay isn't very compelling. In best combo mode, I can see a grid of arrows, I'm informed that clicking one of these arrows will clear more than the others. It says that I should find "creative ways" to clear the grid. I'm not sure that such a thing is possible. At worst, this is a game of guess the 1/25 arrow to click. At best, it's a game of tracking backwards through the arrows. As somebody who enjoys puzzle games, I don't personally find this a fun mechanic.

My initial thought was that the art might be the problem. That perhaps if these were frogs that ate each other in order or if these were bubbles that popped in a satisfying way, this might be more enjoyable, but if you haven't got compelling gameplay, dressing it up isn't going to help. My recommendation is to focus on creating challenging and enjoyable gameplay first.

Perhaps play some other puzzle games and ask yourself what it is you're enjoying about them.

carlnewton · 5 months ago
Since writing this comment I've given it some more thought and decided that I wasn't being constructive enough, so here's something a bit more positive:

Given the issue described above, if we were to add a translation task to the player, this would feel more like a puzzle. For instance, if instead of a downward facing arrow, we had a blue tile. Blue tiles move down, orange tiles move left etc. This way, we can use the exact mechanic you've built here but start the player off with a 1x2 grid, and progressively grow to a larger grid with more colours/rules. This to me seems more fun than what it currently is, and it lends itself to a more compelling art style -- even Tetris pops with colours. Going off the art idea I had in my previous comment, perhaps blue frogs are always eaten by the frog below them, green frogs are always eaten by the frog to the left of them. It could be called Frog Eat Frog or something.

Wishing you the best of luck with your project.

martinlistiak · 5 months ago
I appreciate your feedback very much. I will go back to the drawing board :) I will try to keep the main mechanic but I will enhance it somehow. I will give it some identity and some special tiles.
0x3e5f3c3b · 5 months ago
I haven't downloaded the game yet so I can't give you much feedback, but I do have a few tips/suggestions:

- have a video that shows off the gameplay: show off a few small combos and then one really big satisfying combo, also show off the game modes.

- colours, sound and animations: a really important component of game design. Each tap needs to feel like it has an impact or people will lose interest (it's why gambling machines are loud and colourful).

- offer some non-coin rewards for difficult achievements (alternate themes, different effects when you get a combo, etc.). It gives people something to show off to their peers.

- Daily challenges: gives people a reason to play the game daily. Offer a small coin reward for completing the daily challenge and set up notifications to let people know when the next daily challenge is available.

I recommend downloading a few popular puzzle apps and having a look at how they are designed, but keep in mind that not all design choices are to make the game fun. (Free) Mobile games these days are designed to be addictive and encourage users to make regular small purchases to keep the game enjoyable. I'm not a fan of this kind of game design but you'll see it everywhere because it's profitable (unfortunately).

My advice may also be a little out of date as I don't play mobile games anymore (learning how they designed really killed the enjoyment for me), but I hope it's helpful.

frompdx · 5 months ago
A couple of things:

  It's the game I've always wanted to play
That doesn't mean it's a game everyone else wants to play. However, the game mechanic itself seems pretty decent.

What the game game lacks is "juice". Read up on game feel or game juice to get an idea. Play an addictive game like candy crush to understand what good game feel looks like in a puzzle game. Then go back to your game and think about how you can juice it up. For example, could the arrows be something more interesting like characters? Can the visual experience of clearing arrows be more rewarding? You get the idea. Juice it up.

Also, adds in games is an immediate turn off. I would make it good then figure out how to monetize.

DantesKite · 5 months ago
I think Wordle is instructive here in that it has many lessons for how to make a game go viral or become even mildly popular.

For starters, perhaps you should make it also available on the web, if at all possible. That makes it easier to share and discover.

And maybe invest in the ability for users to export the gameplay as video. I could see it spreading more if people post long combos that last for minutes, sped up with music, for example and posting on TikTok, Twitter, etc. Otherwise, even if it's a good game, most people aren't ever going to discover it, except after many months.

Obviously it always helps to make a game more fun and compelling, but I presume you're already aware of that.

Jeremy1026 · 5 months ago
This is the basically just the floor puzzle from Silph Co. in Pokemon Red and Blue, but without consequences for picking the wrong path. The floor puzzle was a very small part of the game, something that would add about 15 seconds to the gameplay. I don't think it'd work for a full game meant to engage the player for more than a few minutes total.
runjake · 5 months ago
Blunt, but:

- The icon is terrible.

- The graphics and UI widgets are terrible.

They actively repulse me, because they resemble the design of those corporate conference "audience poll" type apps.

Try more modern designs? Give it a good space theme, or a castle or dungeon theme, perhaps? AI imagegen might produce something good if you need help.

Just being honest, because that's what you asked for. :-)

martinlistiak · 5 months ago
That's a great feedback, that's exactly what I wanted. To be honest this is the second iteration on the design :D I am glad you haven't seen it before :D
CM30 · 5 months ago
Okay, gonna be honest, the main issue your game has is that it seems too generic/boring. The visuals aren't bad per se, but they feel like they come straight from some premade UI framework, like a slightly fancier equivalent to programmer art.

So while the game might be fun to play, at first glance it just looks and feels cheap. It lacks an identity of its own, and that makes it really not stand out from the hordes of other generic puzzle games flooding the app stores at the moment.

Definitely add something to make it stand out there. Unique characters, a visual theme as a whole, etc.

Also maybe rethink the name too. Arrows is definitely a clear name for this game, but it doesn't really sell the game in any way, and feels about as generic as the art style does. Most successful games have strong branding that you can build a potential series off of, whereas this one does not.

Gameplay wise it seems like it could be fun, but it also feels like the mechanics will get old very quickly. It's a gameplay loop that doesn't look particularly compelling from the footage required, and which most bigger titles relegate to a mini game or dungeon puzzle since the mechanics don't have enough to them to carry a whole game.