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Posted by u/haebom 2 years ago
Ask HN: Why is the crypto booming again?
I have no experience in crypto investing, so I don't know how significant this is, but there has been talk of $60,000 in Bitcoin in various major media outlets recently. It seems like the crypto market has a habit of coming in and out of the limelight like this, so why is this boom coming back? Is it simply due to something like ETF approval? If there's a technical reason, let me know.
photon_lines · 2 years ago
I'd say the biggest reasons recently are:

1) The approval of various ETFs (so demand is heightened). It's much easier to invest in it than in was in the past.

2) Traders expecting the supply to tighten (see bitcoin halving which is due very soon) and the demand there also heightening due to supply constraint expectation.

3) A lot of the uncertainty in terms of exchanges is gone. Coinbase looks like it can stand up to scrutiny and this furthermore boosts demand.

When you have huge demand vs. constrained supply, bubbles form. Of course, are all of the factors I mentioned enough to keep the bubble going for a very long time? Well, that I can't answer. No one knows how long this will last. I can tell you though that this to me looks like it is the next Tulip bubble. I see almost no reason to use bitcoin as a store of wealth. As a decentralized currency it has tremendous value, but treating it as gold I have reservations on since a lot of corrupt gangs and regimes are currently using it as a method of payment and laundering (including North Korea), as well as it being a huge drain on the world's energy supply due to mining energy needs...I don't really see what value it brings to the world at all, so treating it as 'virtual gold' (the way the world has been treating it) makes 0 sense to me, but in general, the world in the short-term sometimes makes very little sense. Over the long term, things tend to clear up. Hopefully that helps.

haebom · 2 years ago
In fact, it seems that places like North Korea, where there are economic restrictions, are using crypto markets as a way of funding. As you said, they say that it will replace digital gold, or the dollar, but that sounds a bit tasteless to me.

On the other hand, when I keep seeing news about El Salvador getting out of a national financial crisis with bitcoin, or Sam Altman issuing a worldcoin, or what Optimism did with artificial intelligence, I wonder if it's really worthless.

Some say that various tokens will be in the spotlight at Ndivia's upcoming event, but what I'm most interested in is whether this crypto market really helps with AI distributed processing. In fact, when creating an LLM, the biggest concern is how to handle quantised data.

MakeThemMoney · 2 years ago
> I keep seeing news about El Salvador getting out of a national financial crisis with bitcoin

First time I see this. Could you share some links?

lowkey · 2 years ago
Adding some detail to your points 1 and 2, the ETFs are currently buying up over 12,000 coins per day and growing. The miners are producing 900 coins per day which will fall to 450 coins per day in 40 days due to the halving.

Demand is outpacing supply by 12 to 1 at the current pace and all signs point to further tightening as demand continues to grow and supply remains programmatically fixed and soon to fall by half.

The world has never before experienced an asset with perfectly inelastic supply and exponentially growing demand.

It is the perfect storm.

ur-whale · 2 years ago
> The world has never before experienced an asset with perfectly inelastic supply and exponentially growing demand.

Fully agree, and a point that most folks who shout "no intrinsic value" on the rooftops, completely fail to understand.

Furthermore, no economic theories exists to this day (that I know of) that can get a handle on this kind of asset class and predict its future behavior and impact on society.

latchkey · 2 years ago
ETH is outperforming BTC.

ETH Merged from PoW to PoS in Sept 2022, and decimated the entire GPU mining industry, cutting obscene power usage down to just running some servers. Sure, there is a small amount of shitcoin PoW mining still, but overall it was a massive change across the board.

Combine that with the transactional burn introduced into EIP-1559, supply is going down because the network isn't having to pay as much for security.

Then, we have EigenLayer, which is taking staked ETH and restaking it to provide an additional layer of security to layer 2 networks. Now, you're just locking up even more ETH. 3m ($12b) are locked into that one alone. Vicious cycle.

ETH is about to have a network upgrade, the first since the Merge, that helps lay the groundwork for scaling.

These factors are all contributing to the growth as new money rolls back into DeFi.

https://ultrasound.money/

https://decrypt.co/119687/4-6-billion-ethereum-flames-since-...

RestlessMind · 2 years ago
> but treating it as gold I have reservations on since a lot of corrupt gangs and regimes are currently using it as a method of payment and laundering (including North Korea), as well as it being a huge drain on the world's energy supply due to mining energy needs.

You do realize that being a great store of value is orthogonal to criminals using it or its energy consumption, right? Criminals also use USD bills, far more than they use bitcoin. Are you going to claim that USD is not a great store of value for poor countries then?

muzani · 2 years ago
It always booms because of the Bitcoin halving. People buy Bitcoin because it's going to be rarer and less mineable. Prices go up.

Others buy because the prices are going up. Some genius draws lines on a graph that tells them prices are going to go up even more, and they buy more. Because the Bitcoin halving tends to be over a 4 year cycle, it's very convenient for the line drawers to predict patterns, and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

inhumantsar · 2 years ago
That's certainly part of it, but the introduction of Bitcoin ETFs has played a huge role in this run as well.

> On March 5, when Bitcoin reached a new all-time high, the BlackRock ETF (IBIT) saw a record inflow of $788.3 million in a single day. This meant that BlackRock had to buy over 11,000 Bitcoins, which likely brought Bitcoin to its new high.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/blackrocks-bitcoin-etf-breaks...

RestlessMind · 2 years ago
And then you add reputable entities like Blackrock or Fidelity offering Bitcoin ETFs and you further fuel the narrative of it being a great asset class.
factorialboy · 2 years ago
Bitcoin ETF. 4 year halvening cycle. US Feds expected to print dollars this year.
JumpCrisscross · 2 years ago
> Feds expected to print dollars this year

This is the answer. There is a spread of expectations around what the Fed will do. I’ve been hawkish, figuring since last year that rates will stay higher, for longer, than the median expectation. Silicon Valley has been dovish. (In my opinion, aspirationally.)

Crypto, for obvious reasons, appeals to those predisposed towards dovishness. (It sounds contradictory. But if you believe the Fed is fucked you’ll always predict imminently-lower rates.)

ProllyInfamous · 2 years ago
I remember back in 2019, when a former hedgefund manager (friend's dad) asked in disbelief: "So there will NEVER be a supply increase, beyond 21 million BTC?!"

Me: "correct"

Tiger Cub: [begins converting a large single-digit percentage of his assets from Dollarydoos to BTC].

----

Early 2023, I'm asked "so this ChatGPT thing, who else besides NVDA is making all the hardware?"

Me: "awkshually, NVDA nor Apple nor AMD actually make their microchips — it's TSMC, using ASML machines. You should look at MSFT's recent $1,000,000,000 investment into OpenAI, the maker of ChatGPT."

[a few days later, MSFT announces additional $10B over a decade investment]

----

His family chartitable foundation gave away so much money this past year [for tax reasons == profits].

----

My take on bitcoin, having been a fungible user since 2012: it's not that BTC protocols are "so great" (they're not); rather, it's that fiat currency is so terrible... is why I HODL.

gitfan86 · 2 years ago
The same reason stanley cups got super popular for a bit. Herd mentality and lack of regulation.

This is kind of the main use case for crypto. Fear and Greed

jimberlage · 2 years ago
Oddly enough (as someone who feels lukewarm about crypto) isn’t this a really strong case for it sticking around long-term?

Like, “crypto will go away as soon as humanity stops feeling fear or being greedy”?

TBH, if anyone really wants to take the air out of crypto, they need to make an easily accessible, divisible, provable deflationary asset, that doesn’t require a lot of work to find or store (so not real estate, gold, guns, rare LEGO sets, etc.)

deeviant · 2 years ago
> Oddly enough (as someone who feels lukewarm about crypto) isn’t this a really strong case for it sticking around long-term?

No.

Fear and greed have motivated human investors since the dawn of investing, but saying that because this motivation is and likely ever will be omnipresent means that every individual thing this fear and greed have acted on will also be omnipresent is, off (Can I interest you in some Dutch Tunips, only 10k each?)

newswasboring · 2 years ago
What could regulation have done about stanley cups?
spinchange · 2 years ago
It's regarded as an inflation hedge but it seems more accurate to describe it as a measure of liquidity and liquidity expectations in capital markets now. Like a "Risk-on" gauge.
PeterStuer · 2 years ago
Dedollarization? A fiat currency is only worth sonething if people are willing to accept it for actual stuff. Maybe it is different over there, but looking around an average EU home or business, I do not see much stuff 'made in USA'. And with a credible threat of CBDC's on the horizon, diversifying even a small % of your portfolio in some gold or bitcoin might be an acceptable hedge.
ygouzerh · 2 years ago
It was mostly due to the market being very low the last year and beginning of the year :

- Interest rates rise cut cash flow to many startups - NFT bubble burst - And mostly: the FTX drama, which froze even more investments in the market

Now it's starting to get back to "normal" (actually a bit more than normal with the Bitcoin spot ETF being approved)

sfmz · 2 years ago
Try asking in a forum that doesn't hate crypto with the fury of 1000 suns, you may get a better answer.
jf22 · 2 years ago
I've always viewed this site as pro-crypto but with a realistic view of the pros and cons.
AnimalMuppet · 2 years ago
I don't think HN has a unified view of crypto. Some are as smfz says. Some are pro-crypto, almost to the point of being shills. Some are more thoughtful, as you say.

So if you want to view HN as hating crypto, you can find posts that confirm that. If you want to see it as heavily pro-crypto, you can also find confirmation.

Deleted Comment

Workaccount2 · 2 years ago
HN is a website full of people who know what crypto is, and therefore know how insanely overvalued it is.

Crypto is like the startup that perpetually just burns cash, but keeps on luring in investors with its shiny tech, huge promises, and ever expanding user base. But people in the know are aware that that tech isn't especially useful.

That being said: I am riding this wave again, as I have ridden two of the past three and might as well harvest while the sun is shining.