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rzodkiew · a year ago
The whole tech looks kinda' cool, but this video...

I've noticed a trend where some of the dev tooling nowadays is sold almost as if it were consumer goods with the whole associated marketing behind it. This doesn't work for me, in reality actually has completely opposite effect. Give me boring well-written docs, that shows engineering that went into it, not the marketing show for teenagers.

wagslane · a year ago
It has boring well written docs. in fact very boring, and very well written. the video is a banger though, I have no idea why you'd want less creativity in an otherwise boring space
thierrydamiba · a year ago
It appears that at least one person working on this is connected to Prime-a tech streamer that has blown up recently.

So I think there are some people who don’t love the idea that tech is being driven by content creators.

But the reality is a well marketed product will always perform better than a well engineered product.

Given the fact that all these tools are interchangeable based on where you want to sacrifice, I actually think it’s pretty cool they are doing this kind of marketing.

You can’t win in that area on just product. And I think that really brothers a certain kind of HN poster.

solatic · a year ago
Like https://sst.dev/docs/ ?

I wouldn't begrudge professional tooling companies trying to use consumer marketing to reach early-stage projects, when most early-stage projects are built by hobbyists, side-project-ists, professionals-who-arent-software-professionals, etc.

lionkor · a year ago
.. most? Im pretty sure you have a bias there. I see mostly software developers with degrees and jobs producing libraries and cool projects, very rarely is it the kid who never programmed before, or the 60 year old farmer who wants to try something new.

I think you're biased by the fact that the latter generates more attention briefly.

wiether · a year ago
If you want companies to adopt your tech product, who should be your main target?

- The junior dev with no say in decisions

- The seasoned contributors whose opinion is listened to but who know that there is no magic tool, only compromises

- The managers who almost always have the last word, who live with constant FOMO, and whose jobs are mostly based on impressions rather than actual results

acomms · a year ago
What rubs you the wrong way about the video? Does it being this lighthearted make you question their engineering talent? Why are fun and skill mutually exclusive? I would like to know since I am working on a B2B project, and contemplating wacky marketing.
thdxr · a year ago
when it comes to marketing the only thing that'll work is finding your true voice

i made this video because it reflects my sense of humor and is the kind of content i'd appreciate

anything outside business as usual will draw polarizing reactions

but in a noisy world that's the only thing that'll work

https://x.com/thdxr/status/1848794269848637510?s=46

Thorrez · a year ago
The video is a parody of marketing. If you want to criticize it for being irrelevant and that humor doesn't fit this situation, then sure. But saying it has similar marketing to consumer goods isn't really accurate.
tomhallett · a year ago
Context for people who might not get the joke/parody: SST adding containers to their stack might be viewed as a "betryal" in a similar way to how some basketball fans felt when LeBron James switched teams, from Cleveland Cavaliers to Miami Heat. LeBron had a media event/interview called "The Decision" [1].

I love the clip of @dhh's keynote to engineer's "learned helplessness" to AWS and the cloud [2]. While SST + containers is very very different than DHH's Kamal [3], they both embrace containers without the paas service tax (heroku/vercel/etc) or the overhead of kubernetes.

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afpgnb_9bA4

2: https://youtu.be/-cEn_83zRFw?si=oAG3ZUKhXlUIKD88&t=1296

3: https://kamal-deploy.org/

creatonez · a year ago
It's satire and it's hilarious. The fact that you thought it was a serious calculated marketing move honestly makes it even more hilarious.
tolerance · a year ago
Some people are trapped in the mindset that the only way for them to be taken seriously is to go out of their way to not be taken seriously.
aidenn0 · a year ago
Over the years it has gotten simpler to have a certain level of production-value. This has a few effects:

- The reaction of many to something simple[1] becomes "oh it must be fly-by-night"

- It is more likely someone close to the project who can and will enjoy making something slick-looking

- B2B companies have had reasonably slick marketing for at least a decade, and there's always been a desire for many open projects to look like they can "play with the big boys"

1: https://motherfuckingwebsite.com/

solatic · a year ago
Readers who are unfamiliar with SST would do well to read a bit about the project, the backing company, and the work they've been doing. Things have come around full-bore from serverless-only on AWS via CDK, putting huge effort into trying to make CDK fast and seamless, realizing they needed to support more than AWS and that CDK/CF are just too slow, transitioning into a Pulumi backend, supporting other clouds, and now, containers.

SST is great because they built a model for infra-as-code that gives sensible defaults out-of-the-box while preserving enormous flexibility as the architecture grows, plus great conventions around giving code access to the environment details via bindings.

Super excited to play with this.

swyx · a year ago
does SST compile to CF? for serverless stuff (and now the limited container stuff) what are the tradeoffs SST has vs CDK?
wrs · a year ago
It used to use CDK/CF. There’s a long blog post about them deciding CF is unusably bad and moving to Pulumi this year.

https://sst.dev/blog/sst-v3/

jackbravo · a year ago
It's built on top of pulumi, and their docs have some comparison against both CDK and pulumi in their FAQ section: https://sst.dev/docs/#faq
usagisushi · a year ago
SST (v3, ion) is awesome! Its live Lambda debugging feature totally changes the way I develop Lambda functions. It has the potential to be a cloud vendor-independent alternative to AWS Amplify Gen2.

Since SST allows you to use Pulumi code, you can code your infrastructure extensively even if some resources are not directly supported by SST itself. However, for such usage, it also has rough edges inherited from Pulumi. For instance, I encountered issues with cyclic dependencies [1] between resources and incomplete deployments. It would be great if I could run the Pulumi CLI against my SST stack.

[1]: https://github.com/pulumi/pulumi/issues/3021

mentalgear · a year ago
Container support in SST is a great addition! But I’d really like to see support for other providers like Hetzner or VPS services in general, which often offer a more cost-effective option. [Update: seems like SST offers a lot of providers (incl. Hetzner) with varying feature sets, only most to all examples are using aws in the guide]

--

For example, SST's AWS costs example:

- AWS Fargate: 0.25 vCPU, 0.5 GB RAM, 20GB SSD: ~$13/month

- AWS Load Balancer: ~$3/month

Total: ~$17/month (rounded up)

--

In comparison, a similar (even more powerful) setup on Hetzner can be significantly more affordable:

- Hetzner VPS: 2 vCPU, 4 GB RAM, 20 GB SSD for ~ $5/month

  -- Coolify

    --- app containers

    --- load balancing
Total: around $5/month.

---

Alternatively, you can offload server management to Coolify Cloud for an extra ~ $5/month, so your Hetzner resources are dedicated solely to running your containers.

- Hetzner VPS + Coolify Cloud: ~ $10/month

You can scale vertically via Hetzner (rescale) and horizontally via Coolify (add more servers).

A more budget-friendly option like this could be valuable for users running small to medium, even larger setups !

hipadev23 · a year ago
Hetzner will arbitrarily null route your traffic, proceed with caution running anything important there.
diggan · a year ago
> Hetzner will arbitrarily null route your traffic

Never happened to me, been using Hetzner (dedicated though, not VPS) for almost 10 years. What exactly were you hosting before they pulled the plug on you?

tnolet · a year ago
Why not just use Pulumi? The code would be almost exactly the same?

  import * as pulumi from "@pulumi/pulumi";
  import * as aws from "@pulumi/aws";


  const cluster = new aws.ecs.Cluster("my-cluster", {
    name: "my-cluster",
  });

  export const clusterName = cluster.name;
https://www.pulumi.com/registry/packages/aws/api-docs/ecs/cl...

thdxr · a year ago
that's creating the raw ecs cluster

these components have

1. adding services that can auto scale

2. specifying load balancing config

3. automatic service discovery registration

4. network tunnel to access vpc resources from your machine

5. typesafe resource linking to access your resources in your application code

6. dev mode which brings up your system locally in a single multiplexed terminal UI

not pitching - just listing out why we bother doing anything. pulumi is great and if you want a more low level experience you should use it

tnolet · a year ago
I understand, that is indeed valuable. But not at all clear from the documentation / copy in the linked post. I did not watch the video...
unchar1 · a year ago
According to their docs, SST uses Pulumi under the hood [1]

It's supposed to be a bit easier for developers to pick up, but you should be able to achieve the same thing with Pulumi AFAIU

[1]: https://sst.dev/docs/#faq

datadeft · a year ago
Does Pulumi still use Terraform under the hood?
josiahwiebe · a year ago
sometimes abstractions add value. one could say the same sort of thing about Tailscale for example - why not just use Wireguard? but the abstraction adds value imo
coronapl · a year ago
I'm really happy to see the SST team pushing this forward. A few months ago, I wrote about how SST is becoming a flexible framework that lets you start with a simple serverless approach and easily migrate to containers. This is my blog post in case someone is interested:

https://pablosblog.dev/posts/1

andrew_ · a year ago
Would you trust a company whose founder dances in pajamas like Elaine Benes with an open laptop to deploy your infra? Sus, very sus.
wg0 · a year ago
I'd be more concerned about pricing and vendor lock-in.

Haven't tried SST though. I doubt if it works always flawlessly because even plain old terraform might get stuck in complicated dependency graphs failing to destroy or create/recreate resources.

acomms · a year ago
I am genuinely curious about this. I am contemplating somewhat zany marketing tactics for a project I'm working on. In your mind does fun =/= trust?
trevor-e · a year ago
I think it depends entirely on the product/audience. The selling points around infrastructure tooling are stability and reliability. Zany marketing like this invokes an "unpredictable" feeling in me which I'm not sure is a good fit.
wagslane · a year ago
yes. also, let's be clear... dax ain't the founder
heyitsdave · a year ago
yes
datadeft · a year ago
I am wondering if this is actually a pattern that we can use to build a production system:

    const cluster = new sst.aws.Cluster("MyCluster", { vpc });

moritonal · a year ago
If by that you mean "is IaC production-ready yet?" my answer would be yes, I have lines like this in our code-base and it is really impressive.
datadeft · a year ago
And how does anybody know just looking at this line what is the actual implementation? Creating new names like sst.aws.Cluster that hides actual details is problematic for me. ECS has three flavor as of 2024. How should I know which is in use when writing that line of code?

Amazon ECS capacity is the infrastructure where your containers run. The following is an overview of the capacity options:

- Amazon EC2 instances in the AWS cloud

- Serverless (AWS Fargate) in the AWS cloud

- On-premises virtual machines (VM) or servers

One more intresting detail I found that another services are not trying to hide the implementation detail.

    const api = new sst.aws.ApiGatewayV2("MyApi", {})