My washing machine broke down. I need a replacement. I must avoid getting a "smart" one though. Are there any lists of products that arent "smart" so I can know which models are viable options to buy? Or other resources? I'm based in Ireland.
No motel microwave is “smart”. No commercial kitchen is going to have the line cooks installing “apps”.
BUT BE AWARE that commercial items have different requirements and tradeoffs! You need to research them before buying. Some may matter to you, some may be a safety issue, some may be technically or actually illegal to run at home.
For example, commercial ovens may look similar to your home oven, but have zero insulation anywhere and NOT be designed to be installed next to anything except solid metal.
But commercial and used commercial can be great. You can still get zero smarts devices, like microwaves with literally no computers in them, just a timer dial.
You can also import many from the USA, but you’d have to check power requirements very carefully. Commercial equipment is often available in 240v in the USA but it may not be self-switching.
But be aware that commercial dishwashers work - but even if you don’t get a massive Hobart machine that they’re designed for speed, not energy efficiency or silent operation.
> but have zero insulation anywhere and NOT be designed to be installed next to anything except solid metal.
This seems odd, it seems intuitive that it would reduce running costs to have some insulation? To lower energy costs by not having the oven work harder to maintain a given temperature.
Is the ability to shed heat a priority? That is, being able to cook item A at 250 C and then cook item B at 150 C in rapid succession.
In the restaurant kitchens I've been to (small sample size), it was HOT. We're talking AC running on full blast, and it's still very sauna-like.
I understand that the lack of insulation might be the cause of this, at least partially. But since it's already typically very hot in the kitchen, I can see why makers won't add external insulation: the unit passively losing heat might not be a real issue in production.
(Re: ability to shed heat: I know confectioners need high level of precision in temps, the rest of the industry likely doesn't have this as a hard requirement.)
Most appliances like washing machines are "smart-optional" at most, and can just be used as a regular appliance if you don't want all the "smart" stuff. There are also many without any "smart" features. It's different for TVs and such, but for household appliances all of this is not really a big deal.
I know you're intending to be helpful with your response, but I think it can be a bit condescending to respond to someone who says they need a non-smart appliance by telling them a smart one will do.
We're probably all familiar with the XY problem, but I think we must also beware the XY problem-problem, where a posed problem is inappropriately identified as an XY problem and a good question is not given a good answer. (See also: much of Stack Overflow)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem
Every feature that is added, even if you don't use them, is another piece of tech that can break and potentially be non-serviceable. I've several times now had to repair or replace major appliances in the first 3-5 years of use because of logic boards and such that were unrelated to the core functionality of the appliances.
Granted, not everyone wants or cares to minimize waste when it comes to objects of convenience, but plenty of folks want the option... and yes, I do realize I sound like "your father who bought fancy cars with manual windows because it's one less thing that can break." :) My own father was that kind of person.
My problem with "smart optional" devices is that even in that case, the "smart" parts can have knock-on effects.
For example, the AC unit I bought, resets any settings changes from the front panel if you power cycle it, unless you configure them in the web interface.
My new microwave with a "child safety" lock has a button combination you can use to disable the lock, but it forgets that setting on losing power, so you have to perpetually keep the sequence needed around if you ever have brownouts or blackouts.
And, of course, if you just ignore it, it might be waiting for someone to come by with the right bluetooth or 802.11 network or s/t and use any "optional features" however they like...
The fact that it might query a firmware update if you’re not careful to never allow it to communicate outward is enough of a risk. I don’t want my appliances querying firmware updates that might brick the unit or give engineers excuses too not get it right the first time. I’ve seen what product owners do when there are known bugs but they want to ship because the user can just update later.
There is functionality hidden in the app, so that the manufacturer can save a dime and a half on some buttons. Unfortunately, this line has already been crossed.
The functionality that is hidden: Rinse, Machine Care (self-cleaning), HalfLoad, Eco and Delay start.
Jeff bought that dishwasher based on its Consumer Reports ratings. They must have taken his criticism into account, because it is now far from the top rated dishwasher and includes a disclosure about requiring an app.
I trust Consumer Reports and would never buy an appliance without consulting them, but it doesn't surprise me that they're a little conservative and wouldn't realize they need to call this stuff out initially.
The problem is not that you have more functionality in the app. It's that all the evil people that have designed (not implemented, the drones that write the code rarely have the right to express opinion or provide common sense in big corporate) this idiocy require you to have online account with them, for reasons unknown. This functionality should be local. Bluetooth works fine.
Yes, it's not like they come with a cell phone modem like smart cars do. You can just choose to not download the app and not give it the wifi password.
Is this so hard in your locale? When I browse the top three recommended washing machines on a popular Dutch appliances seller, only the third (Samsung) actually has some app functionality. The other two (Bosch, AEG) are just normal washing machines.
(The division there is currently 64 with app, 43 without. The models without appear to score higher in the reviews.)
Interesting, I was sure they would all have some kind of wifi these days. I think my parents have the Bosch, it's pretty good. I just find it weird that they have two input methods, the turning wheel and tip touch buttons that don't really respond well.
Mind you, I have 'regular' buttons that don't respond well either.
Coolblue has good service and installers and stuff, but I find they have a (probably intentionally) limited range of stuff they sell. But that's fine, I really have no interest in e.g. the bottom of the price range for appliances.
Our stove insists it can't implement several advertised features unless we let it at our wifi and "enable" the features. Fukdat, a stove does not need to be a network citizen, it needs to bake cookies. For me.
Then again, maybe I could hack it to host a Mastodon instance or run Doom.
Try searching Reddit, I just found some lists. I’ve given up and instead just don’t allow things on my network. My “smart” TV begs me to see the network but I just use a Roku instead. I fear it’s come to this where we have to circumvent our own devices desperate need for connectivity.
Hope there is no programmed issue built in. I have had devices stop working after some time saying it's been more than X years since I last updated the software and it then refuses to run. :-(
30 or more years ago I was at a law firm that had some specialized software to pump out the paperwork for residential mortgages. Every so often it would throw an error and refuse to run, which made it really popular with the paralegals who were trying to churn out a dozen mortgages a day. I called the software company. "Oh, that's not a real error, we just prefer that customers check in every so often." I called them many foul names and found out how to disable that shit. Another company sold us perverted Xerox 635 daisywheel printers that were EPROM'd to only work with their particular shitty app-specific typewheels. I had a buddy with an EEPROM burner, and we had several unperverted 635s from which we could draw clean copies. We burned new chips for every printer in the building (65 of them). And back then there wasn't shit the vendor could do. Overnight we repurposed the printers for use with regular PCs and our cost for new METAL xerox typewheels was far less.
For the moment my big ass LG oled TV still works fine without agreeing to it selling my soul and listening in on my living room, but if it ever does cause issues I'll look into jailbreaking it and hooking up an external media player.
If it's a Maytag, Whirlpool or another older super-reliable machine then you might consider fixing it yourself (if you're handy with tools) or finding someone to fix it. If you want to replace it with a good washer, then know that there are shops who sell rebuilt/refurbished models of the most trustworthy appliances.
Meanwhile for DIY-ers, parts are usually available and there are YouTube videos on most major models (telling you which models are best, how to fix/maintain them, how to run them, etc.).
We have a Whirlpool Ultimate Care II that is about 50 years old and has been thru 4 generations of people. I've worked on it twice: once to replace a switch and the second time to replace some ratchet gears. Repairmen have also worked on it in my absence. Like most of the older washers, it's designed to be easy to dismantle and repair. It washes more gently than any other washer I've seen: consequently our clothes last longer. Wish the software I use was as easy to fix.
I replaced the pulley drum belt with a kit and the squeaky roller wheels for my whirlpool dryer.
That thing is a tank and so easy to service!
I’m just scared it will fail catastrophically some day and the gas burner will ignite the garage. Do you know how safe an old gas burning whirlpool dryer is compared to modern gas dryers? The whirlpool can get super hot and basically bake my clothes if I want.
- have a professional check out your dryer periodically,
- clean the lint trap every cycle and
- periodically clear lint out of the exhaust duct (all the way to the duct's exit).
OTOH I personally would not use a gas dryer in a home. While gas is faster drying and lower cost, an electric dryer is simpler and less worrisome. Sometimes "Less is more." And if you prefer an older electrical model, they are available! Perhaps a re-furbisher would take your gas dryer in trade?
The last two maintenance items above should be done for electric dryers too, since electric dryers can ignite trapped lint as well as can gas.
I feel you. The moment I see a "smart" product, I walk away. With that in mind, I stick to the most basic of home appliances. Given that you are in the EU, you might wanna consider something like Gorenje - a Slovenian company, they make plenty of "smart" appliances but they also offer the good old analogue stuff. All my appliances at home are from them, nothing smart, nothing wifi connected, awesome build quality, good looking, reliable and an awesome value for money. Oven, fridge and washing machine combined set me back less than 2k. The downside in my case was that the ones I got were not the most efficient in terms of electricity but I can live with that.
No motel microwave is “smart”. No commercial kitchen is going to have the line cooks installing “apps”.
BUT BE AWARE that commercial items have different requirements and tradeoffs! You need to research them before buying. Some may matter to you, some may be a safety issue, some may be technically or actually illegal to run at home.
For example, commercial ovens may look similar to your home oven, but have zero insulation anywhere and NOT be designed to be installed next to anything except solid metal.
But commercial and used commercial can be great. You can still get zero smarts devices, like microwaves with literally no computers in them, just a timer dial.
You can also import many from the USA, but you’d have to check power requirements very carefully. Commercial equipment is often available in 240v in the USA but it may not be self-switching.
But be aware that commercial dishwashers work - but even if you don’t get a massive Hobart machine that they’re designed for speed, not energy efficiency or silent operation.
This seems odd, it seems intuitive that it would reduce running costs to have some insulation? To lower energy costs by not having the oven work harder to maintain a given temperature.
Is the ability to shed heat a priority? That is, being able to cook item A at 250 C and then cook item B at 150 C in rapid succession.
I understand that the lack of insulation might be the cause of this, at least partially. But since it's already typically very hot in the kitchen, I can see why makers won't add external insulation: the unit passively losing heat might not be a real issue in production.
(Re: ability to shed heat: I know confectioners need high level of precision in temps, the rest of the industry likely doesn't have this as a hard requirement.)
Even a home oven will eventually get quite hot on the sides if you cook all day.
I (UK) bought this (https://ao.com/product/wnc25410gb-bosch-series-8-idos-washer...) Bosch one a few months ago and it is perfectly usable without enabling any of the smart capabilities though. I haven't connected mine to wi-fi at all.
We're probably all familiar with the XY problem, but I think we must also beware the XY problem-problem, where a posed problem is inappropriately identified as an XY problem and a good question is not given a good answer. (See also: much of Stack Overflow) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem
Granted, not everyone wants or cares to minimize waste when it comes to objects of convenience, but plenty of folks want the option... and yes, I do realize I sound like "your father who bought fancy cars with manual windows because it's one less thing that can break." :) My own father was that kind of person.
For example, the AC unit I bought, resets any settings changes from the front panel if you power cycle it, unless you configure them in the web interface.
My new microwave with a "child safety" lock has a button combination you can use to disable the lock, but it forgets that setting on losing power, so you have to perpetually keep the sequence needed around if you ever have brownouts or blackouts.
And, of course, if you just ignore it, it might be waiting for someone to come by with the right bluetooth or 802.11 network or s/t and use any "optional features" however they like...
There is functionality hidden in the app, so that the manufacturer can save a dime and a half on some buttons. Unfortunately, this line has already been crossed.
The functionality that is hidden: Rinse, Machine Care (self-cleaning), HalfLoad, Eco and Delay start.
I trust Consumer Reports and would never buy an appliance without consulting them, but it doesn't surprise me that they're a little conservative and wouldn't realize they need to call this stuff out initially.
(The division there is currently 64 with app, 43 without. The models without appear to score higher in the reviews.)
Mind you, I have 'regular' buttons that don't respond well either.
Then again, maybe I could hack it to host a Mastodon instance or run Doom.
Doom might be dangerous, though.
And I would ask the maximum allowed with fraud, by law.
18 U.S. Code § 1030.
Meanwhile for DIY-ers, parts are usually available and there are YouTube videos on most major models (telling you which models are best, how to fix/maintain them, how to run them, etc.).
We have a Whirlpool Ultimate Care II that is about 50 years old and has been thru 4 generations of people. I've worked on it twice: once to replace a switch and the second time to replace some ratchet gears. Repairmen have also worked on it in my absence. Like most of the older washers, it's designed to be easy to dismantle and repair. It washes more gently than any other washer I've seen: consequently our clothes last longer. Wish the software I use was as easy to fix.
That thing is a tank and so easy to service!
I’m just scared it will fail catastrophically some day and the gas burner will ignite the garage. Do you know how safe an old gas burning whirlpool dryer is compared to modern gas dryers? The whirlpool can get super hot and basically bake my clothes if I want.
- have a professional check out your dryer periodically,
- clean the lint trap every cycle and
- periodically clear lint out of the exhaust duct (all the way to the duct's exit).
OTOH I personally would not use a gas dryer in a home. While gas is faster drying and lower cost, an electric dryer is simpler and less worrisome. Sometimes "Less is more." And if you prefer an older electrical model, they are available! Perhaps a re-furbisher would take your gas dryer in trade?
The last two maintenance items above should be done for electric dryers too, since electric dryers can ignite trapped lint as well as can gas.
See https://www.envistaforensics.com/knowledge-center/insights/a...
I particularly like their suggestion to put a smoke alarm above the dryer, which I will do today!