I think parts blacklisting (i.e. you report a phone as stolen, all of its OEM parts are blacklisted) is good as an anti-theft measure and achieves the same functionality.
I can also understand parts pairing for Face ID for security, and maybe even the battery. I've had aftermarket battery repairs swell up, which is a safety risk.
But what Apple is doing is using this as a pretense to lock down repairs.
A lot of it is brand protection to be honest. I’ve seen so many cheap “refurbished” iPhones in the past with absolutely terrible cheap parts put in them. For end users this is most immediately apparent when the screens are 3rd party (terrible color, irregular backlighting etc) but these days it is a lot harder to use 3rd party parts.
I think there is an argument to be made that these protections preserve the used Apple market because people can actually trust it for the most part (we certainly see that reflected in the prices). I imagine the lifespan of an iPhone is much longer than a comparable (by footprint) android device.
I’m my mind right to repair trumps all these upsides but it isn’t as clean as it always seems imo.
Providing the user with more information is fine and not anti repair imo. If the user boots the phone and sees a bunch of non-genuine warnings, they can know to steer clear of buying the device.
The larger issue seems to be where there is calibration info that needs to be set up but only Apple has the software and tools for it.
> I've had aftermarket battery repairs swell up, which is a safety risk.
My friends at support had to deal with dozens of original Apple batteries that swelled up. And, contrary to what people may think, Apple doesn't consider a swollen battery a safety issue.[0] But, for certain models, they would replace it at no fee (although such support programs have ended IIRC).
They don't consider all swollen batteries to be safety issues. Clearly, what that page is referring to is that a specific product line was having batteries swell up for non-safety reasons. They still got replaced, but it makes sense if Apple knows the cause and it's not safety related.
Same applies to cameras, microphones, touchscreen, screen, buttons, or really any other sensor or chip etc that is powered and can therefore have a sneaky transmitter inserted. I don’t want someone (nsa cough) being able to sneak in their own module to follow my every whereabouts.
Yes please. Check every item for authenticity. That’s why I’m an Apple customer. I’d buy android if it weren’t the case.
NSA will order Apple to pair that part if they decide to swap it and you wouldn't be able to do anything about it.
If instead of VIN-locking they just notified you a differenr part was swapped out, you could go get some part from a trustworthy third party and replace that potentially back-doored part yourself.
As an electronic engineer I can't even begin to explain how difficult it would be electronically to include a "sneaky transmitter" in a single component
It's way more likely that the NSA would say "hey apple, install this backdoor in your software but don't tell anyone about it"
Imagining that a company that relies of US government for protection of it's IP and profits will protect you from US gobernment has to be the peak of naivite
I suppose the awkward part of blacklisting is that if a phone isn't immediately reported, someone may sell a stolen part to a repair business, which installs it, and then a week later the customers phone is locked down, through no fault of either the person who had their phone repaired or the repair shop
A repair business doing that wouldn't be in business for long though.
There are APIs available for verifying whether FindMy is disabled for the device in question, that might be a better proof that the device is honestly sold to a repair shop for parts.
For devices broken enough that they don't turn on there needs to be a way to remove them from FindMy without using the device though... is removing them from the list available at https://appleid.apple.com enough?
That's a situation where some kind of delay could handle it. They don't need to reuse those parts instantly. I doubt the fraction of people that report a theft after months have gone by is very big.
The customer then kicks up a fuss, the repairman realises that the part came from a stolen phone and the supplier of these parts is either reported or blacklisted by the repairman and every other repairman they know.
> I can also understand parts pairing for Face ID for security
Can someone elaborate on why parts pairing is needed for biometrics?
In my understanding the biometrics module can simply send raw "image" data to the CPU which then performs validation/authentication. Hardware authentication seems to be only necessary if one plans to send some precomputed data.
But I don't understand the very reason behind that. To save power you don't want to run biometrics recognition all the time anyway. If the recognition task is so computationally taxing that even the very powerful CPU present in smartphone cannot provide required hard real time guarantees and therefore an ASIC/FPGA/DSP is needed, well... Apple makes custom hardware anyway, so there is no apparent penalty in embedding biometrics accelerator right into the CPU anyway.
Biometrics need to be evaluated on a separate computer for security reasons. Sending them to the main CPU is a non-starter.
When you do this, the parts must be securely linked otherwise you can swap the biometric system with one that is already unlocked.
And, they want to ensure the Face ID dot projection and image captures come from a real camera and projector system, not some device that spoofs them. And in reverse, to prevent intercepting and capturing biometric data.
> I've had aftermarket battery repairs swell up, which is a safety risk.
I've had the original, built-in-from-factory battery of a Google Pixel phone swell up. Assuming that this only happens with third-party batteries is something laptop and smartphone manufacturers try to brainwash us into thinking. Buy your third-party battery from a reputable company (not a random seller on Alibaba) and the risk will be the same as buying one from the original device manufacturer.
"That dystopian future that science fiction authors warned us was coming, where DRM infected every part of our lives? We’re living in it. The result of these extensive limitations is a major infringement of ownership rights and amplification of the e-waste crisis."
"Unfortunately, software is the anchor around an otherwise exceptionally designed phone. But without the ability to swap components, repairability suffers dramatically. We don’t purchase products for our team that score below a five, so iFixit will not be purchasing the iPhone 15 for internal use."
Surely if the FaceID module provides a key to decrypt the encrypted contents of the phone, if you swap a module then another module might be able to verify a face but not provide the correct key, and the phone remains locked? If, before you remove the module, you wiped the phone then of course no key is required..
Having a module which could be removed and replaced just say Yes or No would seem to be a very poor design. Also in that case, Apple could presumably authorise a new module, meaning they would retain the capability to break into any phone (which I understood they did not want)
That wouldn’t prevent the case of “the module is swapped for one that unlocks no matter what, and upon noticing the phone isn’t unlocking, the owner resets and sets up Face ID again” right?
I was under the impression that it was all stored in the iPhone's secure element, which is part of the main processor? But they're paired cryptographically - to ensure the data isn't faked. And I would think there is some calibration data. Maybe that's wrong though - are there any docs you can link?
>Can’t swap it else anyone can unlock your phone with a swapped FaceID module.
I think some very highly paid engineer at Apple could figure out this simple solution. "If the FaceId, Fingerprint Reader is compromised you fallback to the password, there should always be a password/PIN for special cases".
Just in case those engineers could not coem up with such ideas , Apple(and others) you can use my idea for free, I will donate it to you for the environment sake.
even a simple charging cable (apple lightning) used to charge iphones etc have a chip, so your device can read cable capabilities when connected and configure it for: power, audio, video, data. there's a great DEF CON 30 presenhacktion on this [1].
as parts/ports are ever-increasingly multi-functional (and more advanced), there needs to be regulations in place to ensure no lockdowns, or preferential treatment. Of course we need hardened security and privacy, but I think Software should be used to detect & notify of atypical/dubious device parts so the User can chose/decide - akin to an AntiVirus.
If certain level of security/safety is required (say gov device, Chief Execs, VIPs etc) then create an Industry Standard and let the OS report on device's Compliance. This way, the market (users) brock low-quality/nefarious tech, not a corporate.
This is fine because anyone wanting a phone to call their mum, text their mates, take selfies, wake up with an alarm and get the football scores can buy a generic Android phone. It all works and the generic android phone can be replaced rather than repaired.
Nobody is forced to be in the Apple ecosystem, and, since when did we all need a supercomputer in our pocket?
Next we will be complaining about tyre prices on Bugattis. People can just buy a Ford.
Wont buy a new iPhone until this is fixed. I usually keep a backup unit for parts, never have I needed to have a 3rd party "help me" keep my production equipment running.
Readit News
I can also understand parts pairing for Face ID for security, and maybe even the battery. I've had aftermarket battery repairs swell up, which is a safety risk.
But what Apple is doing is using this as a pretense to lock down repairs.
I think there is an argument to be made that these protections preserve the used Apple market because people can actually trust it for the most part (we certainly see that reflected in the prices). I imagine the lifespan of an iPhone is much longer than a comparable (by footprint) android device.
I’m my mind right to repair trumps all these upsides but it isn’t as clean as it always seems imo.
The larger issue seems to be where there is calibration info that needs to be set up but only Apple has the software and tools for it.
My friends at support had to deal with dozens of original Apple batteries that swelled up. And, contrary to what people may think, Apple doesn't consider a swollen battery a safety issue.[0] But, for certain models, they would replace it at no fee (although such support programs have ended IIRC).
[0] See e.g. here: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251466658
Yes please. Check every item for authenticity. That’s why I’m an Apple customer. I’d buy android if it weren’t the case.
If instead of VIN-locking they just notified you a differenr part was swapped out, you could go get some part from a trustworthy third party and replace that potentially back-doored part yourself.
It's way more likely that the NSA would say "hey apple, install this backdoor in your software but don't tell anyone about it"
Protects your integrity of the hardware but gives you the choice to repair.
There are APIs available for verifying whether FindMy is disabled for the device in question, that might be a better proof that the device is honestly sold to a repair shop for parts.
For devices broken enough that they don't turn on there needs to be a way to remove them from FindMy without using the device though... is removing them from the list available at https://appleid.apple.com enough?
Can someone elaborate on why parts pairing is needed for biometrics?
In my understanding the biometrics module can simply send raw "image" data to the CPU which then performs validation/authentication. Hardware authentication seems to be only necessary if one plans to send some precomputed data.
But I don't understand the very reason behind that. To save power you don't want to run biometrics recognition all the time anyway. If the recognition task is so computationally taxing that even the very powerful CPU present in smartphone cannot provide required hard real time guarantees and therefore an ASIC/FPGA/DSP is needed, well... Apple makes custom hardware anyway, so there is no apparent penalty in embedding biometrics accelerator right into the CPU anyway.
When you do this, the parts must be securely linked otherwise you can swap the biometric system with one that is already unlocked.
And, they want to ensure the Face ID dot projection and image captures come from a real camera and projector system, not some device that spoofs them. And in reverse, to prevent intercepting and capturing biometric data.
Parts pairing seems like a good solution if theft for components is a major issue.
I've had the original, built-in-from-factory battery of a Google Pixel phone swell up. Assuming that this only happens with third-party batteries is something laptop and smartphone manufacturers try to brainwash us into thinking. Buy your third-party battery from a reputable company (not a random seller on Alibaba) and the risk will be the same as buying one from the original device manufacturer.
"Unfortunately, software is the anchor around an otherwise exceptionally designed phone. But without the ability to swap components, repairability suffers dramatically. We don’t purchase products for our team that score below a five, so iFixit will not be purchasing the iPhone 15 for internal use."
LiDAR not sure what’s happening.
Having a module which could be removed and replaced just say Yes or No would seem to be a very poor design. Also in that case, Apple could presumably authorise a new module, meaning they would retain the capability to break into any phone (which I understood they did not want)
https://support.apple.com/guide/security/secure-enclave-sec5...
https://support.apple.com/guide/security/face-id-and-touch-i...
https://support.apple.com/en-us/102381
I think some very highly paid engineer at Apple could figure out this simple solution. "If the FaceId, Fingerprint Reader is compromised you fallback to the password, there should always be a password/PIN for special cases".
Just in case those engineers could not coem up with such ideas , Apple(and others) you can use my idea for free, I will donate it to you for the environment sake.
as parts/ports are ever-increasingly multi-functional (and more advanced), there needs to be regulations in place to ensure no lockdowns, or preferential treatment. Of course we need hardened security and privacy, but I think Software should be used to detect & notify of atypical/dubious device parts so the User can chose/decide - akin to an AntiVirus.
If certain level of security/safety is required (say gov device, Chief Execs, VIPs etc) then create an Industry Standard and let the OS report on device's Compliance. This way, the market (users) brock low-quality/nefarious tech, not a corporate.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p_njRMqzrY
Nobody is forced to be in the Apple ecosystem, and, since when did we all need a supercomputer in our pocket?
Next we will be complaining about tyre prices on Bugattis. People can just buy a Ford.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37615238https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37614279
Dead Comment