I'm a US scientist and the use of minimalist phone and a laptop is something I'm planning for all my travel.
This is for the simple reason that I have determined, based on a large body of cases that are accumulating at a disturbing rate, that the current US administration considers themselves "above the law". Furthermore, the administration has shown that they are eager to carry out actions that violate due process and freedom of speech against anyone they perceive as opposing their policies/views.
EDIT: I'm happy to document such cases for those who have not been paying attention, but I also encourage those who are doubtful to simply search the many examples that have been posted here on HN (unfortunately, many flagged in an attempt to suppress discussion).
I know this from the European perspective. A lot of companies have policies for US travels for a few years now. Even some government employees on official business in the US, need to drop of their business phone and laptop with IT, before traveling to the US. And pick up a freshly wiped one with limited access, and no data on it.
For some countries like Russia it can be even more strict. They only get laptops not connected to the company network at all, and are only allowed to put a few files onto it via a flash drive. The smartphone is replaced by a feature phone without internet.
> A lot of companies have policies for US travels for a few years now.
I traveled a lot around 2010, long before Trump. Phone searches at the border were common even then. I had to give my passcode to Canada and European countries.
I can attest that this kind of frightening incident did not start with Trump. As a traveler, I heard horror stories back then, but not many people talked about them. I feel like most of the sudden interest in these stories has an obvious motive.
It is probably better to start keeping public lists of surprising incidents, analogously to the way lawyers would summarize case precedent, but applied to the extralegal system. It can be difficult to find old news articles sometimes.
That is not really relevant, because you sort of have to say what's true whatever happens to you, as required at the intersection of the duties of a scientist, of a citizen of a republic, and even on the basis of the basic tenants of the country's majority religion. In some sense to live a steady life you have to be resigned to potential misfortunes, even if you do not want them to happen to you.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
—Martin Niemöller
At some point you have to be brave and face your fears. If you do not, then the light slowly dies and the darkness grows. By putting your head down and hiding you protect yourself but empower the very thing you are hiding from. It is a classic fallacy as you are taking short term rewards at a much higher cost in the long run. What you gain you borrow from the future, interest applies.
However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.
- Stanley Kubrick
Please document one or two cases. Everything I have seen has turned out to be a little more complicated than initially presented.
E.g. This story of the French researcher which started as, "A French scientist has been denied entry into the United States, apparently because the scientist had expressed a personal opinion on the Trump administration's research policy"
In fact turned out to be, "The French researcher in question was in possession of confidential information on his electronic device from Los Alamos National Laboratory — in violation of a non-disclosure agreement— something he admitted to taking without permission and attempted to conceal,”
They found confidential information on his phone as he was attempting to enter the US, and their response was to turn him back instead of detaining him for violating those agreements or espionage?
Does that sound plausible to you? Or even a better argument? If I was fully onboard with America is the only country that matters I would be apoplectic to find out they let a known spy just leave
Hmm it's hard to say which side is true. And if he had stolen info and breached an NDA, why deny him entry? It would have been better to capture him and sue him for this.
Also I find it very hard to believe that random border guards would find such thing during a spot check.
I don’t believe we are reprimanding those who mishandle sensitive information any longer. Anyway, they were just joking when he concealed it. That’s just their ‘weaving’ skills on full display.
Thanks for the link, without this comment I would have totally missed it. Doesn’t change my overall view of what is currently happening but it’s a useful nuance.
Don't gaslight "it's complicated", that's like right out of 1930s Germany where people insisted everything is fine and there was some kind of just cause
We've been though only 60 days now and institution after institution is being completely dismantled.
Health, Education, Science, Weather Service, soon USPS, aid to the world with medication to stop HIV etc and food for children, all gone.
They paid a torture prison to take people out of US jurisdiction so judges couldn't order hearings, there are people who were legit seeking asylum and have obviously never been in a gang or criminals who might never see the light of day again
Russel Vought, Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon are full blown fascists following the Project2025 plan page by page.
Imagine this country in 200 more weeks.
Imagine what's going to go down once Congress and the Supreme Court are out for the summer and can't react quickly enough to all the illegal activities.
It's going to take DECADES to recover from this damage.
One of the important things to watch for is the linkup of the papers please people with the internet scanners. Right now they seem to be limited to seizing your personal effects, but that is a matter of coordination between departments of the government. If there are laws against it, they are adjacent to other laws which were ignored even in previous years. Once that occurs the use of professional use devices will not make the crossing safe.
This is already happening to find out who has been supporting Palenstinians in Gaza, and conflating that as support for Hamas, and then deporting people.
Permanent residents a people with student visas are advised to not travel due to the risks or arbitrary detention, search of social media, and deportation on trumped up charges. This researcher, asked to carry frog embryos by her advisor in the way back from France, has been detained becuase od the paperwork around them and may be deported to a hostile nation on those grounds:
I only link to this one because it's closest to my very narrow area of biology but this sort of thing is happening daily and on even more egregious grounds.
We currently live in an authoritarian state, we just don't all realize it equally, yet.
Sounds like a social credit score derived from your entire online identity.
I hope that picture of reality stays in Black Mirror.
It would represent a huge decline in personal liberty in the West so I’m betting it will be so unpopular as to be impossible, especially as older voters are replaced by digital natives who are aware of the problem.
I think we're seeing right now that at least a decent fraction (even if it's not half) would be for it as long as it targets the right people. I think it's a mistake to think people in general are very tied to specific civil liberties for other people.
> I hope that picture of reality stays in Black Mirror.
Hasn't the Secretary of State said that several hundred people have already been targeted this way? This picture of reality is already real life for many people, their colleagues and their families.
How much can I win betting the 2026 or 2028 elections will look more Russia-like (or Turkey-like) vs. an election that could be called "free and fair"?
Everything can be made popular through the right wing propaganda pipeline, given enough times. Republicans are now happy to see medicaid and medicare taken away, tariffs imposed on everything they buy...
The lady is indeed in trouble, because she apparently broke an explicit regulation: «Biological materials imported through passenger or pedestrian travel must be presented to CBP for inspection» [1]. I very much doubt though that it's a kind of offense that should provide grounds for deportation.
Deportation to the country that would certainly incarcerate her for her political position is a bad idea on may levels; first of all, it's inhumane. If the case really devolves down to the deportation for real, I wonder if some other countries would offer her asylum, because it's definitely better that a prison, especially a prison in Russia.
What I read was that it was a paperwork oversight — it wasn't that she wasn't allowed to bring the materials into the country, it was that she didn't check some kind of box on a form.
Not just that: you have to take the red corridor and allow inspection of the specimens, and have a paper to let you bring them in. I remenber handing an apple to the border check officer on return from Europe, because the apple contained seeds, and uncontrolled plant seeds are a no-no.
"elite institutions devoted to freedom of inquiry and the telling of uncomfortable truths"
That's rich. That hasn't been true for our "elite institutions" for some time now, although I do remember some notable exceptions... University of Chicago comes to mind.
I view the current political situation as a historical rhyme of the bloody wars of religion in Europe that saw Catholics and Protestants murdering each by the millions. As with the C v P wars (or Sunni vs Shia in Islam, or Hindu vs Muslim in India), taking a side is the wrong ethical stance; the right stance is to view it clearly as a brutal tribal struggle, and take steps towards a just and honest peace.
I'm partial to the detached anti-culture war ideaplex myself but I've got a radically different conclusion-- I want them to kill each other. You know, like one of those brutal chess games where there's like 6 pieces on the board by turn 20 sorta bloodbath that you'd need to resurrect someone like Livy to properly describe. I think we'd have a post-WW2 style golden age with all the partisans safely entombed under six feet of earth.
The worst stance of all of course is demonstrated over and over in this thread and HN in general where you have people calling Trump the second coming of Hitler, yet are too fat and comfortable to find the courage to have their actions match their words.
So we'll be getting these types of threads about how HNers need to be carrying burner phones for the next four years -- may god grant us some Sorelian heroes before then.
I hear Canadian's are a nice and respectful people. Though as many as can need to stay behind as true patriots who will __actively vote__ in the every election to try to restore freedom and democracy in America.
I think I know roughly where you're coming from -- I mean we absolutely have our share of bigots in or seeking power -- I don't think you realize how very bad it has gotten in the USA very recently.
I have friends who fit in the categories you are describing, who have definitely put up with some shit occasionally here in Canada that would not dream of even visiting the USA, and know people in the USA who are actively looking to escape northward, in fear for their literal lives.
With a looming election that has a cartoonishly, Trumpian, "populist evil" candidate for the leadership of our country, yeah it could definitely get worse, and even to the same amount quite easily. But at least for now, there's a very real -- though definitely not perfect -- refuge for LGBTQ2A+ of all stripes up here.
I am wondering about hardware keyrings like Yubikeys : From a security point of view is it safe to cross international borders with them ? How do you connect back to your accounts without one when all your devices are based on two-factor authentication if your hardware keyring has been seized when by customs. Could you be detained for not "remembering" the second factor to unlock the keyring ?
You could definitely be denied entry and most likely you would be. In terms of detainment, probably only temporarily until they put you on the plane back. Unless they have serious suspicion of something like terrorism they can't just hold you indefinitely for not cooperating.
Ps IANAL. So take this with a gain of salt but I've never heard of someone actually being jailed for not giving access.
This might be the first semi-plausible consumer use case for smart cards as a second factor. One could, reasonably, conceal a smart card as a health insurance (EHIC) or debit card and pass otherwise adversarial border controls with them.
Its basically a dead letter now, and has been fading for at least 20 years now
>No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Readit News
This is for the simple reason that I have determined, based on a large body of cases that are accumulating at a disturbing rate, that the current US administration considers themselves "above the law". Furthermore, the administration has shown that they are eager to carry out actions that violate due process and freedom of speech against anyone they perceive as opposing their policies/views.
EDIT: I'm happy to document such cases for those who have not been paying attention, but I also encourage those who are doubtful to simply search the many examples that have been posted here on HN (unfortunately, many flagged in an attempt to suppress discussion).
For some countries like Russia it can be even more strict. They only get laptops not connected to the company network at all, and are only allowed to put a few files onto it via a flash drive. The smartphone is replaced by a feature phone without internet.
I traveled a lot around 2010, long before Trump. Phone searches at the border were common even then. I had to give my passcode to Canada and European countries.
I can attest that this kind of frightening incident did not start with Trump. As a traveler, I heard horror stories back then, but not many people talked about them. I feel like most of the sudden interest in these stories has an obvious motive.
I don’t know that I would do that if I was a scientist right now.
Dead Comment
E.g. This story of the French researcher which started as, "A French scientist has been denied entry into the United States, apparently because the scientist had expressed a personal opinion on the Trump administration's research policy"
In fact turned out to be, "The French researcher in question was in possession of confidential information on his electronic device from Los Alamos National Laboratory — in violation of a non-disclosure agreement— something he admitted to taking without permission and attempted to conceal,”
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/21/world/europe/us-france-sc...
Does that sound plausible to you? Or even a better argument? If I was fully onboard with America is the only country that matters I would be apoplectic to find out they let a known spy just leave
Also I find it very hard to believe that random border guards would find such thing during a spot check.
We've been though only 60 days now and institution after institution is being completely dismantled.
Health, Education, Science, Weather Service, soon USPS, aid to the world with medication to stop HIV etc and food for children, all gone.
They paid a torture prison to take people out of US jurisdiction so judges couldn't order hearings, there are people who were legit seeking asylum and have obviously never been in a gang or criminals who might never see the light of day again
Russel Vought, Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon are full blown fascists following the Project2025 plan page by page.
Imagine this country in 200 more weeks.
Imagine what's going to go down once Congress and the Supreme Court are out for the summer and can't react quickly enough to all the illegal activities.
It's going to take DECADES to recover from this damage.
Dead Comment
Permanent residents a people with student visas are advised to not travel due to the risks or arbitrary detention, search of social media, and deportation on trumped up charges. This researcher, asked to carry frog embryos by her advisor in the way back from France, has been detained becuase od the paperwork around them and may be deported to a hostile nation on those grounds:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/27/russian-scie...
I only link to this one because it's closest to my very narrow area of biology but this sort of thing is happening daily and on even more egregious grounds.
We currently live in an authoritarian state, we just don't all realize it equally, yet.
I hope that picture of reality stays in Black Mirror.
It would represent a huge decline in personal liberty in the West so I’m betting it will be so unpopular as to be impossible, especially as older voters are replaced by digital natives who are aware of the problem.
People have said the same thing about gutting Social Security, but it seems like that's on the chopping block right now unfortunately.
Hasn't the Secretary of State said that several hundred people have already been targeted this way? This picture of reality is already real life for many people, their colleagues and their families.
How much can I win betting the 2026 or 2028 elections will look more Russia-like (or Turkey-like) vs. an election that could be called "free and fair"?
Deportation to the country that would certainly incarcerate her for her political position is a bad idea on may levels; first of all, it's inhumane. If the case really devolves down to the deportation for real, I wonder if some other countries would offer her asylum, because it's definitely better that a prison, especially a prison in Russia.
[1]: https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/protecting-agriculture/i...
What I read was that it was a paperwork oversight — it wasn't that she wasn't allowed to bring the materials into the country, it was that she didn't check some kind of box on a form.
That's rich. That hasn't been true for our "elite institutions" for some time now, although I do remember some notable exceptions... University of Chicago comes to mind.
The worst stance of all of course is demonstrated over and over in this thread and HN in general where you have people calling Trump the second coming of Hitler, yet are too fat and comfortable to find the courage to have their actions match their words.
So we'll be getting these types of threads about how HNers need to be carrying burner phones for the next four years -- may god grant us some Sorelian heroes before then.
Dead Comment
I have friends who fit in the categories you are describing, who have definitely put up with some shit occasionally here in Canada that would not dream of even visiting the USA, and know people in the USA who are actively looking to escape northward, in fear for their literal lives.
With a looming election that has a cartoonishly, Trumpian, "populist evil" candidate for the leadership of our country, yeah it could definitely get worse, and even to the same amount quite easily. But at least for now, there's a very real -- though definitely not perfect -- refuge for LGBTQ2A+ of all stripes up here.
Ps IANAL. So take this with a gain of salt but I've never heard of someone actually being jailed for not giving access.
This, of course, is a rather fictitious scenario.
Deleted Comment
>No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.