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Posted by u/googlelayoff24 2 years ago
Tell HN: Google-Wide Layoffs
Leads across Google are sending coordinated emails within their orgs announcing layoffs. They've all gone out in the last 2 hours or so.

They've fragmented the layoffs on purpose to make them seem more localized, but it's affecting the whole company.

Orgs that I've heard/I'm part of that have been impacted so far include Ads, Search, Assistant, Maps Android & Core.

I'm sure there are more, but I can't confirm.

I can't find WARN notices yet, so I assume they haven't been filed yet in any state.

ulfw · 2 years ago
Google stock is up 56% compared to a year go.

And yet Sundar is happy to destroy morale by keeping to fire people.

after saying "Google's CEO, Sundar Pichai, Says Laying Off 12,000 Workers Was the Worst Moment in the Company's 25-Year History"

https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/googles-ceo-sundar-pichai-say...

infotainment · 2 years ago
It’s shocking he hasn’t been sacked yet. He’s completely incompetent, has led exactly zero successful initiatives, and has arguably trashed Google’s brand with constant product shutdowns.
rchaud · 2 years ago
> He’s completely incompetent, has led exactly zero successful initiatives,

That's not what the stock ticker says. That's what the CEO's job is at megacorps, not "product innovation". Google has one core product, Ads.

Everything else loses money.

belter · 2 years ago
Yeah. It makes you wonder what is Google's secret to only Hire and Promote the Best People...
dcrow0 · 2 years ago
he's not going to appease rank and file. he's in the pockets of his wall street, private equity bros
ilrwbwrkhv · 2 years ago
As I have been saying for a while Google, Amazon, Facebook, all these companies are on the decline. We have allowed them to become so big that they don't fall fast but it's very apparent that they would have been disrupted if they were normal sized like companies were in the past.
ddano · 2 years ago
For FB/Meta the decline is very obvious on the technological side as well. Nothing really works properly on their platform. And I'm not talking about their basic user features - I'm talking about the features that make them money.

Ad setup doesn't work, you are hitting random errors on setting up API calls, basic UX and non-functional pixel setups, some weird limits or even plain unresponsive pages.

Just few days ago, talking to their support about ficitonal ad account limit after hitting 5 ad accoutns, they responded to me randomly with system messages in vietnamese - my acc has never had association with vietnamese.

gardenhedge · 2 years ago
Facebook obviously did a great job in handling so much traffic but things have always been crap. Notifications on the Web and when they tried to get into mobile spring to mind.
joak · 2 years ago
Microsoft was once on the decline and it's now bouncing back. Having billions and captive markets (by network effect) seems to help.
screye · 2 years ago
Microsoft did decline. Windows, office MSFT mobile and Xbox have either stagnated at the top or declined. Now, stagnation at a few dozen billions in revenue is still good. But very much legacy company stuff.

Microsoft built a whole another company called Azure. Smartly acquired 2 other companies called LinkedIn and Github. Then invested early in the biggest phenomenon of the post covid world - Openai.

Google ended the 2000s with Ads, Search, Youtube and Android. It's 2023 and not much has changed. Facebook sustains it's growth entirely through multi-billion$ acquisitions.

In all cases, the original middle management did very little to help.

Azure is the only exception.

paulus_magnus2 · 2 years ago
Microsoft has access to ALL corporate data of ALL companies (sharepoint, teams, outlook, office365). Remaining step is to link chatgpt to it and train automated agents.
Zetobal · 2 years ago
Microsoft is too big to fail the perfect place for a shit ceo like Satya to just hold the finger in the wind and go with the flow.
gfdsgdfgfd · 2 years ago
> We have allowed them to become so big

You have?

poncho_romero · 2 years ago
I believe they are using the democratic _we_ (as opposed to the royal _we_).
okdood64 · 2 years ago
> As I have been saying for a while

I mean this seriously:

Who are you (not name, but in terms of your significance in the community), and why does it matter what you've been saying for a while now?

belter · 2 years ago
Or Coders are on the decline and Gemini is taking over Development?
episteme · 2 years ago
By what measure?
gfdsgdfgfd · 2 years ago
By the one they that was revealed in their dream.
bossyTeacher · 2 years ago
I wonder what does this mean for the "Everyone can code" movement (bootcamps, initiatives within Google and the like, government funding). They keep saying that you can get a high paying job if you do a 9 month course. When the best of the field are getting laid off, I wonder how long will the "Everyone can code" movement survive
codingdave · 2 years ago
That concept doesn't hold water. If everyone can code, it won't be a high paying skill. And soon, it will really be true that everyone can code. Schools are teaching computational thought as early as kindergarten, so the next generation is growing up with coding being a basic literacy skill.

Of course, knowing how to code and being good at creating software are two different things. Just like knowing how to write and being able to succeed as a novelist are two different things.

But that is also why the "best of the field" get laid off - why pay FAANG salaries to get the best, when entry/mid-level salaries to get "good enough" still meets business needs?

talldatethrow · 2 years ago
I keep hearing that schools are teaching 'computational thought' and programming, but then I also hear that kids can't do math at anywhere near the expected level, can't read at their expected level, and have zero attention span. Either someone is lying or very wrong.
mdip · 2 years ago
I think about it this way -- when I was a kid, being able to navigate a command prompt (DOS!) put you in a category way ahead of most adults using computers every day.

Of course, normal users use the terminal as much now as they do, then, but mostly because "they don't ever have to"[0], but yet they're able to accomplish things that might have been relegated to the category of "computer programming" just a decade ago.

Programming software is just another way of using a computer in a more advanced manner than mere mortals. Programming gets simpler, more enter the field, junior developers become more powerful and the difference between the expert and the novice increases or decreases depending on which direction you look at it from.

In 1986, my Dad, a non-programmer, and a "power user" but not expert in PCs, used Lotus 1-2-3 to design an invoicing and accounting tool that had a UI, forms, printed formatted output and tracked everything in a database-like manner in a file. I called him a non-programmer, but was he?

[0] When your PC boots into a `C>`, you better know what to type to get it to do something other than that.

kingkongjaffa · 2 years ago
> so the next generation is growing up with coding being a basic literacy skill.

meanwhile gen z have no concept of file browsers or the command line, they've only ever dealt in apps.

hintymad · 2 years ago
We've been having a phenomenon for years: engineers reported that it was hard to find a good job, while companies reported that they couldn't find good engineers. So, it may be that everyone can learn to code, but not everyone can survive the grind of the industry.
dickersnoodle · 2 years ago
>But that is also why the "best of the field" get laid off - why pay FAANG salaries to get the best, when entry/mid-level salaries to get "good enough" still meets business needs?

Maybe a better chant for town hall meetings would be "We're number 2! We're number 2!"...

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bossyTeacher · 2 years ago
I know. But it has been parrotted in the last decade even by the (usually) smart folks of HN
sk11001 · 2 years ago
Recently the only people who have been saying that it’s easy to become a programmer in a few months are the ones selling you the way to get there.
bossyTeacher · 2 years ago
> only people who have been saying that it’s easy to become a programmer in a few months are the ones selling you the way to get there

Hasn't this group of people always comprised like 90% of the Everyone Can Code group?

superfishal · 2 years ago
THIS
JohnFen · 2 years ago
> They keep saying that you can get a high paying job if you do a 9 month course.

It's good if this way of thinking dies. It does a disservice to those taking the course, and it does a disservice to the industry.

taylodl · 2 years ago
"High Paying Job" simply means more than minimum wage. There are a lot of Americans for which $40K to $50K income would be considered good. $60K to $70K would be considered great.
favabeanzzz · 2 years ago
Erm, who says the folks being laid off are the "best of the field?"
bossyTeacher · 2 years ago
Best of the field was an exaggeration but I just meant very experienced devs. For newbie devs, it is the same. People that either in paper, in practice or both are better than your average $NONAME company dev. To get a job at FAANG, you need to be a good programmer. The folks at FAANGs aren't regular devs. And they are being laid off.
alexeiz · 2 years ago
Supposedly Google only hires the best of the best. Now it appears they hired a lot of mediocrity? So much for their lauded hiring process.
JohnFen · 2 years ago
Some are, some aren't. The decisions about who to lay off are not generally connected to how good they are.
gumballindie · 2 years ago
Oh but they will get high pay compared to their bartending job.
bossyTeacher · 2 years ago
will they? The job market is full of high quality experienced devs. I don't see why any company would hire for an inexperienced dev when they can get an experienced one for cheap. It's like buying Walmart cheese for $5 when you can get high end cheese for $10. No brainer
throwawaygoog6 · 2 years ago
Can confirm. Core Developer is impacted, with what appears to be roughly an 8-10% layoff.
matesz · 2 years ago
Can you elaborate what is the role of a core developer?

From my understanding core developer is somebody who works on something fundamental, like build system, general monorepo structure and architecture.

I would be curious to hear insights if anyone has understanding or experience in these roles.

UncleMeat · 2 years ago
Core Developer is the org that provides key software that developers use to build and deploy applications. Stuff like "we ship the java compiler" and "we ship the IDE."
upon_drumhead · 2 years ago
Roughly what’s the Core Developer size?
lennannard · 2 years ago
let me know if yall want to come work at Microsoft. reach out to me about it https://www.linkedin.com/in/leepenkman/
gandalfgreybeer · 2 years ago
Hey guys, this is a pretty decent gesture no matter what you think of Microsoft after mass layoffs. No need to be snarky.
rakoo · 2 years ago
How is this a decent gesture ? Any employer with visibility and cash flow wants to hire engineers. Do you think employers are doing workers a favor and being so nice and humane when they go out of their way and give us poor peons a chance at a job ?
curious_baldy · 2 years ago
only want people from google?
bossyTeacher · 2 years ago
All of us? HN is quite a big place. Is HR ready to be DDossed with applications?
altairprime · 2 years ago
My employer’s (not Microsoft) biggest problem has been getting any competent sysadmins to apply at all. Maybe one in a few hundred applicants is capable enough to interview; the rest are just cookie-cutter cloud-only SREs who’ve never cared for a server before. They’d love to be “DDoS’d with applicants”, because there might be a few capable sysadmins in that pile! And we’re a lot smaller than Microsoft — so, yes, most likely, they’re ready.

(Our job postings are all published on the usual job database sites under the usual sysadmin/opseng titles, and I don’t have any sort of special intake process to offer beyond that.)

reaperman · 2 years ago
Thank you.
belter · 2 years ago
Do you hire Humans or only LLMs?
sinuhe69 · 2 years ago
Their revenue growth is still good. Stock price increased. We are in a bad economy for one or two more years, but it already started a year ago. So what could the the reason for this time mass layoff? Section 174?
ssundarraj · 2 years ago
Unlikely to be section 174

> Google: the tax change was minimal, because Google was voluntarily amortizing software development expenses for most staff, already. This was for all projects that reached “technological feasibility,” which is a milestone products pass before public release.

Source: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/section-174/

tensility · 2 years ago
Well, Christopher Hohn demanded that the Fortune 50 correct salaries by performing mass general layoffs, and that's what they are doing.
dcrow0 · 2 years ago
bad economy? the economy is shit for tech, everywhere else, it's booming. there is a shortage of labor in education, hospitals, government, hospitality, retail

the reason it's shit for tech is the greed of wall street. they want more short term gains

JohnFen · 2 years ago
> the economy is shit for tech

Even this is overstating it. It's shit for some segments of the tech sector, but in other segments it's going gangbusters. On the whole, it doesn't seem unusually good or bad.

photon_collider · 2 years ago
Surprised to see another cycle of layovers happening here. What’s going on in the industry?
gfdsgdfgfd · 2 years ago
> Surprised to see another cycle of layovers happening here. What’s going on in the industry?

Nature is healing itself. The boom cycle is over. Correction is in the process.

rchaud · 2 years ago
Rewarding shareholders.
AndrewKemendo · 2 years ago
Investors want more money
gfdsgdfgfd · 2 years ago
They always do. Are you one of those who'd prefer to be poor and sick rather than rich and healthy yourself?
superconduct123 · 2 years ago
I mean the salaries have been kinda ridiculous in recent years

Not surprised

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sgammon · 2 years ago
Hang in there Googlers :(
LargeTomato · 2 years ago
What I would give for 24 hours of access to memegen.
gaws · 2 years ago
No doubt people have lost their jobs because of memegen.
dcrow0 · 2 years ago
they will land on their feet, stop it with the pity party
sgammon · 2 years ago
Empathy is free