I live in the Netherlands, where the average teenager used to ride a regular Dutch city bike. Internal hub, no-frills bicycles.
Nowadays, however, fat e-bikes are all the rage among that age group. They are quickly becoming extremely popular, and are essentially electric scooters without plates or registration. Many of them require little or no effort to pedal, and can carry up to two riders in them. These are also designed to meet regulations, while also being able to easily be modified to circumvent them, such as removing speed restrictions, and removing the need to pedal itself.
This is also reflected in the shape of these things, which generally does not account for ergonomics. Their seat and handlebars are usually fixed in place. They appear to be designed without pedaling in mind, as exerting effort without proper ergonomics would quickly become uncomfortable and painful. You can actually see some such bikes in the linked article.
Time will tell whether this is truly healthy to them, but I have a hard time believing this to be the case. I think the fat bike demographic might start putting on weight.
United States, obviously. Article makes zero pretence being about anything other than that and it's stated right there in the opening paragraph: "among America’s youth".
Before the "fat bike" phenomena the same demographic used to ride around in "snorfiets" scooters which were theoretically limited to 25 km/h, but pretty much everyone modified for speeds of up to 50 km/h.
But somehow the Dutch have this collective amnesia on the topic, and today nobody remembers how the "snorfiets" problem of 10-15 years ago has pretty much disappeared, to be replaced by a quieter and safer mode of transport (even ilegally modified E-Bikes usually fall far short of modified "snorfiets" speeds).
> [...]appear to be designed without pedaling in mind,
> as exerting effort without proper ergonomics would
> quickly become uncomfortable and painful.
This is a trend in E-Bike design in general, which makes sense. When they first came out manufacturers were just adding a motor and battery to existing designs.
The "fat bike" design is something that wouldn't work well unassisted, because it trades a severe increase in rolling resistance for better ride comfort.
But as a clean sheet design it makes more sense than the alternative. Why incorporate a complex suspension design (which, to be fair, some of them also have), when you can just have the tire absorb the bumps in the road? The marginal cost in electricity is trivial.
> This is a trend in E-Bike design in general, which makes sense. When they first came out manufacturers were just adding a motor and battery to existing designs.
It's only a trend because people are not using them like bikes. The people who still want to pedal but need help because of illness, old age or too-long-distances for normal cycling often purchase actual bicycles which use normal bike parts.
> The "fat bike" design is something that wouldn't work well unassisted, because it trades a severe increase in rolling resistance for better ride comfort.
That is an understatement. People would quickly develop knee and/or lower back pain if they had to put any effort for any meaningful distance.
> Before the "fat bike" phenomena the same demographic used to ride around in "snorfiets" scooters which were theoretically limited to 25 km/h, but pretty much everyone modified for speeds of up to 50 km/h.
The difference is, of course, that a snorfiets/bromfiets requires a driving license (AB) and a fatbike does not, nor does it have any age restriction. A classic case of the legislator not keeping up.
> (even ilegally modified E-Bikes usually fall far short of modified "snorfiets" speeds).
Class 1 e-bikes are limited to 32 km/h here, but simple mods push them well above 50 km/h.
Many of these bikes are designed to be hacked, with unlocked power output significantly higher than the locked output. It’s a selling point and a key part of reviews.
> These are also designed to meet regulations, while also being able to easily be modified to circumvent them, such as removing speed restrictions, and removing the need to pedal itself.
This is the trend near me: Kids buy hackable e-bike, immediately unlock it, and then ride their new electric scooter (motorcycle) around pretending it’s an e-bike.
There’s a separated mixed use bike path parallel to a road on my commute. It’s typical to see e-bike kids driving up it faster than the road traffic on the road, while pedestrians and families jump to the side.
Yeah, those fatbikes are just the latest iteration of the old little scooters (bromfiets) with the small win of being more quiet. I feel like the size of them and the seating arrangement should enable them to legislate fat bikes as scooters while only catching a small number of modified pushbikes that the police would likely ignore when the cyclist isn't being a nuisance.
They'll definitely gain weight, it is quite easy to tell that they aren't exerting much effort during pedal assist.
Yeah, very easy to spot if you pay a bit of attention to the lower back muscles. They are basically not being engaged.
Tire noise is enormous though. I think their tires are made / selected with this in mind, as young males often do like to get attention. Most e-scooters are way quieter than these ugly things.
I also live here, and while i agree Dutch teens should be riding regular bikes, we here are in the extremest of minorities around the world in terms of what teens would be doing without e bikes
> They appear to be designed without pedaling in mind, as exerting effort without proper ergonomics would quickly become uncomfortable and painful. You can actually see some such bikes in the linked article.
Came here to write exactly that. Those who design those bikes clearly don't know a thing about bicycle design. Want to use them for pedaling? Say hi to knee problems and inefficient pedaling!
Four comments and only one seems to be related to the article.
The article is about "touching on independence, mental health, social behavior, and even environmental awareness" just as much as not sitting on your butt inside.
It talks about car culture and social challenges. It recommends class 1 e-bikes so you still have to pedal (no throttle). Yes e-bikes are "cheating" the exercise of cycling, but teens aren't getting e-bikes to go cycling they are getting them to travel without asking somebody to drive them.
Throttle e-bikes are a bit of a menace in my area, but that's whatever. If more people can get outside and enjoy life that's a huge win.
> This type of group riding brings back real-world socialization, which is especially crucial right now.
> many teens haven’t yet learned the road rules,
There are few nations in the world that respect cycling as a mode of transportation enough to legislate that cyclists are permitted to ride two abreast (I am only aware of the Netherlands). Instead, in most nations two cyclists out for a "convivial" trip together are forced to ride single file while two seat wide vehicles operated typically by a single driver in a vehicle wider than two bicycles riding abreast speed merrily by.
> The article is about "touching on independence, mental health, social behavior, and even environmental awareness" just as much as not sitting on your butt inside.
Teenagers in the rest of the developed world are also spending increasing amounts of time in front of screens despite not have the constraints imposed by American car culture. E-bikes might have removed one barrier, but that does solve the problem.
Kids where I live often, maybe usually, walk or take busses to school. If they pay monthly through the app they get unlimited bus travel in the county. Its not atypical in the UK, and its even easier (albeit more expensive) in big cities. We still have kids spending all their time doom scrolling.
I think it is a combination of over-protective parents and addictive stuff on their phones that is the real problem.
Ebikes are a definite menace here, and e-scooters are worse.
> It recommends class 1 e-bikes so you still have to pedal (no throttle).
Where I live, the trend is either to buy an electric motorcycle and ride it around as if it was a bike (on sidewalks, bike trails, crosswalks) or to buy a hackable e-bike and unlock the power limit and add a throttle.
The interest in real class 1 e-bikes seems minimal. The hacked e-bike and electric motorcycle people are making bike paths and trails much more dangerous for everyone.
Even the normal e-bike people have seemingly forgotten that there are rules. I had to jump out of the way of a middle aged woman who blew through a stop sign on her e-bike and turned right straight into us pedestrians. It’s common to see e-bike riders jumping between the sidewalk, road, and crosswalks as convenient and blowing through the four way stop by my house.
Hmmm. Back in the day it was normal bikes that did all that. Young people can attain the necessary fitness easily.
I fear that once started on an e-bike, with all the benefits the article lists, the one thing that may never happen is changing to a conventional bike later. For example, some serious mountain biking Youtube channels I watch point out that electric mountain bikes are just as good at the cool stuff (berms, jumps etc) but simply take the drudgery out of getting to the top of the hill in the first place. If a less fit teenager on an e-MTB is seen as cooler than a more fit one on a conventional MTB... you know what will happen. The conventional crowd, though fitter, will be seen like the poor Android cousins to the "right coulour texting bubble" iPhone crowd.
I had a 67 year old lady shoot in front of my jeep last week on one of these while listening to iPods, obviously flying into a crosswalk full speed. She ended up flipping over her handle bars when she saw me, had road rash from head to ankles and her calf separated from her leg bone. She's never fully recovering from that spill. Lucky she wasn't on blood thinner or she might not have made it.
Our local bike trails allow them in certain sections and it's wild to see old people just zipping around. Our paths are single track but traffic both directions. Not sure what's going on, they have zero awareness, especially for someone that's made it to 70.
Yeah, I'm 60+ and the ebike is good fun and also pretty practical as transport in cities. When I was a teen I was fine with pedaling but have slowed a tad.
This is cute, but the real reason our teens are inactive & unsocial is because of awful zoning laws + exurban sprawl. It’s not realistically possible to meet your friends anywhere, their homes are too far away & there aren’t any third-spaces to spend time at.
In Houston, my girlfriend and I share a car since I work from home and she doesn't which is sufficient for 95% of our needs.
Yesterday I went to a meetup.com board game night by myself while she was at work and the only option was to take a $17 Uber there even though I live as central as you can get (central means very little in a place like Houston).
It's especially ridiculous after living in Mexico City which has world class mass transit and the liberation to go where you want with nothing but 5 pesos. Houston's mayor calls cyclists "activists" and routinely rips out or rejects bus and bike lanes. Huge lifestyle downgrade, but I love her and this is where she got a job.
It’s all relative I guess. In the Netherlands which has a strong cycling culture, the e-bikes are seen by many as a negative - reducing the amount of exercise kids would otherwise get. It also emphasizes a rich/poor divide (which the Dutch are extra allergic to) where well-off kids have e-bikes and the others regular bikes.
From what I can tell looking at teenagers in the Netherlands: healthy kids have normal bicycles; kids who actually have to cycle 20km from some village to get to school often get e-bikes (somewhat sensible); those with upper middle class parents living in the suburbs get regular e-bikes too (pointless); lower socio-economic classes get their kid a Chinese fatbike.
How will we demonstrate the Doppler effect to kids now?!
I haven't lived in NL for about ten years, but I still have PTST from these 100dB mopeds at 4am. Whatever else can be said about e-bikes: mopeds will not be missed.
I moved to the black forest, germany. Rather hilly - but you see as many e-bikes as bio-bikes when being in the woods. Teens use their bikes to drive to school and e-bikes are definitely slowly taking over. When kids live 20-30km away from school I can relate, but not for a short commute. On the other side, they want to use their e-bike as a sport utility in their free time, so they don’t have 2 separate bikes.
I'm pro e-bike for reasons other people have mentioned:
-It's a big win for the elderly and out of shape who otherwise would not be getting that exercise and fresh air at all. I have a friend who's Aunt has a heart problem and apperently otherwise wouldn't be unable to bike without an e-bike.
-It brings many new people into the orbit of biking that otherwise wouldn't. The more bikers the more demand for good bike infrastructure, and the fewer cars on the road, and the more attractive biking becomes as a means of transport in a virtuous cycle. This could be huge.
Though I do worry about a few things:
-I think with its battery an e-bike is significantly more of an issue when people do stupid things like throw bikes in rivers/lakes/ponds. Even if this weren't common in places it still needs a good end of life for recycling.
-I do think maybe some people will be so used to an e-bike smoothing out the ride that they will never go to a full bike, but this may be a relatively low number (e.g. many people choose to bike over driving because they want to exercise)
-Many people on e-bikes in my area are a bit of a menace. Because it takes no effort to use, people fly around at max speed (well above the limit posted on our bike paths) and e-bikes are heavy; if someone gets hit it might seriously injure them. I think it may end up giving them a bad reputation if they aren't managed well.
yeah on the one hand there are clearly good things about them.
But just solely from my own actual personal lived experience, they are making my rides less enjoyable on a daily basis.
I’m hoping much of it will be ironed out over time as etiquette catches up. But I dunno, once the masses flood any given environment it tends to become permanently worse.
Readit News
I live in the Netherlands, where the average teenager used to ride a regular Dutch city bike. Internal hub, no-frills bicycles.
Nowadays, however, fat e-bikes are all the rage among that age group. They are quickly becoming extremely popular, and are essentially electric scooters without plates or registration. Many of them require little or no effort to pedal, and can carry up to two riders in them. These are also designed to meet regulations, while also being able to easily be modified to circumvent them, such as removing speed restrictions, and removing the need to pedal itself.
This is also reflected in the shape of these things, which generally does not account for ergonomics. Their seat and handlebars are usually fixed in place. They appear to be designed without pedaling in mind, as exerting effort without proper ergonomics would quickly become uncomfortable and painful. You can actually see some such bikes in the linked article.
Time will tell whether this is truly healthy to them, but I have a hard time believing this to be the case. I think the fat bike demographic might start putting on weight.
United States, obviously. Article makes zero pretence being about anything other than that and it's stated right there in the opening paragraph: "among America’s youth".
But somehow the Dutch have this collective amnesia on the topic, and today nobody remembers how the "snorfiets" problem of 10-15 years ago has pretty much disappeared, to be replaced by a quieter and safer mode of transport (even ilegally modified E-Bikes usually fall far short of modified "snorfiets" speeds).
This is a trend in E-Bike design in general, which makes sense. When they first came out manufacturers were just adding a motor and battery to existing designs.The "fat bike" design is something that wouldn't work well unassisted, because it trades a severe increase in rolling resistance for better ride comfort.
But as a clean sheet design it makes more sense than the alternative. Why incorporate a complex suspension design (which, to be fair, some of them also have), when you can just have the tire absorb the bumps in the road? The marginal cost in electricity is trivial.
It's only a trend because people are not using them like bikes. The people who still want to pedal but need help because of illness, old age or too-long-distances for normal cycling often purchase actual bicycles which use normal bike parts.
> The "fat bike" design is something that wouldn't work well unassisted, because it trades a severe increase in rolling resistance for better ride comfort.
That is an understatement. People would quickly develop knee and/or lower back pain if they had to put any effort for any meaningful distance.
Deleted Comment
The difference is, of course, that a snorfiets/bromfiets requires a driving license (AB) and a fatbike does not, nor does it have any age restriction. A classic case of the legislator not keeping up.
Class 1 e-bikes are limited to 32 km/h here, but simple mods push them well above 50 km/h.
Many of these bikes are designed to be hacked, with unlocked power output significantly higher than the locked output. It’s a selling point and a key part of reviews.
This is the trend near me: Kids buy hackable e-bike, immediately unlock it, and then ride their new electric scooter (motorcycle) around pretending it’s an e-bike.
There’s a separated mixed use bike path parallel to a road on my commute. It’s typical to see e-bike kids driving up it faster than the road traffic on the road, while pedestrians and families jump to the side.
They'll definitely gain weight, it is quite easy to tell that they aren't exerting much effort during pedal assist.
Tire noise is enormous though. I think their tires are made / selected with this in mind, as young males often do like to get attention. Most e-scooters are way quieter than these ugly things.
Deleted Comment
Can't they be regulated based on weight or otherwise the width of the tires?
Came here to write exactly that. Those who design those bikes clearly don't know a thing about bicycle design. Want to use them for pedaling? Say hi to knee problems and inefficient pedaling!
The article is about "touching on independence, mental health, social behavior, and even environmental awareness" just as much as not sitting on your butt inside.
It talks about car culture and social challenges. It recommends class 1 e-bikes so you still have to pedal (no throttle). Yes e-bikes are "cheating" the exercise of cycling, but teens aren't getting e-bikes to go cycling they are getting them to travel without asking somebody to drive them.
Throttle e-bikes are a bit of a menace in my area, but that's whatever. If more people can get outside and enjoy life that's a huge win.
> many teens haven’t yet learned the road rules,
There are few nations in the world that respect cycling as a mode of transportation enough to legislate that cyclists are permitted to ride two abreast (I am only aware of the Netherlands). Instead, in most nations two cyclists out for a "convivial" trip together are forced to ride single file while two seat wide vehicles operated typically by a single driver in a vehicle wider than two bicycles riding abreast speed merrily by.
Let the teens ride side by side.
1: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cycli...
Teenagers in the rest of the developed world are also spending increasing amounts of time in front of screens despite not have the constraints imposed by American car culture. E-bikes might have removed one barrier, but that does solve the problem.
Kids where I live often, maybe usually, walk or take busses to school. If they pay monthly through the app they get unlimited bus travel in the county. Its not atypical in the UK, and its even easier (albeit more expensive) in big cities. We still have kids spending all their time doom scrolling.
I think it is a combination of over-protective parents and addictive stuff on their phones that is the real problem.
Ebikes are a definite menace here, and e-scooters are worse.
Where I live, the trend is either to buy an electric motorcycle and ride it around as if it was a bike (on sidewalks, bike trails, crosswalks) or to buy a hackable e-bike and unlock the power limit and add a throttle.
The interest in real class 1 e-bikes seems minimal. The hacked e-bike and electric motorcycle people are making bike paths and trails much more dangerous for everyone.
Even the normal e-bike people have seemingly forgotten that there are rules. I had to jump out of the way of a middle aged woman who blew through a stop sign on her e-bike and turned right straight into us pedestrians. It’s common to see e-bike riders jumping between the sidewalk, road, and crosswalks as convenient and blowing through the four way stop by my house.
I fear that once started on an e-bike, with all the benefits the article lists, the one thing that may never happen is changing to a conventional bike later. For example, some serious mountain biking Youtube channels I watch point out that electric mountain bikes are just as good at the cool stuff (berms, jumps etc) but simply take the drudgery out of getting to the top of the hill in the first place. If a less fit teenager on an e-MTB is seen as cooler than a more fit one on a conventional MTB... you know what will happen. The conventional crowd, though fitter, will be seen like the poor Android cousins to the "right coulour texting bubble" iPhone crowd.
My 70 year old, double-ankle replacement mother who I don't remember ever walking very comfortably bought an ebike a couple of years back.
The sheer joy on her face watching her whizz up a hill made me realise just how transformational these things can be.
Our local bike trails allow them in certain sections and it's wild to see old people just zipping around. Our paths are single track but traffic both directions. Not sure what's going on, they have zero awareness, especially for someone that's made it to 70.
She learned at 70 a lesson she never got to learn as a teenager! She probably has some badass scars.
That’s on my slow mountain bike, which I ride for comfort some days. But it’s still a weird experience.
Teens + other able bodied people are inactive for reasons unrelated to ease of pedaling.
Deleted Comment
Yesterday I went to a meetup.com board game night by myself while she was at work and the only option was to take a $17 Uber there even though I live as central as you can get (central means very little in a place like Houston).
It's especially ridiculous after living in Mexico City which has world class mass transit and the liberation to go where you want with nothing but 5 pesos. Houston's mayor calls cyclists "activists" and routinely rips out or rejects bus and bike lanes. Huge lifestyle downgrade, but I love her and this is where she got a job.
Mopeds are becoming increasingly rare.
How will we demonstrate the Doppler effect to kids now?!
I haven't lived in NL for about ten years, but I still have PTST from these 100dB mopeds at 4am. Whatever else can be said about e-bikes: mopeds will not be missed.
-It's a big win for the elderly and out of shape who otherwise would not be getting that exercise and fresh air at all. I have a friend who's Aunt has a heart problem and apperently otherwise wouldn't be unable to bike without an e-bike.
-It brings many new people into the orbit of biking that otherwise wouldn't. The more bikers the more demand for good bike infrastructure, and the fewer cars on the road, and the more attractive biking becomes as a means of transport in a virtuous cycle. This could be huge.
Though I do worry about a few things:
-I think with its battery an e-bike is significantly more of an issue when people do stupid things like throw bikes in rivers/lakes/ponds. Even if this weren't common in places it still needs a good end of life for recycling.
-I do think maybe some people will be so used to an e-bike smoothing out the ride that they will never go to a full bike, but this may be a relatively low number (e.g. many people choose to bike over driving because they want to exercise)
-Many people on e-bikes in my area are a bit of a menace. Because it takes no effort to use, people fly around at max speed (well above the limit posted on our bike paths) and e-bikes are heavy; if someone gets hit it might seriously injure them. I think it may end up giving them a bad reputation if they aren't managed well.
Edited for formatting
But just solely from my own actual personal lived experience, they are making my rides less enjoyable on a daily basis.
I’m hoping much of it will be ironed out over time as etiquette catches up. But I dunno, once the masses flood any given environment it tends to become permanently worse.
As a paid Lime bike user, I don't mind this.
Unpaid, they are terrible heavy bikes - but that is clearly better than no-bike.
Lime already somewhat violates social contracts by having their bikes everywhere.