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Posted by u/chr15m a year ago
Ask HN: Why are PWA user install stats so hard to find?
I want to know how many people install progressive web apps. All of the sources I could find say the same things over and over:

- "...market is expected to reach a value of 10.77 billion dollars."

- "PWAs cater to over 6.3 billion smartphone users globally."

- Dramatic improvements in speed, conversions, retention rate etc.

These stats don't tell me how many users and what proportion of users actually add PWAs to their home screen. For companies like Starbucks who have deployed a PWA I'd love to know what proportion of their web traffic ends up installing the PWA, and how it compares to native for example. Does anybody know where I can find this information generally?

The closest thing I could find to real data is this:

- Apple said PWAs had "very low user adoption" when they recently cancelled (and then un-cancelled) them for EU users.

- A Chrome OS blog post where they say "Since the beginning of 2021, desktop PWA installs have grow by 270%" (published early 2022).

Thanks!

pletnes · a year ago
I work as a developer / consultant. Sometimes I show «install as desktop app» on Edge/chrome on windows and people are genuinely surprised, and don’t know about it. I’d bet the conscious usage is very low.

Chrome(OS) and others might use PWAs behind the scenes, so depending on how you count, maybe the numbers are much higher than I’d think?

noduerme · a year ago
Company I write code for has an in-house app that's used on tablets by employees on retail floors. It's a platform agnostic PWA. Getting the managers to actually create a home screen shortcut to use it full screen always requires someone to walk them through that. It's just surprising and not intuitive to most people that a page in a web browser can be made to act like a standalone app.

To be clear, it's not really critical. They can do their job perfectly well using the app in any browser. But having it full screen does improve the UX quite a bit.

AlexDragusin · a year ago
I am also thinking that installing is exactly what people avoid when they prefer PWAs, so if installing is actually just creating a shortcut to home screen (and Windows equivalent), then maybe the verbiage should reflect that and we would see wider adoption.

On my RadioSide, when the user selects to add to home screen or install as an app, it makes an icon and that's that, from the user's point of view it looks like an app, works like an app, quacks like an app, without the risks and hassle.

Most users have no idea that it's possible thus presenting them with an "install this" they already get anxiety attacks of downloading and running stuff and taking risk, I am talking about average users.

ansgri · a year ago
As a (non-web) developer, I just don't trust PWAs: I assume they'll break their offline functionality in the most unfortunate moment while being not as tightly integrated into desktop as proper apps (even those using Electron). So I just keep using website as that has a more clear mental model.
pletnes · a year ago
Absolutely, I’ve yet to see something that works offline (I’m sure it’s technically feasible). But «so what» - few modern day apps do much use when offline.
simooooo · a year ago
In my whole life working in IT, I’ve seen two people use PWAs. And one was just trying it out to see if it was better than a website.

Deleted Comment

thangngoc89 · a year ago
> Apple said PWAs had "very low user adoption"

Installing PWA isn't obvious for users on iOS Safari or even macOS Safari. It's very obscure

> A Chrome OS ... desktop PWA installs have grow by 270%

Google Chrome would "beg" you to install PWA if the web was developed in the correct way with correct manifest and ServiceWorkers.

callalex · a year ago
It’s also subtly inhibited by Apple after installation. For example when I pull down on the Home Screen to get Siri Suggestions it will refuse to show me any PWAs even though they are the most used apps on my device.
chii · a year ago
> It's very obscure

and i might argue it's deliberately so!

threeseed · a year ago
Open Website. Click Share. Click Add to Home.

Doesn't seem that obscure and for me the issue is much more with websites not making it clear when a PWA version of the site is available.

mkl · a year ago
You're not sharing it with anyone, so that does seem pretty obscure.
USiBqidmOOkAqRb · a year ago
Oh, and you omitted that you need to scroll down the share popup. A popup that primes you as scrollable sideways, don't forget.

When my family was discussing getting an older member a smartphone, I briefly thought about it and realized that the whole lore of what's srollable would be impossible to explain. If you don't want a feature used, put it "below the fold" in a popup.

davidbanham · a year ago
It’s a pretty clunky call to action, though. The simplest thing for the user would be a button right in the message telling you a PWA is available. “Tap here to install” and it’s done.

Instead, you need to tell users “Hey, we have an app! No no stop, wait, don’t go looking in the App Store it’s not there. Instead you need to hit the share icon. Yeah it looks like a box with an arrow coming out of it, down the bottom of the screen. Yeah if it’s not showing you need to tap the gray bar at the bottom first. Then the share button. Then look through for something that says install to Home Screen. Yeah scroll down a bit and maybe scroll across until you see it. Yeah there you go.”

rty32 · a year ago
No, that's not the sequence on ChromeOS. See this example

https://medium.com/@julianneagu/installing-pwas-on-chrome-ea...

chrisrhoden · a year ago
Share doesn’t seem strange in that context?
peterbecich · a year ago
Recent interesting thread about PWAs:

Ask HN: Who has had a successful PWA product?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40724774

chr15m · a year ago
Great thread, thanks!
rty32 · a year ago
My guess is that indeed the usage is low and people didn't bother to update stats or put more efforts into it. But the real reasons, in my opinion --

On the desktop, PWAs are simply less relevant. People are mostly online, and there is little difference between PWA and a "real" website, so people would just go to the website instead of "installing" it. Most "heavyweight" applications like VSCode, Photoshop and Premier Pro need to be run natively (although many of their features are available in the web version). Google Docs, probably, but otherwise there is very little incentive for using PWAs.

On mobile, many of the same points apply, although PWAs have more access to permissions and are often viable replacements to native apps (especially apps that are just websites anyway, like Uber Eats). I think mobile apps would be the ones driving the growth of PWAs. But of course... Apple. Apple doesn't want this ecosystem to grow to take revenue from the app store, and just made it difficult to develop and use PWAs. (There are legitimate concerns over how PWAs are used, but there are also solutions.) As a developer you don't want to spend time developing PWAs that only run on Android phones, so you might not bother at all.

jauntywundrkind · a year ago
I'd rather have tabs and forward back and history and bookmarks and extensions. Losing the browser & switching to an app seems like a colossal downgrade, like losing everything that's good. I do not understand PWAs.
troupo · a year ago
> I think mobile apps would be the ones driving the growth of PWAs. But of course... Apple

Android is the dominant mobile OS in the world.

> As a developer you don't want to spend time developing PWAs that only run on Android phones, so you might not bother at all.

You will be developing two apps anyway, so...

Daneel_ · a year ago
The only ones I’ve ever used are gmail and google calendar on my work computer, and that’s because we don’t allow third party fat clients.

I’m not looking to use PWAs.

troupo · a year ago
Because PWAs are mostly hype originally aggressively promoted by Google, but now even Google is tired of promoting them.

One of the few places where hype is still real is Hacker News, and even here people can't even come up with examples of good PWAs beyond, and I kid you not, Twitter.

Going from 1 install to 270 installs is a 270% increase, too. So I would take such stats with a grain of salt weighing about 270 tons. Google is dominating mobile market and Chrome is dominating the browsers market, and that's the best stats they can come up with?

mkl · a year ago
> Going from 1 install to 270 installs is a 270% increase

That's a 26900% increase.

L3viathan · a year ago
> Going from 1 install to 270 installs is a 270% increase

No, it's a 270x increase. In percent that's much higher.

troupo · a year ago
Sorry, it was a brain fart on my part.

If we do the 270% increase from 1, the stats become funnier.

NekkoDroid · a year ago
I personally very much enjoy using PWAs for things that are actually more like apps than websites. Things like Discord could benefit from a PWA version, but the ones I actually do use are for standard Fediverse pages, YouTube, Chrome Remote Desktop, Pokemon Showdown and a bunch more.

Sadly I do think that PWAs aren't very popular in the grand scheme of things since I think they often make more sense than a separate app that you download just for it to basically be a copycat of the website and to still not work offline.

solardev · a year ago
I don't think anyone actually uses these in the real world.