This kind of release schedule totally ruins the entire premise of their products. The Fairphone 3 is barely four years old and you already can't get replacement parts for it anymore. And for what? Only because they slightly changed the chassis, instead of offering a new base version with more modern components. On top of that, the 3 will also lose security updates in 12 months. So you will be forced to trash your phone after 5 years tops. Compare that to Apple, who still support their seven year old iPhone 7 with parts and security updates. The problem is that a "real" Fairphone, that actually stands up to its values, is a terrible business idea. So no profit oriented company will ever be able to fulfill that promise.
The bottom module has been out of stock for a while[1], and is also the part that's probably going to break first due to the amount of use it gets when charging daily. As someone who needs to put their FP3+ in _just_ the right position for it to charge, I'm very tempted to buy a new phone so I don't have to deal with the anxiety of wondering if it's properly charging when I go to bed.
Before anyone says: yes, I have cleaned the USB port out. Cutting a triangle off a credit card and using the corner worked the best in my experience.
I still would pay for the other "fair" aspects of the Fairphone, but until I can actually repair it I'm not going to consider it a repairable phone.
Actually fairly incredible that you can still get spare parts for a 8 year old smart phone (the Fairphone 2). The problem from my POV was, that the hardware specs were already way past their expiration date when I sold mine 3 years ago, even when using rather unexciting apps, making spare parts somewhat obsolete.
Are later FPs set up to offer chip upgrades to avoid this dilemma?
It's sad that the Fairphone 3 is losing support already, though I think that's much more down to upstream vendors of the hardware not providing support for the chipset, not Fairphone themselves
In terms of the release schedule I think it's important to continue to have a "jumping on point" for customers who want to switch to a Fairphone. It's hard to convince someone to replace a 3-5 year old phone for another 3 year old model
As long as they keep providing 8+ years of support for newer models I think it's the best option, since the company also need to have a continuous revenue stream to exist for the full lifetime of their phones
I was sad to see that parts for this new phone are also incompatible with the Fairphone 4 [0]. Granted, they do specically say "repairable", not "upgradeable", but it does kind of rub me the wrong way.
I'd love to see Framework make a phone. I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion, it doesn't mean not selling anyone anything for years, it just means selling upgraded/alternative/replacement parts instead? But the desire for it is pretty niche.
I'd like to see a list of compatibility of parts between fairphone versions. I couldn't find any Fairphone's website. If there is nothing compatible, I really don't see the point either. Like if I had a 4 and was only interested in the upgraded camera, why can't I just put a camera from the 5 in the 4th? That would be actually game changing.
There were some prototypes like phonebloks (later named project Ara) ten years ago, which sadly was cancelled
Interchangeable parts between models is really hard, since your support burden kind of explodes when you have to support several parts for several models, so it would probably not be sustainable for a smaller company like Fairphone
With that said, I remember a Fairphone representative saying they were looking into if they could provide upgrades for the FP5 down the line, as the longer lifespan of this model might makes it economically feasible for them
I wouldn't base any purchase on that until there's an official announcement though
Personally I'm happy enough with the value proposition as it is to be getting myself an FP5
I must admit I'm having trouble relating to the strong desire to have a phone that's more repairable than an iPhone.
There have been a couple times I've had a problem with my iPhone under AppleCare. I've gone to my nearest Apple Store, and pretty quickly walked out with a new iPhone that works perfectly and contains all my data and, for all practical purposes, is exactly as if my old one never broke. That seems pretty repairable to me, on the axes I care about.
It does mean I have to pay for AppleCare, but my guess is that on average you're not going to get away much more cheaply with years of use of a more "repairable" phone.
I'd be interested in seeing counterarguments. I'm not trying to dispute anyone's claims about repairability. I just honestly don't get it.
[Update: the main thing I'm getting from responses is that people care about their being low-cost, easily repairable phones for people who can't afford iPhones and Apple Care; the enthusiasm is empathy-based. That makes a lot of sense to me. I don't know of a source for actually comparing long-term costs, though. Are you sure the repairable phones are actually cheaper to own, long-term? Arguments about the environment make less sense to me since the broken phone is refurbished and used again. I asked, and I got useful answers. Thanks, HN!
I've gotten a lot of downvotes for this question, though, which mystifies me... why downvote an honest question? It seems unfriendly and uncharitable.]
It's about making it accessible to everyone, not just you who can afford an iPhone and AppleCare.
It creates jobs by letting independent repair shops legitimately fix and repair your devices. Small business is important to our economy. It also creates competition for service. Your AppleCare service is good... for now... how long before Apple becomes like IBM? Maybe it'll never happen, but it might!
Also, by making the iPhone repairable, it sets a standard (and possible legal backing) to make every device repairable. This applies to different phones, your laptop, your car, the speakers you bought.
It also allows someone to buy a part and replace it instead of chucking the whole device when some small part breaks. This helps reduce e-waste and general landfill garbage.
It also allows folks who come under tough times to just buy a knock-off battery and have their cousin install it until they get their next pay-cheque and can afford to take their phone in for Apple Care.
You're thinking only about yourself, what about people less privileged than yourself? What about people who rely on Apple to do the right thing so that their manufacturers follow suit (Android)? You can't just trust a company will always be good, sometimes you have to enforce or push for good.
I supported a few fleets of smartphones back in the windows mobile and blackberry days, when they all had replaceable batteries.
Do you know what people did when the batteries died? They overwhelmingly bought a new phone.
Just because something is technically modular doesn't mean that:
1. other people know how to diagnose the problem
2. other people want to spend time or effort repairing the phone
3. other people don't just want a new phone anyway
While people on this forum are often power users or technically minded people who like spending mental cycles on their devices, this is not what other people are like. People who are purely users delegate the fixing of their devices to others.
A refurbished iPhone 12 is $449. A brand new iPhone SE is $429, $17.87/mo. for 24 months... or $11.91/month from a carrier.
AppleCare+ with Theft and Loss is $7.50/month
So you're looking at ~$20/month for a phone that Apple will replace instantly if it breaks or gets stolen. Is someone who doesn't have access to credit really going to be able to afford a cheaper android phone and the tools to repair it and the parts to repair it?
> not just you who can afford an iPhone and AppleCare.
I’m not sure I understand. An iPhone SE is cheaper than a fairphone, with longer support and far better specs. From a quick search, third party knock off replacement screens and battery replacement kits are cheaper for an iPhone, I assume due to the orders of magnitude difference in scale.
The math isn’t working, from my simple perspective.
I had a Fairphone 2 in Germany (where the next Apple Store was four hours away). I dropped it onto the metal blades of our radiator, which shattered the screen. I was due to go on vacation in two days.
So I express-ordered the replacement screen from Fairphone, which arrived the next day, case closed. (A similar thing happened with a Pixel 4a a few years later, which had to be mailed in, and took a week.)
My wife also had a Fairphone 2, and her headphone jack was a bit flakey. So after a few months we ordered a replacement module, which fixed the problem (for €30!). Afterwards, I emailed Fairphone as this issue had existed from the start. They refunded us the module.
And I also fondly remember the updated camera module they sold for the Fairphone 2.
Alas, these phones are too big for my tastes, which is why I no longer have one.
> Imagine if you didn’t have to replace an entire phone over a broken triviality.
I can imagine it. It wouldn't make the slightest difference to my practical experience. And then, as another commenter mentioned, my phone is refurbished and used for someone else.
I only had an issue with an iPhone once (yellowing around the edges of the display), I took it to the Apple Store and they replaced the screen. Probably the bulk of repairs (display, battery, shattered glass) don't entail a full replacement.
AppleCare is a great service. I’ve had the exact same experience!
The problem is then also ensuring all other options are artificially worse than AppleCare. Your local “mall guy” is just as capable of swapping out a battery, in theory.
It is insanely expensive. Remember that the median household income in the US is less than $70k before taxes. That means half the people are making less than that, sometimes very significantly less than that. I assume your household makes more than double that, correct?
And that’s just the United States, which is very high income compared to most of the world.
Yes. I can see that having inexpensive, repairable devices could be good for people who can't afford iPhones or AppleCare, whether in the US or elsewhere.
What I'm wondering about is the enthusiasm for them among the HN crowd. Maybe many in the HN crowd are still students, or "Ramen-profitable"...?
I just had a discussion with an Apple fanatic on HN where I tried to explain that to him, in response to him claiming people in the US make more money than most other countries which is why everyone buys luxury iphones.
> a new iPhone that works perfectly and contains all my data and, for all practical purposes, is exactly as if my old one never broke.
That is a very compelling convenience that all (phone) OS-es should strive for. I try out different phones and operating systems, but syncing the data and settings via a self-hosted device are not convenient yet.
`adb backup` will give me an archive but it's a deprecated command and so far I've never been able to restore data with it.
A system like NixOS is getting the applications in exactly the same version and configuration, but the same rigor is not there for the associated data.
Ideally, I'd be able to run a plug-and-play server at home, link it to my phone and have it take backups without ever being visible until there's a problem with running the backups. Then, when the phone needs to be replaced, link it the new phone and continue where the old one left off, including all contacts and contact history.
What? I just got a pixel fold and during the setup it asks to connect my old device (pixel 5). After a few minutes I have a carbon copy of my old device save a few apps I sideloaded.
Its completely the freedom aspect for me. Sure, Apple wont let me down because that would impact their business, but what if they did? Its also a thousand times better to be 100% sure you can modify your electronics without any fear of getting rejected like its vehicle insurance.
For some convenience is a factor. Apple stores tend to be in crowded urban areas or fancy shopping malls. In less central locations small operators and components shipped directly may be competitive offerings.
> I must admit I'm having trouble relating to the strong desire to have a phone that's more repairable than an iPhone.
I have a Fairphone for one reason & one reason only: it's not repairability, environmentally friendly material sourcing, nor software freedom. It's wages. They pay living wages in Fairphone factories.
Fwiw, that's also the substantive contributor to the price bump.
I actually want a durable phone more than a repairable phone. No need to repair a phone that doesn't break. But there is one exception, and that's the battery. Phone batteries always fail at some point, they are consumables, for chemical reasons.
A user replaceable battery makes it much less of a problem. Even with non-standard form factors (a 18650 is not very practical for a phone), even if the manufacturer drop supports, someone will make a compatible battery. Plus, you get the option of backup batteries.
So I don't really care about all the fuss about the Fairphone, except with that one feature that was once the norm, and that's the removable battery. Hopefully in a few years, it will be the norm again thanks to EU regulations, but I am not holding my breath for it.
I replaced the battery of my FairPhone last night.
I didn't need to make an appointment. I didn't need to travel. I didn't need to have yet another overpriced subscription. I didn't need to do it within business hours. I didn't need to get a massive pelican box of equipment shipped to me. I didn't need to make any expensive deposits. And I didn't need to beg anyone to please please please let me use the thing I bought.
"The counterargument is that you have to pay for AppleCare. I don't pay for anything for my phone
"
But you have to pay for the new parts, don't you? What I'm saying is that I don't know of a head-to-head comparison of long-term maintenance of a Fairphone, including buying parts to fix it, compared to buying the cheapest iPhone and Apple Care.
And when they give you a new iPhone, they refurbish the old, (and the "new" one they give you is actually refurbished), so I don't see how it adds to e-waste.
I mean... no. Apple publishes breakdowns/reports of their recycling efforts and it's pretty damn good for what it is, and these devices now last a very long time if you don't feel like chasing the yearly upgrade train.
The selling point of the Fairphone is moreso that it's:
- Attempting to pay fair wages to workers
- Not Apple, for those who just don't want an Apple device
- More (user) repair-able
These are all very valid reasons to want to use something like the Fairphone and I am glad it exists, and it might even be my next phone - but to imply that it wins out over the iPhone trade-in-and-get-it-recycled flow is just bonkers.
> I must admit I'm having trouble relating to the strong desire to have a phone that's more repairable than an iPhone.
It's good to have competition, and not many Android phones get 5 years of warranty like the new Fairphones.
iPhones are great in that they get security updates for a long time, and they can be repaired if you can afford it. Fairphone is just a different, cheaper option.
It’s a great user experience if you fall into the happy path. If you don’t (water damage on a MacBook, older than 3 year iPhone, …) it’s preposterously expensive and impractical.
At that point, you don’t have any third party alternatives, because of all the intentional anti-competitive measures they take to snuff them out.
regarding the price, it is possible to replicate a third-party solution for a cheaper phone but with some compromise.
can buy a budget phone and buy third party damage insurace (unsure how many scenarios they support and real-world experience) instead of this and compare the costs associated.
i won't be surprised if that makes more sense to more people than not, besides the abysmal software support of course.
I understand why some people don't want to pay this amount of money upfront based on the specs alone. From a "per year" cost I still think it's competitive
If they really manage to support this device for 10 years, that's $75 per year, which I think is relatively cheap
My use-case for a phone does not need a lot of processing power. I use it for messaging, checking emails, watch a bit of YouTube, and catch up on the news. I feel reasonably confident that it will be able to perform those tasks 8-10 years down the line
On top of that I also appreciate that I can buy a device that is sourced with consideration for workers and the environment. It's never good for the environment to produce new devices, but the option to limit the impact is important to me
Agreed. Though I'm personally more in favour of adding the cost at the other end. I think companies should be taxed for the cost of restoring the damage their products cause to the environment, as this would encourage competition towards more sustainable practices
Sure, if your use-case requires a lot of computational power it might be a bad fit, but as I also wrote in my post, my requirements are pretty light, in which case this phone is closer to perfect than any other I've come across
The lowest cost iPhone SE 3rd gen I can find on Apple's website is €549 with 7 years of software updates
The fp5 on Fairphones website is €529 with at least 8 years of software updates
Even if iPhones were marginally cheaper, they carry with them vendor lock-in, poor repairability, and a track record of horrendous working conditions for the workers assembling them
To me it would still be worth a small premium to avoid those drawbacks even if the fp5 was more expensive per year
Meanwhile in the real world, true convergence seems to mostly break down at the application layer. Many desktop Linux apps are not designed to work on a mobile device. It turns out that the UX in Android apps is purpose build for mobile use. This software gap seems really difficult to overcome. Not impossible, but we are not there yet in terms of mobile Linux devices being useful for the majority of consumers.... (I do think Waydroid offers some interesting opportunities here to bridge the gap!)
I agree, but first we’d need vanilla Linux working very well on laptops. If we can’t fix that, I don’t see how phones will fare better, what with their crazy amount of components and non-OSS compatible vendors.
Compared to laptops, smartphones have more sensors, and more complicated camera setup. That's about it. They're not significantly more complicated than laptops.
I think specific devices will have more likely positive outcome over time as chips don't become more performant = the design wont be obsolete and still sell many years later.
Modular devices (laptops are a mix of many modems, displays, sound, disk etc.) have had more edge case bugs because the volume is too low per generation to warrant fixes.
This, to me, feels like the most important comment on the page! It is great to develop a sweet new offering, but if one of the main selling points of your product is longevity, repair-ability, and long-term support, then I don't want to hear about all the Fairphone fans jumping up to by the next gen. I want a phone that folks are happy to stick with for years!
As a side note, for years I used a Nexus 6. Great phone (the battery was getting sketchy, but the rest of the hardware held up well for 7 years of use)! With LineageOS, I was getting a steady stream of software updates. I was finally forced off of the phone when they killed the 3G networks here in the USA (and apparently the Nexus 6 did not support VoLTE....).
I never want to charge an extra device again. I also never want to find a pair of plugs that fit me, again. It is a mystery to me why this use case is apparently so unique that there is no market for me.
I can only imagine the extra strain having a dongle plugged into your phone puts on the port with the phone being in your pocket. Say what you will about 3.5mm, but it is robust in that scenario. I've never had a 3.5mm port break before the cable that is plugged in.
USB-C ports wear out within a couple of years from just slight strain on a charging cable.
Which is an abjectly terrible solution. Dongles can be lost or forgotten, and you can't charge your phone while using one (a very big deal if your use case is to hook the phone to your car for a long drive).
And AFAICT, just like in the Lightning days, you still cannot charge the phone through the port and use the wired headphone adapter at the same time, at least without a third-party dongle.
I also am a big fan of the dedicated 3.5mm! That being said, it is definitely true that I am running out of situations where I can actually use that port on my device... sigh
There is a market for you, but it's not a very big one. Sony in particular plays to this market, but you can see from their dwindling sales, that it's rather niche.
Sony would probably have better luck if their phones weren't so incredibly expensive. As a fellow headphone jack requirer, I would love to buy a Sony phone. But I can't afford one.
The other audio problem with the Fairphone 4 is that it ranks quite low on audio tests [1]. It has playback/recording scores of about ~90, while mainstream manufacturers have cheaper phones with scores of 130+.
It is a mystery why people hate tangled cords that also get caught on things? More than leaving your pods on a charging puck when you get home? Which takes zero additional effort since you have to put them down somewhere?
Nobody's arguing with your preferences but it's a mystery to me how the convenience of wireless headphones is a mystery to you.
I get that bit. It can be irritating. But so is having an extra item to charge.
And the battery life gets constantly shorter. Lithium cells have limited life spans, they last maybe a couple of years and what do you do then?
I can accept having to change phone every few years. Modern phones are somewhat disposable. But having to change headphones would be a real drag. They are something I put in my body! It took many years to finally settle on a pair I could be comfortable with which wouldn't fall out.
And I'm not picky about sound quality. People who care about that must have it even worse. Sound signature is very personal.
For better or worse, I buy headphones for life. I would love to buy more things for life, but phones are obviously impossible. But imagine having to change your wallet or something. You probably bought jackets or trousers based upon that shape. Maybe the comparison is a stretch, the point remains that I really don't want to buy new headphones. Ever.
I have no idea what people see in wireless headphones. I have never once gotten the wire tangled, caught on something, anything like that. From my perspective, wireless headphones are "solving" a non-existent problem, at the cost of additional headache (charging) and at a higher price. They are strictly worse than wired headphones for my usage.
I've a FP4, I won't buy another Fairphone. Repairability is a dubious concept at best, and no hardware upgrade path despite larger design.
Also see the current drama with the fingerprint and android update for FP3.
Only good thing, non android os look functional.
I must say this is the biggest issue for me too. A upgrade path for the device (like framework provides for its laptops) is the biggest missing feature for me.
Uncompromising? There is no such thing as uncompromising.
Its most defining feature, for me, is its removable battery. It that, I would compare it to the Samsung Galaxy XCover 6 Pro.
Over the Fairphone 5, the Samsung Xcover has a headphone jack, dual sim and a IP68 rating, it is a rugged phone. Both can use a microSD card. The Fairphone has a better camera, better specs in general (but not best in class), and is more expensive. The Fairphone is generally more repairable, but because it is not rugged, probably more likely to break. The rest is about build quality, which is not easy to judge by the specs. The form factor is similar.
Software-wise, the Fairphone is, I think, much better. Longer support, and a more active and better supported community. The XCover 6 Pro doesn't even have a subforum on xda-developers.com. It has an unlockable bootloader, so in theory, one could run anything, but if no one cares...
All in all, I think both are worthwhile options, they just made different... compromises.
Readit News
Is there a specific part you can't find?
Before anyone says: yes, I have cleaned the USB port out. Cutting a triangle off a credit card and using the corner worked the best in my experience.
I still would pay for the other "fair" aspects of the Fairphone, but until I can actually repair it I'm not going to consider it a repairable phone.
[1] https://forum.fairphone.com/t/fairphone-3-bottom-module-avai...
Are later FPs set up to offer chip upgrades to avoid this dilemma?
In terms of the release schedule I think it's important to continue to have a "jumping on point" for customers who want to switch to a Fairphone. It's hard to convince someone to replace a 3-5 year old phone for another 3 year old model
As long as they keep providing 8+ years of support for newer models I think it's the best option, since the company also need to have a continuous revenue stream to exist for the full lifetime of their phones
0: https://thesonification.org/2023/09/01/fairphone-5-parts-won...
But I suspect that if it happened today it would have been detrimental to their ability to remain on the market.
Interchangeable parts between models is really hard, since your support burden kind of explodes when you have to support several parts for several models, so it would probably not be sustainable for a smaller company like Fairphone
With that said, I remember a Fairphone representative saying they were looking into if they could provide upgrades for the FP5 down the line, as the longer lifespan of this model might makes it economically feasible for them
I wouldn't base any purchase on that until there's an official announcement though
Personally I'm happy enough with the value proposition as it is to be getting myself an FP5
Soon you can also expect Apple to stop providing both service and parts for it (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624).
For example, Jessica Alba's "The Honest Company".
In the same way, I am suspicious of "Fairphone" as a for profit company.
That said, if a company really does value doing things differently, what are they supposed to do?
Not say so? Try not to make a profit, guaranteeing they won't be able to make a positive impact?
I think it's important to not let the deceitful marketing in the world poison the well for any possibility of honest marketing.
From what I can tell, Fairphone is working pretty hard to earn the name.
There have been a couple times I've had a problem with my iPhone under AppleCare. I've gone to my nearest Apple Store, and pretty quickly walked out with a new iPhone that works perfectly and contains all my data and, for all practical purposes, is exactly as if my old one never broke. That seems pretty repairable to me, on the axes I care about.
It does mean I have to pay for AppleCare, but my guess is that on average you're not going to get away much more cheaply with years of use of a more "repairable" phone.
I'd be interested in seeing counterarguments. I'm not trying to dispute anyone's claims about repairability. I just honestly don't get it.
[Update: the main thing I'm getting from responses is that people care about their being low-cost, easily repairable phones for people who can't afford iPhones and Apple Care; the enthusiasm is empathy-based. That makes a lot of sense to me. I don't know of a source for actually comparing long-term costs, though. Are you sure the repairable phones are actually cheaper to own, long-term? Arguments about the environment make less sense to me since the broken phone is refurbished and used again. I asked, and I got useful answers. Thanks, HN!
I've gotten a lot of downvotes for this question, though, which mystifies me... why downvote an honest question? It seems unfriendly and uncharitable.]
It creates jobs by letting independent repair shops legitimately fix and repair your devices. Small business is important to our economy. It also creates competition for service. Your AppleCare service is good... for now... how long before Apple becomes like IBM? Maybe it'll never happen, but it might!
Also, by making the iPhone repairable, it sets a standard (and possible legal backing) to make every device repairable. This applies to different phones, your laptop, your car, the speakers you bought.
It also allows someone to buy a part and replace it instead of chucking the whole device when some small part breaks. This helps reduce e-waste and general landfill garbage.
It also allows folks who come under tough times to just buy a knock-off battery and have their cousin install it until they get their next pay-cheque and can afford to take their phone in for Apple Care.
You're thinking only about yourself, what about people less privileged than yourself? What about people who rely on Apple to do the right thing so that their manufacturers follow suit (Android)? You can't just trust a company will always be good, sometimes you have to enforce or push for good.
Do you know what people did when the batteries died? They overwhelmingly bought a new phone.
Just because something is technically modular doesn't mean that:
1. other people know how to diagnose the problem
2. other people want to spend time or effort repairing the phone
3. other people don't just want a new phone anyway
While people on this forum are often power users or technically minded people who like spending mental cycles on their devices, this is not what other people are like. People who are purely users delegate the fixing of their devices to others.
A refurbished iPhone 12 is $449. A brand new iPhone SE is $429, $17.87/mo. for 24 months... or $11.91/month from a carrier. AppleCare+ with Theft and Loss is $7.50/month So you're looking at ~$20/month for a phone that Apple will replace instantly if it breaks or gets stolen. Is someone who doesn't have access to credit really going to be able to afford a cheaper android phone and the tools to repair it and the parts to repair it?
I’m not sure I understand. An iPhone SE is cheaper than a fairphone, with longer support and far better specs. From a quick search, third party knock off replacement screens and battery replacement kits are cheaper for an iPhone, I assume due to the orders of magnitude difference in scale.
The math isn’t working, from my simple perspective.
So I express-ordered the replacement screen from Fairphone, which arrived the next day, case closed. (A similar thing happened with a Pixel 4a a few years later, which had to be mailed in, and took a week.)
My wife also had a Fairphone 2, and her headphone jack was a bit flakey. So after a few months we ordered a replacement module, which fixed the problem (for €30!). Afterwards, I emailed Fairphone as this issue had existed from the start. They refunded us the module.
And I also fondly remember the updated camera module they sold for the Fairphone 2.
Alas, these phones are too big for my tastes, which is why I no longer have one.
I can imagine it. It wouldn't make the slightest difference to my practical experience. And then, as another commenter mentioned, my phone is refurbished and used for someone else.
The problem is then also ensuring all other options are artificially worse than AppleCare. Your local “mall guy” is just as capable of swapping out a battery, in theory.
And that’s just the United States, which is very high income compared to most of the world.
What I'm wondering about is the enthusiasm for them among the HN crowd. Maybe many in the HN crowd are still students, or "Ramen-profitable"...?
There are only 2 stores in all of India, for example. Even in Western Europe, depending on your country, there might not even be one.
That is a very compelling convenience that all (phone) OS-es should strive for. I try out different phones and operating systems, but syncing the data and settings via a self-hosted device are not convenient yet.
`adb backup` will give me an archive but it's a deprecated command and so far I've never been able to restore data with it.
A system like NixOS is getting the applications in exactly the same version and configuration, but the same rigor is not there for the associated data.
Ideally, I'd be able to run a plug-and-play server at home, link it to my phone and have it take backups without ever being visible until there's a problem with running the backups. Then, when the phone needs to be replaced, link it the new phone and continue where the old one left off, including all contacts and contact history.
I have a Fairphone for one reason & one reason only: it's not repairability, environmentally friendly material sourcing, nor software freedom. It's wages. They pay living wages in Fairphone factories.
Fwiw, that's also the substantive contributor to the price bump.
A user replaceable battery makes it much less of a problem. Even with non-standard form factors (a 18650 is not very practical for a phone), even if the manufacturer drop supports, someone will make a compatible battery. Plus, you get the option of backup batteries.
So I don't really care about all the fuss about the Fairphone, except with that one feature that was once the norm, and that's the removable battery. Hopefully in a few years, it will be the norm again thanks to EU regulations, but I am not holding my breath for it.
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I didn't need to make an appointment. I didn't need to travel. I didn't need to have yet another overpriced subscription. I didn't need to do it within business hours. I didn't need to get a massive pelican box of equipment shipped to me. I didn't need to make any expensive deposits. And I didn't need to beg anyone to please please please let me use the thing I bought.
From another standpoint is that you're adding to a pile of e-waste
But you have to pay for the new parts, don't you? What I'm saying is that I don't know of a head-to-head comparison of long-term maintenance of a Fairphone, including buying parts to fix it, compared to buying the cheapest iPhone and Apple Care.
And when they give you a new iPhone, they refurbish the old, (and the "new" one they give you is actually refurbished), so I don't see how it adds to e-waste.
The selling point of the Fairphone is moreso that it's:
- Attempting to pay fair wages to workers
- Not Apple, for those who just don't want an Apple device
- More (user) repair-able
These are all very valid reasons to want to use something like the Fairphone and I am glad it exists, and it might even be my next phone - but to imply that it wins out over the iPhone trade-in-and-get-it-recycled flow is just bonkers.
It's good to have competition, and not many Android phones get 5 years of warranty like the new Fairphones.
iPhones are great in that they get security updates for a long time, and they can be repaired if you can afford it. Fairphone is just a different, cheaper option.
It's about control. You're fine being in a walled garden and letting the company handle every aspect of the device for you.
Others don't like being locked in and appreciate the freedom to fix or change things on their own.
At that point, you don’t have any third party alternatives, because of all the intentional anti-competitive measures they take to snuff them out.
can buy a budget phone and buy third party damage insurace (unsure how many scenarios they support and real-world experience) instead of this and compare the costs associated.
i won't be surprised if that makes more sense to more people than not, besides the abysmal software support of course.
If they really manage to support this device for 10 years, that's $75 per year, which I think is relatively cheap
My use-case for a phone does not need a lot of processing power. I use it for messaging, checking emails, watch a bit of YouTube, and catch up on the news. I feel reasonably confident that it will be able to perform those tasks 8-10 years down the line
On top of that I also appreciate that I can buy a device that is sourced with consideration for workers and the environment. It's never good for the environment to produce new devices, but the option to limit the impact is important to me
It's more than what it would be for an iphone
The fp5 on Fairphones website is €529 with at least 8 years of software updates
Even if iPhones were marginally cheaper, they carry with them vendor lock-in, poor repairability, and a track record of horrendous working conditions for the workers assembling them
To me it would still be worth a small premium to avoid those drawbacks even if the fp5 was more expensive per year
Pinetab-V is the only portable device that seems to work in the right direction.
The GPU driver is still broken though so until then don't get your hope up.
And I know that phone != tablet... but really soon I will not need my phone.
To me it's a consume only device.
Much rather have a tablet (with a keyboard and mouse for making real world applications, headset for audio) and a Pebble watch for notifications.
The iPad still can't run MacOS...
And then you have Ubuntu Touch.
Modular devices (laptops are a mix of many modems, displays, sound, disk etc.) have had more edge case bugs because the volume is too low per generation to warrant fixes.
As a side note, for years I used a Nexus 6. Great phone (the battery was getting sketchy, but the rest of the hardware held up well for 7 years of use)! With LineageOS, I was getting a steady stream of software updates. I was finally forced off of the phone when they killed the 3G networks here in the USA (and apparently the Nexus 6 did not support VoLTE....).
I never want to charge an extra device again. I also never want to find a pair of plugs that fit me, again. It is a mystery to me why this use case is apparently so unique that there is no market for me.
USB-C ports wear out within a couple of years from just slight strain on a charging cable.
This is not the solution you claim it to be.
[1] https://www.dxomark.com/fairphone-4-audio-test/
Nobody's arguing with your preferences but it's a mystery to me how the convenience of wireless headphones is a mystery to you.
And the battery life gets constantly shorter. Lithium cells have limited life spans, they last maybe a couple of years and what do you do then?
I can accept having to change phone every few years. Modern phones are somewhat disposable. But having to change headphones would be a real drag. They are something I put in my body! It took many years to finally settle on a pair I could be comfortable with which wouldn't fall out.
And I'm not picky about sound quality. People who care about that must have it even worse. Sound signature is very personal.
For better or worse, I buy headphones for life. I would love to buy more things for life, but phones are obviously impossible. But imagine having to change your wallet or something. You probably bought jackets or trousers based upon that shape. Maybe the comparison is a stretch, the point remains that I really don't want to buy new headphones. Ever.
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Its most defining feature, for me, is its removable battery. It that, I would compare it to the Samsung Galaxy XCover 6 Pro.
Over the Fairphone 5, the Samsung Xcover has a headphone jack, dual sim and a IP68 rating, it is a rugged phone. Both can use a microSD card. The Fairphone has a better camera, better specs in general (but not best in class), and is more expensive. The Fairphone is generally more repairable, but because it is not rugged, probably more likely to break. The rest is about build quality, which is not easy to judge by the specs. The form factor is similar.
Software-wise, the Fairphone is, I think, much better. Longer support, and a more active and better supported community. The XCover 6 Pro doesn't even have a subforum on xda-developers.com. It has an unlockable bootloader, so in theory, one could run anything, but if no one cares...
All in all, I think both are worthwhile options, they just made different... compromises.
Just like e. g. the cheapest jet airliner isn't necessarily cheap...