Ask HN: Is it a bad time to take a sabbatical?

I would approach it by looking at the market now and seeing what's available. It doesn't guarantee there will be a great fit at the end of your sabbatical, but it should give numbers to guide by.

I feel like it's a bit like the stock market. You can't predict it, and timing the market may not be helpful. If you need a break - you need a break. If we imagine a graph, the damage from burnout will at some point exceed the damage of taking a break and not immediately finding a new job.

Might not be super helpful, but mental health quote I read recently was: if you're strong enough to leave, you're strong enough to find your way again afterwards.

philomath_mn · 2 years ago

> If you need a break - you need a break

Who is to say that a break in the form of a sabbatical is the only way to improve OP's mental health? What about other time off, changing the structure of the work-week, changing how time is spent outside of work, therapy, etc?

> if you're strong enough to leave, you're strong enough to find your way again afterwards

This may be true about OP's individual effort, but it is a separate question whether that amount of effort (or _any_ amount of effort) will be enough to land a job in a bearish market.

gymbeaux · 2 years ago

I can tell you firsthand that the ONLY cure for a shitty, soul-draining job is to quit. As for the timing, it could be better, but it could be worse. Plenty of openings out there as long as your stack isn’t COBOL. C and Python are particularly strong for AI/ML related efforts at places like Nvidia and data science/engineering at many places, respectively. Ultimately, having a job is pointless if it kills (literally or figuratively).

OP being a PM will probably have a harder time of course, but IMO there’s no point having a job if you’re miserable.

neofrommatrix · 2 years ago

Your advice helped! Thank you.

I don't think the startup is going to factor in that you worked 12 years without a break when evaluating your request.

I think it depends on the stage of the startup, and how much of a key employee you are to it. Can they afford to have you away for that long? Do they have a PTO accrual policy? Have you been making use of it? Do you have at least 6 months of savings for bills / rent should you not have a job? Also consider the expenditures you'll have while taking the sabbatical with half the household income.

A strategy I used to do was that I took unpaid PTO when I wanted time off to let the PTO accrue, then took all of it at once when it maxed out (when that happened, I was on PTO for a month and half) after finishing a major project that took a year to complete. The PTO would also increase in value as I got raises over time.

The company wised up and stopped letting people do unpaid PTO if you had PTO to use because of me.

Even if it's unpaid leave, they still have to pay for your benefits while you're away I think.

Going on the face value of what your original post says, it sounds like a very risky thing to do. PMs are going to have a significantly more difficult time getting a job than an engineer I think.

dataflow · 2 years ago

> unpaid PTO

I think that's UTO :-)

theogravity · 2 years ago

lol yes thank you

rhapsodic · 2 years ago

>I think that's UTO :-)

In some places, "PTO" stands for "Personal Time Off". In those places, there can be paid PTO and unpaid PTO.

ryandrake · 2 years ago

> Going on the face value of what your original post says, it sounds like a very risky thing to do. PMs are going to have a significantly more difficult time getting a job than an engineer I think.

OP said he was a dev for 10 years and recently switched over to being a PM. If PMs suddenly became less hirable than developers, perhaps he could switch back?

I also started out as a developer, got into product and then project manager, so I'm crossing my fingers, hoping that I can fall back on my "base" of software development if things go south.

neofrommatrix · 2 years ago

That’s always an option, I think. I have some references I can use to get back into dev if required. Thanks so much.

neofrommatrix · 2 years ago

Thank you so much.

I think a lot of responders here might be very young, even so young that they entered the workforce around 2011 or so and have never experienced a prolonged bear market. If that's the case for you, welcome to the shit. The days of sending your resume out on Monday and having a job offer with a 50% pay bump by Friday are over.

Having survived through all the tech downturns from 2000 onward, I would say: If you think your job is reasonably secure, don't even think about leaving it right now. Slow down a bit, maybe coast some and see if your mental health improves, take a week here and a week there of sick time, but don't let go of the life boat!

If you think burnout is bad, try having to send out hundreds of resumes and get one or two responses. That sucks. It sucks doubly when you are doing it at 11AM on a Tuesday because you're unemployed. Don't voluntarily do this to yourself.

pcdoodle · 2 years ago

Sounds like the OP has a boat that can float even with 50% power.

Your advice is good and fits most sizes and I would like to present the flip side of the coin: 10 years in the game is a lot credential wise and I think could be an opportunity to refit at sea and decide a new course.

It really depends on what risk OP and partner are comfortable with.

Thanks everyone here for their inputs.

_k7dr · 2 years ago

Other people may have more luck than me. My situation, since being laid off half a year ago I figured I'd try to enjoy the time while it lasted, and travel a bit. Felt like I was close to burning out myself near the end of my previous tenure. Now... it feels like I've truly burnt out from job hunting 9 to 5. Only managed to get one technical screen I didn't pass, and they didn't give a reason. Drove me mad trying to figure out why, but I never did. Haven't gotten even a phone screen ever since, and it's been months.

I'm thinking that since finances and such are pushing me to the end of my rope my only option is menial work for the time being. I think I am depressed. Even if I got another screen and passed I don't know if I'd be capable of the work any longer. It's all hideously demoralizing and it's as if there's no light at the end of the tunnel. I was at a reasonably large company for five years previous, I guess there's only so much that can do in a zero-sum situation like now.

But again, I'm not sure if you'd have worse luck getting any sort of interview for an IC position at least. If burnout at work is that much of a concern and you're confident it makes less sense to go with "keep the job." But I certainly would have regretted leaving (if I had any control over the matter), knowing the job search has now turned into its own job for me, a mentally exhausting unpaid job with no guarantee of positive prospects and an endless stream of employers that reject you every week for no identifiable reason.

I am really sorry you are going through this. Thank you for your perspective and I hope things will work out for you soon.

What’s your stack? I’d love to see your resume. I’m not hiring but I/HN community may have some constructive feedback. The market is slowed but not that slowed. My first thought is you’re in a stack that doesn’t have a lot of openings anyway, like Ruby or Swift.

accrual · 2 years ago

riansanderson · 2 years ago

At its root, I don’t think this question is really about the logistics of taking a sabbatical.

Something I didn’t fully recognize when I was burnt out: burnout is a personal emotional issue. At that time I (mistakenly) considered emotions a bug and not a feature.

So whatever direction you decide to go on the sabbatical, I highly recommend endeavoring to discover some emotional support and growth.

Online talk therapy has helped me greatly, but mostly the book I wish I had back then is “The Happiness Trap: How to Stop Struggling and Start Living”

https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Trap-Struggling-Start-Livin...

Thank you; That book has some good exercises when I skimmed through it today. Thanks for the suggestion.

willcipriano · 2 years ago

In the pro column: Capital is cracking the whip, that means less opportunities for rewards for the rank and file. This is a great time to take a break and save energy for a time where efforts are more likely to be rewarded.

dieselgate · 2 years ago

Sucks to be rank and file at times but this is a valid point, inline with my personal impressions as well

rrr_oh_man · 2 years ago

I just took a 3 month break after working 12 years almost non stop.

Rebuilt my kitchen (manual work, accomplishments, yay!), visited some cool places, reconnected with old friends.

Didn’t think about work for _weeks_, at least.

Even though there’s nothing good in the horizon, yet, and, quite honestly, the money is drying up, I’m glad I took that break.

Would have been pretty miserable by now.

Burn out is not worth it.

Thank you! Are you still on a break? Good luck with finding a new one!

ytNumbers · 2 years ago

A dangerous move, indeed! It's not the greatest employment market to be taking such a risk. Having said that, you have to weigh ALL of the risks for your situation. Since you fear you might be on the verge of burnout, my opinion is that you must take a break despite the risks. I say this because I once knew someone who suffered burnout, and it took them FOUR YEARS to finally be able to return to the work force. A four month self-imposed break looks a lot better than four years of being unable to work. You may struggle to find work if we wind up in a recession four months from now, but a four month break after so many years in the industry should not raise any big red flags with employers. You don't want to work for any manager who would label you as lazy for taking four months off after so many years.

krankin1 · 2 years ago

It’s always going to feel risky until you do it. Once you do, you’ll see that it isn’t quite as scary as you think. An added bonus, if in the future you ever do find yourself temporarily out of work you’ll know it’s not the end of the world.

I took a sabbatical April of 22, thinking I would take 3 months off, it took a full year before I felt like I was ready to go back to work. Taking off was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I’ve spent more time with my family, been able to pursue some hobbies I previously didn’t have time for, and have cultivated stronger relationships because I’ve been able to spend time with people I care for. In short, do it. You won’t regret it.

Thank you!