Lisp from Nothing, Second Edition

As somebody who read a couple of the author's books, and also somebody who spent almost a decade studying compilers, I am genuinely curious about the author himself.

These works are something I both understand and would never achieve myself. These are cultural artifacts, like deeply personal poetry, made purely for the process of it. Not practically useful, not state of the art, not research level, but... a personal journey?

If the author is reading this... can you share your vision? Motivation?

nils-m-holm · 6 days ago

Thank you so much for reading my books and describing my work in such beautiful words! You basically answered your own question! My motivation is just the creation of something I find beautiful. The vision, to pass knowledge to those who seek it in the simplest possible way, where "simple" does not necessarily mean in the tersest form, but in a form that invites being digested.

I do not usually talk much about "myself". I tried, but with no-one asking, I find it difficult to say anything.

mark_l_watson · 5 days ago

I just bought ePubs for your Raja Yoga Revisted (I usually study SRF material, but alternatives are good!) and Scheme 9 for Empty Space. Your web site is very nice, I loved the ‘Who am I?’ page. I have been using Lisp languages since 1978 but except for studying Peter Norvig’s Lisp in Python, I have never dropped below the abstraction layer into a Lisp implementation so I am looking forward to that.

EDIT: https://usesthis.com/interviews/nils.m.holm/

throwawaySimon · 6 days ago

“I have nothing to say and I am saying it”

Cage.

Thanks for An Introduction to Mental Development, I've throughly enjoyed it!

ronald_petty · 6 days ago

I just ordered this book. Looking forward to learning! Thank you for your effort.

butterisgood · 6 days ago

I love that your lisp implementations are so portable. I believe one is available for Plan 9.

matheusmoreira · 6 days ago

Thank you for your work! I share your feelings.

marttt · 6 days ago

+1, long time follower of nmh's work. His books are brief and concise, but carry a peculiar "something", a precision of expression etc that is hard to put into words - but can often be noticed in long-time practicioners of some mental teaching. :)

It is always interesting to spot a person on the interwebs who seems to actually have managed to turn buddhist or some other teachings into real world deeds. Living really modestly (IIRC, he/you also uses modest, underclocked laptops?), publishing for the benefit of many, and doing all this for years and years. Like, there seems to be no "overhead" in this way of living. Hugely inspirational.

I would also point out the "Essays" section on nmh's webpage, especially the ones discussing sensitivity and high IQ: https://t3x.org/#essays

Having purchased several of your books, thanks for your work, nmh!

nils-m-holm · 6 days ago

Thank you for your kind description of my work!

Turning the Buddhist (or other) teachings into deeds is not too hard once you have understood who you are, and, maybe more importantly, who you are not. Figuring /that/ out can be tough and require a lot of practice.

What people perceive as modest is really an acceptance or even appreciation of what is. My apartment has not been renovated in decades, I repair what needs repair and otherwise leave things to themselves. I wear clothes until they disintegrate, and my hardware is already old when I buy it. This is the course of things. Things age and change and at some point disappear. Why prefer the new over the old? Why the old over the new? It is just that things and beings get old on their own, and it is much more joyful to witness this than trying to resist it.

nils-m-holm · 6 days ago

Many thanks to everybody who is wrote in this thread! Your words mean a lot to me! I will reply to some individual messages. If I don't, please substitute "thank you!" :)

AlexeyBrin · 6 days ago

I second this, would be great if someone did a long form video interview with the author.

matheusmoreira · 6 days ago

> These are cultural artifacts, like deeply personal poetry, made purely for the process of it. Not practically useful, not state of the art, not research level, but... a personal journey?

I can't speak for the author but this is exactly how I look at the lisp I'm developing. It's a lifetime project. I had some kind of vision depicting how different things could be, and at some point I started trying to make it happen. I want to convince myself I'm not insane for thinking it was possible in the first place.

nils-m-holm · 6 days ago

It's good to have a life-time project and watch it evolve over time. Nothing insane about that!

bakul · 6 days ago

Read the author’s “Raja Yoga Revisited”.

The entire website of the author is worth exploring: https://t3x.org/index.html

I love it so much, and seeing your bibliography makes me feel like a kid in a candy store. The confluence of Asian philosophy and computing is delightful.

To put you in the correct headspace this Saturday morning: https://t3x.org/whoami.html

nils-m-holm · 6 days ago

"A kid in a candy store", I love it! :)

Enjoy your stay!

WillAdams · 5 days ago

Where is the bibliography? (I searched for it, but couldn't find it, expecting to find a list of books which the author referenced in writing/researching)

svat · 4 days ago

“Bibliography” is a word used in practice with multiple meanings; the dictionary prepared by Oxford Dictionaries for Google (https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/) gives (https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Abibliography) three meanings:

> • a list of the books referred to in a scholarly work, typically printed as an appendix.

> • a list of the books of a specific author or publisher, or on a specific subject. "a bibliography of his publications"

> • the history or systematic description of books, their authorship, printing, publication, editions, etc. "he regarded bibliography as a science"

In this context clearly the second meaning is meant (https://t3x.org/index.html#books); this also corresponds to meaning 2 at Wiktionary (https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=bibliography&old...) or 2b at Merriam-Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bibliography).

> a list of works written by an author or printed by a publishing house “compiled a complete bibliography of John Donne”

2wrist · 6 days ago

That is a joy! Thank you.

(define kons (lambda (x) (lambda (y) ((pair false) ((pair false) ((pair x) y)))))) (define kar (lambda (x) (first (second (second x))))) (define kdr (lambda (x) (second (second (second x))))) (define nil ((pair true) ((pair true) false))) (define null first) (define atom (lambda (x) (first (second x))))

(define kons (lambda (x) (lambda (y) ((pair false) ((pair x) y))))) (define kar (lambda (x) (first (second x)))) (define kdr (lambda (x) (second (second x)))) (define nil ((pair true) false)) (define null (lambda (x) (((second x) (lambda (a) (lambda (d) (lambda (z) false)))) true))) (define atom (lambda (x) (first x)))

vkazanov · 6 days ago

uncircle · 6 days ago

tromp · 6 days ago

Looking at file church.scm from the provided zip file [1], I see the following functions used to construct lists:

That's 2 extra booleans per list element. While the one for recognizing atoms is probably necessary, the other one for recognizing nil is not:

The use of null+car+cdr can usually be avoided by using a matching construct instead like

    (((second list) (lambda (a) (lambda (d) (lambda (z) deal_with_car_a_and_cdr_d ) deal_with_nil)

[1] https://t3x.org/lfn/church.zip

But then (ATOM NIL) is neither TRUE nor FALSE.

I forgot to add the atom boolean to the nil representation. I made some changes that hopefully fix that.

Deleted Comment

john-tells-all · 6 days ago

Purchased the author's `Scheme 9 from Empty Space` book and loved it. Lots of very well-commented and explained code, on how to build a language up from the beginning. So much fun.

https://t3x.org/s9book/index.html

foota · 6 days ago

"What else are lists, but alternatives?"

(credit to https://aphyr.com/posts/340-reversing-the-technical-intervie..., I always get a kick out of that and the follow up https://aphyr.com/posts/341-hexing-the-technical-interview).

mindcrime · 6 days ago

Looks awesome. Just ordered a copy. I'm just now picking up Peter Seibel's Practical Common Lisp again and taking another stab at immersing myself in the world of Lisp. So this is perhaps fortuitous timing.

Often recommended is Paul Graham's "On Lisp", available for free on his website: https://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html

C-x_C-f · 6 days ago

I love Lisp (I'm an Emacs user and often write in Racket for personal projects) but the one thing I never understood about the Lisp community is the emphasis placed on metacircular evaluators.

I sure find them beautiful and all, but why do they take center stage so often? Beside the aesthetics and instructional value, I don't get the appeal. Also I feel that a bunch of the heavy lifting behind metacircular evaluators is actually done by the Polish notation syntax as well as the actual implementation, and these concepts don't get nearly as much love.

Any Lisper who can illuminate me?

Quitschquat · 6 days ago

Long time lisper. It just doesn’t feel right unless your language can compile your language. It’s like wearing someone else’s underwear.

fuzztester · 6 days ago

or interpret

rootnod3 · 6 days ago

The metacircular evaluator shows how code is data and data is code.

And in a way it’s like Maxwell’s equations. A simple proof of computation that also somehow implements a very neat language.

Y_Y · 6 days ago

But of course you must close the loop by representing Maxwell's equations electromagnetically.

I know this is a classic analogy, but now you've got me wondering, originally Maxwell wrote a messy pile of equations of scalrs, later someone (Gibbs?) gave them the familiar vector calculus form. Nowadays we have marvellously general and terse form, like (using the differential of the Hodge dual in naturalised units),

  d star(F) = J

My question is, when are we going to get some super-compact unified representation of `eval`?

wkjagt · 5 days ago

I clicked on this and immediately wanted to buy it. But then someone in the comments said to also look at your other books and well damn, now I want to read all of them and I can't choose which to start with.

nils-m-holm · 5 days ago

You don't have to buy them all at once! :)

And then, at least for the compiler books, there is: http://t3x.org/files/whichbook.pdf

That's super helpful! I downloaded the samples for S9fES and LfN, checking those out first. I love how generous you are with the number of pages in the free samples by the way.