Speaking as an academic from the UK, there has been a growing sentiment of weariness about spending time in the US. From hallway jokes about getting snatched at the border and spending two weeks in detention camps, to people re-evaluating their conference and career choices to avoid the US, this marks a major shift in the mindset of the current generation of PhD students and early-career academics that will probably have untold implications for long-term research and innovation horizons...
Every year I spend some time with PhD students from my alma mater (we play CTFs) and it's always a good opportunity to see how their research is going, or what grants they've been getting, or which conference they're trying to frantically submit to.
They're still doing research, and the funding hasn't completely dried up. But a lot of the people I talked to were international students, and the gallows humor of being deported was palpable. Made a slightly illegal turn in the van? Better make sure the cops didn't see you, or ICE is going to deport you back to where you came from. Hiring is completely frozen, and there is talk of potentially cutting down or "asking" students to graduate early. I overheard one of the professors talking to another about their students who were in limbo because their visas had been cancelled. It's pretty grim.
> ...messages discussing the Trump administration’s treatment of scientists had been found. The researcher was reportedly then accused of writings “that reflect hatred toward Trump and can be described as terrorism”.
Everything that doesn't fit official government line is an extremism and terrorism. It has been that way in Russia and other authoritarian countries. Looks like that is getting imported into US, and without any tariffs at that. I'm perplexed though why does the US population want it (i live in CA, and that doesn't help understanding the whole US population), especially giving that any of those authoritarian countries is also orders of magnitude worse than US economy-wise (even the economy poster-child China has per capita GDP just 1/7th of that of US).
"The French researcher in question was in possession of confidential information on his electronic device from Los Alamos National Laboratory— in violation of a non-disclosure agreement—something he admitted to taking without permission and attempted to conceal.
Any claim that his removal was based on political beliefs is blatantly false."
> This measure was apparently taken by the American authorities because the researcher’s phone contained exchanges with colleagues and friends in which he expressed a personal opinion on the Trump administration’s research policy
So they check all your messages at the border? Do they dump your entire phone or what is happening there?
You should keep in mind that the media isn't unbiased. It's mostly owned by global corporations that want to continue profiting from labor arbitrage, who don't always give us all the details.
For example: the Canadian woman who was detained at the border. Not many people heard that she was working here illegally (self-employed while here under a TN visa that doesn't allow that).
Edit: I call it arbitrage because (oversimplifying) they manufacture a product for one hour of labor in one country and sell it for one hour of labor in a different country. It's only viable because it takes advantage of a difference in wages between the labor markets.
I don't know if Americans are grasping how much the attitude is changing outside of the US.
My mom has booked a multithousand dollar vacation on a cruise set to depart from Florida. They would only be there for a few days.
They are still asking the company to just fly to the first non-US stop and then board. And crazy enough the company might actually accomodate this since hundreds of people have inquired according the agent she talked to.
People really distrust the US government now.
As we Dutch say: trust arrives on foot and leaves on horseback.
I think the perception of America was just as critical, or even moreso, during the GWB presidencies and iraq war. (I imagine nixon and the vietnam war were thought of similarly). There's a tendency for people to have some historical amnesia and think of trump as qualitatively different somehow. But I can assure you that GWB was truly reviled especially in northern europe metro areas, and Americans was viewed then similarly to how it's viewed now.
I'm old enough to know, and no, it's not the same. Bush never claimed that Canada is a US state, never hinted at invading Greenland, never repeated Russian propaganda.
We thought the Gulf War 2 was under false pretenses of "Weapons of Mass Destruction", sure. But what Trump is doing is plain betrayal of trust amongst allies.
Yes, it was bad then, but it's even worse now, because of Trump's attitudes towards Europe, desire to annex Greenland, his coziness with Russia, and his hard-core support for Netanyahu and total disregard for the plight of the Palestinians.
If the government does not need to prove to a judge that you are not a legal citizen BEFORE they have any right to move you, there is no such thing as due process.
ANY violation of "innocent until proven guilty" makes the entire concept null and void. ANY bypass of seeing a judge before punishment means anyone can be punished for anything at any time.
The Constitution is extremely clear that you cannot harm someone's inalienable rights until you have done due process.
You MUST treat any suspect of anything as having all rights enshrined in the Constitution until the state has PROVEN otherwise.
If you defend these deportations at all, you are anti-democratic and anti-constitution. The moment you let the ends justify the means, you threw away democracy.
Literal serial killers and assassin-wannabees are entitled to all constitutional rights before they have been convicted. The only acceptable option is if everyone is assumed a fully legal resident until you prove otherwise.
If you support the deportation of these people because they are gang members, whether that is even true or not, without them getting due process, you are the Bad Guys
Incredible to see this play out here and good to see that this got unflagged now. I only saw this earlier (while this submission was still flagged) due to someone somewhere else mention that https://news.ycombinator.com/active exists.
Probably worth keeping an eye on it from time to time to get an idea what did not make the cut for whatever reason.
More on topic, I am wondering if this scenario shows that even wide-spread gun-ownership does not protect against state power (lawful or not). If ICE agents would kept getting shot during these type of arrests by people thinking they are about to get abducted by a gang and using their gun in self-defence, ICE would not do it this way. Therefore I am thinking that the agents are confident that just signalling that they represent a US federal (?) agency is enough to prevent bystanders and arrestees (?) from escalating.
When I was young I thought liberties that we viewed as important were something that was provided to all. That it should not matter where you come from. I still think everyone should strive for this.
> nationalism, ideology based on the premise that the individual’s loyalty and devotion to the nation-state surpass other individual or group interests.
if your highest priority is to the concept and ego of your country, rather than how that country serves its population, then your core values align with the interest of the political establishment and machine rather than with the interests of people. a political establishment's growth and maintenance is damaged by a population's ability to impact it, which means it's damaged by democracy, which means it's damaged by freedom.
That's false. The way you phrased this is that I just need one example to debunk, I'll gladly take the easy win. Here it is: https://freedomhouse.org/country/mongolia
The moment you see it. People will call you crazy, and and an alarmist, and hyperbolic, but it's your duty to call it out and to keep calling it out from the moment you recognize it until it goes away. And don't let anyone tell you you're wrong, because the number one tool of fascists is plausible deniability. They thrive on Hanlon's razor. The love to play in a gray zone, to get you upset, and then to say "you're overreacting" when you call them out for exactly what they're doing. Don't fall for it.
I worked for US companies for over a decade, and travelled there multiple times a year. I worked remotely from my home in the UK as a software engineer and and CTO, including as CTO of a YC startup for a number of years.
I would not travel to the US any longer, it's just not worth the risk. From the outside it's how I imagined Germany looked in the mid 30s, but streamed live in HD.
For context I'm a white British man, and whilst I wouldn't go out of solidarity and disgust at the treatment of people who don't look and talk like me even if I wasn't worried about myself, right now I would also be seriously concerned for my own safety. I wouldn't trust rogue ICE agents to know exactly what things are permissible on an ESTA visa waiver vs B1 vs B1 in lieu of H1B.
Genuinely and without hyperbole, if you have the ability and means to leave for a different country, you should consider it in case it becomes something you can no longer do in the future; even if you don't believe your government will prevent you, I suspect other countries will start making it a lot more difficult for US citizens to get visas in the coming years.
Readit News
They're still doing research, and the funding hasn't completely dried up. But a lot of the people I talked to were international students, and the gallows humor of being deported was palpable. Made a slightly illegal turn in the van? Better make sure the cops didn't see you, or ICE is going to deport you back to where you came from. Hiring is completely frozen, and there is talk of potentially cutting down or "asking" students to graduate early. I overheard one of the professors talking to another about their students who were in limbo because their visas had been cancelled. It's pretty grim.
Weariness
Everything that doesn't fit official government line is an extremism and terrorism. It has been that way in Russia and other authoritarian countries. Looks like that is getting imported into US, and without any tariffs at that. I'm perplexed though why does the US population want it (i live in CA, and that doesn't help understanding the whole US population), especially giving that any of those authoritarian countries is also orders of magnitude worse than US economy-wise (even the economy poster-child China has per capita GDP just 1/7th of that of US).
So they check all your messages at the border? Do they dump your entire phone or what is happening there?
For example: the Canadian woman who was detained at the border. Not many people heard that she was working here illegally (self-employed while here under a TN visa that doesn't allow that).
Edit: I call it arbitrage because (oversimplifying) they manufacture a product for one hour of labor in one country and sell it for one hour of labor in a different country. It's only viable because it takes advantage of a difference in wages between the labor markets.
Dead Comment
Dead Comment
My mom has booked a multithousand dollar vacation on a cruise set to depart from Florida. They would only be there for a few days.
They are still asking the company to just fly to the first non-US stop and then board. And crazy enough the company might actually accomodate this since hundreds of people have inquired according the agent she talked to.
People really distrust the US government now.
As we Dutch say: trust arrives on foot and leaves on horseback.
We thought the Gulf War 2 was under false pretenses of "Weapons of Mass Destruction", sure. But what Trump is doing is plain betrayal of trust amongst allies.
ANY violation of "innocent until proven guilty" makes the entire concept null and void. ANY bypass of seeing a judge before punishment means anyone can be punished for anything at any time.
The Constitution is extremely clear that you cannot harm someone's inalienable rights until you have done due process.
You MUST treat any suspect of anything as having all rights enshrined in the Constitution until the state has PROVEN otherwise.
If you defend these deportations at all, you are anti-democratic and anti-constitution. The moment you let the ends justify the means, you threw away democracy.
Literal serial killers and assassin-wannabees are entitled to all constitutional rights before they have been convicted. The only acceptable option is if everyone is assumed a fully legal resident until you prove otherwise.
If you support the deportation of these people because they are gang members, whether that is even true or not, without them getting due process, you are the Bad Guys
Probably worth keeping an eye on it from time to time to get an idea what did not make the cut for whatever reason.
More on topic, I am wondering if this scenario shows that even wide-spread gun-ownership does not protect against state power (lawful or not). If ICE agents would kept getting shot during these type of arrests by people thinking they are about to get abducted by a gang and using their gun in self-defence, ICE would not do it this way. Therefore I am thinking that the agents are confident that just signalling that they represent a US federal (?) agency is enough to prevent bystanders and arrestees (?) from escalating.
When I was young I thought liberties that we viewed as important were something that was provided to all. That it should not matter where you come from. I still think everyone should strive for this.
Why?
> nationalism, ideology based on the premise that the individual’s loyalty and devotion to the nation-state surpass other individual or group interests.
if your highest priority is to the concept and ego of your country, rather than how that country serves its population, then your core values align with the interest of the political establishment and machine rather than with the interests of people. a political establishment's growth and maintenance is damaged by a population's ability to impact it, which means it's damaged by democracy, which means it's damaged by freedom.
Dead Comment
That's false. The way you phrased this is that I just need one example to debunk, I'll gladly take the easy win. Here it is: https://freedomhouse.org/country/mongolia
I would not travel to the US any longer, it's just not worth the risk. From the outside it's how I imagined Germany looked in the mid 30s, but streamed live in HD.
For context I'm a white British man, and whilst I wouldn't go out of solidarity and disgust at the treatment of people who don't look and talk like me even if I wasn't worried about myself, right now I would also be seriously concerned for my own safety. I wouldn't trust rogue ICE agents to know exactly what things are permissible on an ESTA visa waiver vs B1 vs B1 in lieu of H1B.
Genuinely and without hyperbole, if you have the ability and means to leave for a different country, you should consider it in case it becomes something you can no longer do in the future; even if you don't believe your government will prevent you, I suspect other countries will start making it a lot more difficult for US citizens to get visas in the coming years.