Completely anecdotal, but I recently drove by a mall parking lot here in NJ and noticed that there was a whole section parked with new Teslas. There have typically been inventory in this lot as there is a sales/service center ~1 mile away. But I did a double take because there were so many more than usual.
I myself recently purchased a Prius Prime (plugin hybrid) and it's been fantastic. 1000 miles on the first tank and $32 to fill it. My driving pattern means that 3 days a week, I'll burn a few miles worth of fuel. But otherwise, I'm electric. I like that I can charge it up overnight on a standard 120v outlet and didn't need any new wiring or installing a charger. I like that I'll never have range anxiety and I can always just drive it as a very efficient gas vehicle.
I think changing oil is the least annoying thing about owning a gas vehicle. I think the 100% top problem is Smog checks and catalytic converter replacements.
Those are pretty trivial things that don't involve a huge amount of time, hassle, or money. When I'm thinking of the downsides of ICE vehicles, and there are many, those would be at the very bottom of the list.
Its probably an indicator of the EV market as a whole reaching a saturation point with current tech.
Anybody who wants an EV and can afford 45K+ already have one. The rest are either waiting for the next jump in battery tech from the current 250-300 mile max range, a price drop or living in an apartment.
Ultimately, EVs will win out due to their simpler architecture and general convenience but its likely 10 years out.
I think it’s a lot less than 10 years out - EVs being pricey has some connection to the technology but mostly due to the manufacturers choosing to focus on high-end luxury vehicles trying to maintain the much higher SUV/truck-level profit margins they’ve been enjoying rather than dropping down to traditional sedan levels. There is a fair chunk of people who don’t have easy access for charging and a smaller group who really need greater than 200 mile ranges, but there’s still a ton of ICE sales to people who don’t have those problems (especially suburban 2 car households where even 100 mile range is overkill for taking the kids to school on the way to work and overnight garage charging works fine) but they’re looking for a $20-30k car rather than a $40-70k luxury truck. It’s not a coincidence that GM is easily selling every Bolt they made and the Mach-E started moving after lowering the markup - people aren’t willing to overpay so much when interest rates are twice what they’ve been for over a decade:
The thing which has me bullish on EVs is that the rest of the world isn’t so skewed towards massive vehicles and their corresponding markups. Some of those models are going to be offered here, too, and it looks like BYD is going to be moving in slowly, which will mask pressure on the established companies to offer affordable options.
Also in Europe competition is ramping up. Tesla has been complacent and is now falling behind. For instance BMW, Renault and Mercedes all have much better "self-driving" than Tesla (capacitive steering wheel, efficient automatic overtaking, no phantom braking, 360° cameras, fully automatic parking that actually works, etc), and there are good, much cheaper models such as the Cupra Born or the MG 4.
Tesla used to appeal to logical car buyers but once you really research it as an option it quickly stops being a good choice.
1. Poor build quality
2. FSD = broken promises, danger to other road users
3. Expensive and lengthy repairs after accidents
4. High insurance rates compared to non ev
5. Supercharging is expensive, often not worth to buy an EV for non-home owners
6. Poor service, gaps or issues "up to spec"
7. Lack of 3rd party OEM part manufacturing
8. Expensive out of warranty battery replacement, which renders the car useless
9. Elon says a lot of stupid shit and many might not want to support him by buying his product
10. Used Tesla prices have collapsed, with some dealers even refusing to take in as a trade in
For these reason I would not buy a Tesla right now. I feel like buying a hybrid Honda will be cheaper over a 15 year period. I understand many love Tesla here as it is tech centered forum, so I expect counter arguments.
A lot of these things are just not fixable within the short term either, so a new leader probably won't improve things much. Take poor build quality, for example, which takes many years of iteration to improve.
It won’t be quick but I would bet that they could make fairly big improvements quickly if they had a less chaotic leader: someone who acknowledges the problem and makes it their top priority instead of chasing impulses or being obsessed with something which would be cool if it worked but doesn’t. I guarantee that there are people in that organization who know how to improve reliability but aren’t empowered in a culture of intimidation.
9. Elon says a lot of stupid shit and many might not want to support him by buying his product
I think this is actually a bigger thing than people realize though. Initially I think Elon was the selling point, people liked him more and wanted to support him. Not anymore.
You forgot poor cost-cutting decisions that have reduced their utility as actual cars. No parking sensors, no rain sensors, no stalks, no gear shifter, no physical AC controls.
I'm not undoing 20+ years of driving muscle memory just so Elon can make a few bucks extra profit per car.
Why is there not a website with sensor parts lists and 3-D print files so that you can festoon your Tesla with all the latest sensor and tangible-UI technology ?
I cant afford a new electric car and I wont be able to afford a second hand electric car either.
Put on your cape and your tighty-whiteys for full-tilt, fantastic adventure with Fanboy and Chum Chum.
I live near to the Tesla car sales, car park, collection point in Staines. I huge expanse that is filled with ussless contraptions that only the rich can afford.
Just up the road there is a now empty VMware office building and up the road a little further is the now empty Bupa main office. Staines renowned for the "Staines massive" of "Ali G" Fame. We once had Quentin Tarantino visit our only night club, its not a night club as such as it only opens until 2am.
It is because I live so near to my hero, he has a car park up the road. Even though he lives in America we are sort of neighbours, we must be, it used to only be a 4 hour flight on Concorde, which is nearer than my 6 hour drive to Snowdonia, So neighbours it is. Because of that I can try to convince as many peoiple as possible that he and I are close friends. We are!
So, all you people who believe and think that you are convinced you are a personal friends of the main man.
I was there first, so there.
What on earth are you doing following this fantasy figure and his chrtistmas toys.
Readit News
I myself recently purchased a Prius Prime (plugin hybrid) and it's been fantastic. 1000 miles on the first tank and $32 to fill it. My driving pattern means that 3 days a week, I'll burn a few miles worth of fuel. But otherwise, I'm electric. I like that I can charge it up overnight on a standard 120v outlet and didn't need any new wiring or installing a charger. I like that I'll never have range anxiety and I can always just drive it as a very efficient gas vehicle.
Anybody who wants an EV and can afford 45K+ already have one. The rest are either waiting for the next jump in battery tech from the current 250-300 mile max range, a price drop or living in an apartment.
Ultimately, EVs will win out due to their simpler architecture and general convenience but its likely 10 years out.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/290673/auto-loan-rates-u...
The thing which has me bullish on EVs is that the rest of the world isn’t so skewed towards massive vehicles and their corresponding markups. Some of those models are going to be offered here, too, and it looks like BYD is going to be moving in slowly, which will mask pressure on the established companies to offer affordable options.
Tesla used to appeal to logical car buyers but once you really research it as an option it quickly stops being a good choice.
1. Poor build quality
2. FSD = broken promises, danger to other road users
3. Expensive and lengthy repairs after accidents
4. High insurance rates compared to non ev
5. Supercharging is expensive, often not worth to buy an EV for non-home owners
6. Poor service, gaps or issues "up to spec"
7. Lack of 3rd party OEM part manufacturing
8. Expensive out of warranty battery replacement, which renders the car useless
9. Elon says a lot of stupid shit and many might not want to support him by buying his product
10. Used Tesla prices have collapsed, with some dealers even refusing to take in as a trade in
For these reason I would not buy a Tesla right now. I feel like buying a hybrid Honda will be cheaper over a 15 year period. I understand many love Tesla here as it is tech centered forum, so I expect counter arguments.
I think this is actually a bigger thing than people realize though. Initially I think Elon was the selling point, people liked him more and wanted to support him. Not anymore.
I'm not undoing 20+ years of driving muscle memory just so Elon can make a few bucks extra profit per car.
Deleted Comment
I cant afford a new electric car and I wont be able to afford a second hand electric car either.
Put on your cape and your tighty-whiteys for full-tilt, fantastic adventure with Fanboy and Chum Chum.
I live near to the Tesla car sales, car park, collection point in Staines. I huge expanse that is filled with ussless contraptions that only the rich can afford.
Just up the road there is a now empty VMware office building and up the road a little further is the now empty Bupa main office. Staines renowned for the "Staines massive" of "Ali G" Fame. We once had Quentin Tarantino visit our only night club, its not a night club as such as it only opens until 2am.
It is because I live so near to my hero, he has a car park up the road. Even though he lives in America we are sort of neighbours, we must be, it used to only be a 4 hour flight on Concorde, which is nearer than my 6 hour drive to Snowdonia, So neighbours it is. Because of that I can try to convince as many peoiple as possible that he and I are close friends. We are!
So, all you people who believe and think that you are convinced you are a personal friends of the main man.
I was there first, so there.
What on earth are you doing following this fantasy figure and his chrtistmas toys.
On and on the fantasists run!