> Almost half struggled with existential confusion and “derealization,” the sense that everything was unreal.
For me, the main transformative of taking acid recreationally was that the world came to seem less solid, reliable and "real". To be clear, I regarded that as a positive outcome.
A Buddhist teacher once explained to me that one of the expected effects of certain kinds of meditation was a growing sense that the world is insubstantial, as if it were made of tissue-paper that you could stick your finger through. I find that sort of view helpful; a world made of tissue-paper isn't "heavy" and oppressive. Anything can be changed.
And in fact, that solid, reliable world isn't real; the real world is very different from the world presented to us by our senses.
So this guy didn't find that insight helpful at all. Some people find it very hard to cope with.
I'm not sure that the Galapagos Islands is the ideal place to sleep-off a bad trip!
I'm inclined to agree with Evans that Leary's "set and setting" doctrine is far from a complete protection against bad trips. We used to attribute them to "bad acid", but that was bullshit; I just don't know what precipitates a bad trip.
The current trend in psychedelic folk knowledge is away from the good trip/bad trip dichotomy and towards "challenges" or "challenging experiences." IE trips that force you to reckon with some particular fear, past experience, core part of your worldview etc but provide (or demand) an opportunity for growth or fuller self-knowledge through it.
I've found this valuable in that it encourages full & nonjudgmental engagement with the "bad" experiences, focused on gaining something meaningful from them. Though it risks dismissing the potentially harmful effects of these experience. Or even worse, considering people who do have bad trips to be merely too weak or unenlightened to have chosen to avoid the experience.
But anyway I suspect the author is aware of this view, having used the phrase "challenging trips" in almost exactly the same sense.
> The current trend in psychedelic folk knowledge is away from the good trip/bad trip dichotomy
Wow, maybe "folk knowledge" is dumb. A real bad trip is not any kind of "challenging experience"; it's maybe 8 hours of completely senseless horror, a meaningless nightmare. And it doesn't really matter much whether it's 10 minutes or 10 days; if you have no sense of time, you're contemplating eternity.
Bad LSD is still a thing unfortunately. You can test a batch for purity now, though.
I think what Evans did actually violated set and setting, but it's possible this article is just poorly framed. He did enough LSD on his first trip in a packed club to experience depersonalization. To me a review of set and setting would've told me three of those things are a bad idea. He later then went to do a drug like Ayahuasca in a foreign country under a cultural practice he likely didn't appreciate. Again, things set and setting would tell me are likely not a good idea - at the very least that I should build up to. For the unfamiliar, I view both things he did like climbing Mt Hood and Mt Everest as an amateur with barely adequate gear.
I think he should continue to tell his stories, maybe even post them to Erowid or the Psychonaut wiki where there are similar warnings. That said, I'm not super convinced he's challenged the theory of set and setting.
Bad LSD being "a thing" and bad LSD being "a thing that causes bad trips" are very very different.
Among the things that people often sell as LSD, some have dangerously steep dose-response curves like 25I-NBOMe, some are pretty close analogues like AL-LAD.
None outright cause bad trips, and most or all of them are also sold with their proper labels and enjoyed by enthusiasts.
His personal experience is not what that claim is based on, but rather the collected bad trips of hundreds of others, many of which were in a therapeutic setting.
That last part in the article about them being surprised that 8% of people in psychedelic clinical trials had difficulties is interesting to me. I think assuming that being in a therapist or clinician's office is a good 'set and setting' is sort of funny, because I can't imagine wanting to be in a clinical setting for a psychedelic experience. I'd likely want to leave and go wander in nature and they'd probably say no, too dangerous, put this blindfold and AirPods Max on. I'd do it for science, but it's not in my top 10 choices of location to do it in!
I think the article stated that 8% of the respondents who said they had a “bad trip” had their trip in a clinical trial. Not that 8% of clinical trials resulted in a bad trip.
I don't think you should assume what you experienced is the same thing that the author experienced. I have had both good and bad trips, ones that are like you described that lead me to imagine a world of possibilities after the trip and other ones that left me depersonalized. They definitely were not the same effect.
I do think it has a lot to do with the framework you enter with and how you understand what's happening, which I think is what OP was getting at. My most profound experience was a full depersonalization, which I never even began to consider was a bad thing at all, but maybe for someone else would be filled with panic and anxiety. So it's all dependent on your view, which is probably why Buddhism puts 'right view' (samyak-drishti) as the first of the eight-fold path (although I don't think the ordering really matters, it's just convention).
> A Buddhist teacher once explained to me that one of the expected effects of certain kinds of meditation was a growing sense that the world is insubstantial, as if it were made of tissue-paper that you could stick your finger through.
This is called "emptiness", and the second level "but actually it's all real too" is supposed to add up to something called "non-duality". Buddhists historically spend a lot of time arguing with each other about how exactly it works.
The practical upshot is supposed to be that you can look at a statement about yourself like "I have depression" and realize that it is empty of independent existence ie that you're the one doing it to yourself, and this may possibly make it go away.
If you do this too hard you then realize you don't exist and also go away.
"But amid all the scientific and cultural enthusiasm for these drugs, little attention has been paid to bad trips and their after-effects, and even less to what might alleviate them."
I don't think this is really the case. Maybe the cultural component isn't paying much attention to it, but the scientific part is. These are being researched as medicines. All medicines have side effects. These aren't being recommended for everybody. Most of the studies are looking at psychedelics as a last resort and not a first line treatment. They are also investigating or using best practices when it come to proper environment and guidance during the administration.
I think if I'd had a bad experience on acid i might not then choose my next engagement to be with one of the most profound psychadelic experiences there is half way round the world with a bunch of strangers. Perhaps start with a light dose of mushrooms at home with some friends?
It seems obvious to me that anyone supportive of psychedelic treatment should be supportive of this kind of investigation. It does no one any good to suppress or ignore stories of negative experiences with psychedelics. On the contrary, research like this can help develop better screening protocols or follow up treatment to help minimize these effects, or even treat people who are suffering long term negative impact from a difficult trip.
While better understanding is certainly useful, the framing does seem a little unfair to me. It's not like other treatments don't have their downsides. Most people will tell you they don't like seeing the dentist but few would say it's not worth it.
I've had bad trips on psychedelics and I actually think they tended to be some of the more beneficial ones for me in the long run.
Seems unfair to compare a "bad trip to the dentist" to a person experiencing severe psychological effects liking being unable to make human connections and feelings of loneliness for 30 years
Many of these experiences seem to have drastically impacted peoples lives in a very negative way. Much worse than a toothache!
I agree! I also think it would make sense for people not supportive of psychedelic treatments to be interested in this, for various reasons, including what you said, and also as an educational tool too teach kids so they don't try it illegally, which seems to be a major concern among those not supportive of this kind of research.
Full disclosure: I live in Sweden,a country famous among other things for it's Draconian stance on drugs, and I'm less than amused by the propaganda that passes for narcotics education here.
The description of feeling like he was "in a coma or some afterlife limbo state" sounds similar to Cotard's syndrome [1], a very rare condition that can develop from untreated schizophrenia — basically an unshakable belief that you are, in fact, dead, and every other fact of existence will have to be reframed to support that belief.
The author's description of dissociation resonated with me, as I experienced a solid month or so of intense dissociation when I was 17, and the only way to describe it is by saying I _knew_ I was in a dream. It was terrifying, and came and went for seemingly no reason at all. I steered clear from any mind altering substances for about 10 years, as my relationship with my own mind felt permanently unsettled.
Years later, though, after lots of therapy and educating myself, I came to learn that the dissociation is often a protective measure that the mind takes to handle incredible stress. It's so counter-intuitive; my subconscious mind is trying to protect me from something my conscious mind knows nothing about by sticking me into a terrifying dream state for a month? Thanks, I guess?
I still haven't tried psychedelics yet, but I plan to now that I understand far more about my mind, and I've realized that what I was fearful of was my anxiety, and my mind has been trying to help me through that since day one. I say all this because the negative experiences discussed in this article sound like things I experienced without any drugs, as they were the result of unaddressed mental health issues that needed therapy and tender care.
"The pilot who attempted to shut fuel off to the engines of an Alaska Airlines jet [in November 2023] after ingesting magic mushrooms has said that he had no intention of hurting anyone – but was trying to come out of a hallucinogenic state.
“I thought it would stop both engines, the plane would start to head towards a crash, and I would wake up,”"
I’ve got a healthy respect for psychedelics after noticing lingering effects on my reality perception and mood for several days after taking some strains of marijuana. I know it can help many people, but the thought of anything stronger than weed messing with your sense of reality should demand caution at the very least
I'm not sure that there's scientific research on the subject, as one of the problems with drugs being illegal, is that it also stymied research (which is why we have all the CBD snake oil, nowadays).
I know that weed seems to be a triggering catalyst for folks with latent schizophrenia. I know of folks that smoked one joint, and never came back, but these are rare incidents.
As someone who has eaten over 100 hits of LSD before I was old enough to drive, I can say it has helped me in my life. Wonderful memories, never a bad trip. I have used cannabis daily since I was 13 as well and highly (sorry, pun) recommend it for stress relief among other positive effects. Each person is very different when it come to these substances.
Sorry but if you started such heavy drig use at such a young age you have absolutely no way of evaluating if it helped or hindered your life.
You hear this type of thing from psychedelic evangelists all the time "changed my life, learned so much" etc but when asked to substantiate these claims or provide any concrete evidence of behavioural changes or otherwise positive effects, they cannot.
By the way, im not a luddite. Done my fair share, but I'm honest with myself, its mostly just recreation, and dangerous recreation at that.
I think you are either an extreme outlier (not having a unpleasant trip while having taken over hundred) or delusional about your drug consumption. Your recommendation of consuming a mind-altering substance DAILY for stress relief " and other positive effects" lets me lean towards the latter.
While each person is indeed different, their brains tend to work in a comparable way.
Readit News
For me, the main transformative of taking acid recreationally was that the world came to seem less solid, reliable and "real". To be clear, I regarded that as a positive outcome.
A Buddhist teacher once explained to me that one of the expected effects of certain kinds of meditation was a growing sense that the world is insubstantial, as if it were made of tissue-paper that you could stick your finger through. I find that sort of view helpful; a world made of tissue-paper isn't "heavy" and oppressive. Anything can be changed.
And in fact, that solid, reliable world isn't real; the real world is very different from the world presented to us by our senses.
So this guy didn't find that insight helpful at all. Some people find it very hard to cope with.
I'm not sure that the Galapagos Islands is the ideal place to sleep-off a bad trip!
I'm inclined to agree with Evans that Leary's "set and setting" doctrine is far from a complete protection against bad trips. We used to attribute them to "bad acid", but that was bullshit; I just don't know what precipitates a bad trip.
I've found this valuable in that it encourages full & nonjudgmental engagement with the "bad" experiences, focused on gaining something meaningful from them. Though it risks dismissing the potentially harmful effects of these experience. Or even worse, considering people who do have bad trips to be merely too weak or unenlightened to have chosen to avoid the experience.
But anyway I suspect the author is aware of this view, having used the phrase "challenging trips" in almost exactly the same sense.
Wow, maybe "folk knowledge" is dumb. A real bad trip is not any kind of "challenging experience"; it's maybe 8 hours of completely senseless horror, a meaningless nightmare. And it doesn't really matter much whether it's 10 minutes or 10 days; if you have no sense of time, you're contemplating eternity.
I think what Evans did actually violated set and setting, but it's possible this article is just poorly framed. He did enough LSD on his first trip in a packed club to experience depersonalization. To me a review of set and setting would've told me three of those things are a bad idea. He later then went to do a drug like Ayahuasca in a foreign country under a cultural practice he likely didn't appreciate. Again, things set and setting would tell me are likely not a good idea - at the very least that I should build up to. For the unfamiliar, I view both things he did like climbing Mt Hood and Mt Everest as an amateur with barely adequate gear.
I think he should continue to tell his stories, maybe even post them to Erowid or the Psychonaut wiki where there are similar warnings. That said, I'm not super convinced he's challenged the theory of set and setting.
Among the things that people often sell as LSD, some have dangerously steep dose-response curves like 25I-NBOMe, some are pretty close analogues like AL-LAD.
None outright cause bad trips, and most or all of them are also sold with their proper labels and enjoyed by enthusiasts.
This is called "emptiness", and the second level "but actually it's all real too" is supposed to add up to something called "non-duality". Buddhists historically spend a lot of time arguing with each other about how exactly it works.
The practical upshot is supposed to be that you can look at a statement about yourself like "I have depression" and realize that it is empty of independent existence ie that you're the one doing it to yourself, and this may possibly make it go away.
If you do this too hard you then realize you don't exist and also go away.
Take that a step further; everything is change, quite literally.
Deleted Comment
I don't think this is really the case. Maybe the cultural component isn't paying much attention to it, but the scientific part is. These are being researched as medicines. All medicines have side effects. These aren't being recommended for everybody. Most of the studies are looking at psychedelics as a last resort and not a first line treatment. They are also investigating or using best practices when it come to proper environment and guidance during the administration.
I've had bad trips on psychedelics and I actually think they tended to be some of the more beneficial ones for me in the long run.
Many of these experiences seem to have drastically impacted peoples lives in a very negative way. Much worse than a toothache!
Full disclosure: I live in Sweden,a country famous among other things for it's Draconian stance on drugs, and I'm less than amused by the propaganda that passes for narcotics education here.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotard%27s_syndrome
Years later, though, after lots of therapy and educating myself, I came to learn that the dissociation is often a protective measure that the mind takes to handle incredible stress. It's so counter-intuitive; my subconscious mind is trying to protect me from something my conscious mind knows nothing about by sticking me into a terrifying dream state for a month? Thanks, I guess?
I still haven't tried psychedelics yet, but I plan to now that I understand far more about my mind, and I've realized that what I was fearful of was my anxiety, and my mind has been trying to help me through that since day one. I say all this because the negative experiences discussed in this article sound like things I experienced without any drugs, as they were the result of unaddressed mental health issues that needed therapy and tender care.
"The pilot who attempted to shut fuel off to the engines of an Alaska Airlines jet [in November 2023] after ingesting magic mushrooms has said that he had no intention of hurting anyone – but was trying to come out of a hallucinogenic state.
“I thought it would stop both engines, the plane would start to head towards a crash, and I would wake up,”"
[0][0]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/10/alaska-airli...
I know that weed seems to be a triggering catalyst for folks with latent schizophrenia. I know of folks that smoked one joint, and never came back, but these are rare incidents.
You hear this type of thing from psychedelic evangelists all the time "changed my life, learned so much" etc but when asked to substantiate these claims or provide any concrete evidence of behavioural changes or otherwise positive effects, they cannot.
By the way, im not a luddite. Done my fair share, but I'm honest with myself, its mostly just recreation, and dangerous recreation at that.