I like new cars. I like the new technology, new features, new safety standards, all of it. I even like the smell (though it's probably cancerous, whatever). So while I get that the knee jerk answer is "I love my old car and I'm never buying anything made since 2001", I think the better discussion to be having is how we adjust regulations to affirm that in fact we do still own the cars we buy, regardless of the technology installed in them.
I'll do you one further. If buy a game on Steam, I should be able to play it on PlayStation as well.
It's the exact same product - the perceived difference is a mirage. Digital media is the only product that works this way, and it's stupid.
Platforms and stores would have to, I don't know, actually compete then. Who offers the better experience? The better price? The better device? Not "You bought your shit here, so you're stuck. Sorry"
Platform holders should take a cut of anything sold on their platform, but it's because a user chose to buy it from them because they offer a better service, not because it's the only way they can use it.
My reservations about DRM aside, you can still achieve this without dropping DRM. It would have copy protection still.
I love my 2001 Chevy Silverado short bed regular cab 4x4 truck. My friend also liked it, so he bought a slightly newer next gen 2009 Silverado.
His fuel pump management module died. That was weird enough to me. Why does a fuel pump need a module? Just give it 12v and call it a day, like cars have done for 50 years.
Gets even better. He bought a used one off eBay. Wouldnt work. The module needs to be programmed to his Vin#. Why??? Security? What security, when the programmers are available online, craigslist people will do it for you, mechanics have the tools, and even if you went to a dealer I somehow doubt they check against some theft database or anything. It's all insane.
On a lot of newer cars the fuel injectors, fuel pump, and starter are part of the immobilizer system.
The transponder in the key bow or your keyfob is checked by the car and it needs to see the right key for those parts to function.
This is part of the anti-theft to stop simple hot wiring. Although I will be honest seems more like away for dealerships to charge an insane amount for new keys.
If I am being generous the security would be trying to stop the car running in the event those are tampered with but I don’t entirely believe it.
To be more fuel-efficient? Or to block the fuel line for anti-theft purposes?
The software part of their houses is total mess, but they won't just arbitrarily add pieces of hardware that don't make any sense to someone (you, them, dealership, or some government) - that'd be a waste of money.
Not theft of the part but of the vehicle, i.e., the fuel pump is part of the immobilizer. The programmer will only work if the manufacturer central system agrees, and it wont if the vehicle was reported as stolen.
That doesn't solve the problem. I mean, a manufacturer that doesn't want to grant you access to repair your car can use analog computers, analog transmission/reception protocols and most importantly, deny selling you proprietary parts, tools and documentation. That is, unless you were expecting them to make new cars reusing designs from the '70s.
No, what I need is a manufacturer that is willing to sell at reasonable price the parts, diagnostic/repair tools and documentation to any car owner or repair shop without any delays or restrictions.
Even better, I would like a car that doesn't save and/or transmit to the manufacturer any information about my car usage and location. Or a manufacturer that supports my right to modify the car any way that I wish. But those two are completely different topics. Related, but not the same as right-to-repair.
There are always loopholes around regulations, "kit cars" that you need to assemble yourself (even if it's a simple last step) being one of the most well-known.
Buy a cheap used car and convert it to electric. I'm serious.
For the price of a modern, cellular tracking device with wheels you can buy a classic retro "sleeper" car that's an EV with hundreds of miles of charging capacity.
Ah yes, becoming a mechanic and building your own car is the solution.
For the people who can do it it's great, but most just can't. I can barely change my tires, how would I swap an entire drivetrain and rewire the whole thing?
Last time I investigated this idea, there was virtually no practical instructions, and any kits that might have been available were from sketchy looking companies in India. Am I wrong about this?
Nope. The kits (that cost less than 3x the car) suck. The good conversions are largely repurposing modern running gear from a tesla or other ev. Also typically consting more than what you seek to convert.
Just buy and drive a used car. Making more waste is a bigger net environmental harm than running the ice engine.
You’re right on the money, this idea is very popular with three groups of people; mechanically inclined with money and infinite free time, lots money and no real need for a car, and people who have done no research but think it’s a cool idea.
I don't think it's easy. You can in theory buy a motor from ford, get a battery from somewhere else, and tape it together. You need to at least know someone with a lot of equipment and time to help.
While this can provide a solution for some people with enough skill AND equipment, it doesn't offer one to anybody who is missing one of either of those things.
Further, it omly delays the inevitable. One day there's not going to be enough vehicles left to convert that one can readily find parts for.
My next vehicle will be brand new anyway. I hate the idea of products that can't be worked on without asking the manufacturer for permission, the increased safety compared to cars from the 90s/00s is too important to ignore.
Does anyone have the data on what an individual's chance of dying in any particular year is if they drive a car from, say, 2000, vs. a car from 2020? The difference has to be so slim, my gut feeling is the difference between 1 in 50,000,000 and 1 in 100,000,000. But I guess that's why I'm asking for the actual metric.
Actually owning the vehicle, paying less for it, having a less complex more reliable vehicle, having a vehicle I can maintain myself, having a vehicle that obeys my commands rather than deciding on its own to refuse to run or to slam on the brakes, a vehicle that doesn't phone home data about me and my driving, is so much more important to me than a lottery ticket odds difference in whether I might die.
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If I buy a game on steam, I should be allowed to sell it. Just like I’d be allowed to sell a physical game.
If I buy a game, no DRM claim should be able to claw back that game from me.
It's the exact same product - the perceived difference is a mirage. Digital media is the only product that works this way, and it's stupid.
Platforms and stores would have to, I don't know, actually compete then. Who offers the better experience? The better price? The better device? Not "You bought your shit here, so you're stuck. Sorry"
Platform holders should take a cut of anything sold on their platform, but it's because a user chose to buy it from them because they offer a better service, not because it's the only way they can use it.
My reservations about DRM aside, you can still achieve this without dropping DRM. It would have copy protection still.
His fuel pump management module died. That was weird enough to me. Why does a fuel pump need a module? Just give it 12v and call it a day, like cars have done for 50 years.
Gets even better. He bought a used one off eBay. Wouldnt work. The module needs to be programmed to his Vin#. Why??? Security? What security, when the programmers are available online, craigslist people will do it for you, mechanics have the tools, and even if you went to a dealer I somehow doubt they check against some theft database or anything. It's all insane.
The transponder in the key bow or your keyfob is checked by the car and it needs to see the right key for those parts to function.
This is part of the anti-theft to stop simple hot wiring. Although I will be honest seems more like away for dealerships to charge an insane amount for new keys.
If I am being generous the security would be trying to stop the car running in the event those are tampered with but I don’t entirely believe it.
To be more fuel-efficient? Or to block the fuel line for anti-theft purposes?
The software part of their houses is total mess, but they won't just arbitrarily add pieces of hardware that don't make any sense to someone (you, them, dealership, or some government) - that'd be a waste of money.
No, what I need is a manufacturer that is willing to sell at reasonable price the parts, diagnostic/repair tools and documentation to any car owner or repair shop without any delays or restrictions.
Even better, I would like a car that doesn't save and/or transmit to the manufacturer any information about my car usage and location. Or a manufacturer that supports my right to modify the car any way that I wish. But those two are completely different topics. Related, but not the same as right-to-repair.
There's a startup that is making a pledge to support your right to repair, but they are not manufacturing their cars yet. And honestly, their cars aren't for everybody: https://aptera.us/right-to-repair-commitment-feat-rich-rebui...
Couldn't imagine being stuck in an overpriced spyware cage.
For the price of a modern, cellular tracking device with wheels you can buy a classic retro "sleeper" car that's an EV with hundreds of miles of charging capacity.
Bespoke EVs, for the win!
For the people who can do it it's great, but most just can't. I can barely change my tires, how would I swap an entire drivetrain and rewire the whole thing?
Just buy and drive a used car. Making more waste is a bigger net environmental harm than running the ice engine.
I would
Resell value greatly increased when a professional warranty is applied to your conversion.
From the third one:
Price Range: Turn key conversion - contact for a quote, DIY kits $19,185 to $22,500
Can you link to a kit you'd recommend?
Further, it omly delays the inevitable. One day there's not going to be enough vehicles left to convert that one can readily find parts for.
Actually owning the vehicle, paying less for it, having a less complex more reliable vehicle, having a vehicle I can maintain myself, having a vehicle that obeys my commands rather than deciding on its own to refuse to run or to slam on the brakes, a vehicle that doesn't phone home data about me and my driving, is so much more important to me than a lottery ticket odds difference in whether I might die.
In 1985, before airbags etc: 2.5 deaths per 100 million miles travelled.
In 2000, after airbags: 1.5 deaths per 100 million miles travelled.
After 2010, with extra safety systems: Around 1.1 deaths per 100 million miles travelled.