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Posted by u/bottiger1 3 years ago
PSA: Don't base your business around Discord.7yr account banned for posting ASNs
There's been a trend of startups basing their entire business on Discord like Midjourney AI, and Discord themselves pushing for people to do so with their subscriptions system.

Well just a few days ago I found out that my account of 7 years was just banned without a warning for a very obvious error on their part. Just hours before my account was banned I posted a list of ASNs (basically ISPs) connected to a non-discord server I had that looked like this:

22773 ASN-CXA-ALL-CCI-22773-RDC, US

5432 PROXIMUS-ISP-AS, BE

577 BACOM, CA

To someone who doesn't know what ASNs are, they would probably assume they are addresses. This is not personal information, and there's no way to tie this information to any individual.

I opened a ticket and the only reply I get is that the ban will not be reversed and that the account will be deleted in 14 days. I've tried posting on Twitter and they have selectively ignored me while replying to everyone else. Any submission I make on the subreddit gets instantly deleted.

Screenshots for proof.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F49XZ4zaEAA_7mR?format=png&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F49XZ4zaEAErD3J?format=png&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F49XtAiaEAMmDdK?format=png&name=900x900

This also isn't the first issue we've had with Discord. They threatened to delete my server a few years ago because 1 person said they were underage amongst thousands of lines of chat and we did not see it and ban them. They refused to tell us who it was so I had to spend hours looking through chat to find the offending user.

Think twice before you decide to base your business around Discord.

ivanmontillam · 3 years ago
I've always been wary of adopting Discord, at all.

Every time I see a business inviting me to a Discord, I feel like I'm putting myself in a position to be mistreated either by the platform or by the company inviting me. I feel like they don't quite understand sound business principles like Platform Risk.

If keeping up the business afloat is your mission as a business owner, why'd you base your business off a platform you don't control? You might assume a Platform Risk, and be fully aware of it (and in the meantime, capture the capital to have your own platform or contract services from another platform less volatile), or you might not be aware of it at all, or if you're aware, you just play dumb and say "it won't be a problem, that happens to others, not to me".

I just get discouraged, I never end up joining these Discord communities and I don't buy the product/service the company is selling, I feel it distasteful.

In these SaaS days where providers can get away with not having a proper Support department or they are too big for you to go ahead and sue them face-to-face... why'd you put your neck on the line this way? It feels so needless.

gruez · 3 years ago
>Every time I see a business inviting me to a Discord, I feel like I'm putting myself in a position to be mistreated either by the platform or by the company inviting me. I feel like they don't quite understand sound business principles like Platform Risk.

>If keeping up the business afloat is your mission as a business owner, why'd you base your business off a platform you don't control? [...]

Why is discord any different than other platforms like office365 or AWS? Do you feel the same about companies using those platforms as well?

LapsangGuzzler · 3 years ago
AWS and Microsoft are very, very different from Discord. Discord originated in gaming and caters to a largely non-paid user base, that background alone is enough to be skeptical.

As terrible as AWS and Microsoft are as companies, at least they have an established reputation in B2B software. It’s an apples to apple-flavored candy comparison.

Root_Denied · 3 years ago
A business contract with AWS or O365 account carries a lot more legal weight, and they also have the support infrastructure to assist when an automated tool does something that needs to be assessed for reversal.

If something like this happened at AWS they'd nuke the services that were running and probably reach out to the account owner (if the automated service didn't do so as part of the nuke). The account owner's databases or Terraform scripts wouldn't be deleted by a set of EC2 instances being taken down.

AWS has its own problems but they do try and stay out of content moderation where possible through their "Shared Responsibility Model" (which also means they don't do things like backups for you).

DJHenk · 3 years ago
> Why is discord any different than other platforms like office365 or AWS? Do you feel the same about companies using those platforms as well?

The difference is that Microsoft and AWS don't take on an active role in moderating what happens between the company and its users.

But yes, in a way they are similar and I do feel uneasy each time we take on a dependency on some AWS-specific feature where we could easily have build the component to be independent.

No one else seems to care though. Even worse, the CEO wants us to dig deep into AWS, because that somehow will make the customers trust us more.

ThatPlayer · 3 years ago
I'd say the difference is I can make a full backup of my data on office365 or AWS. From office365, I can export my documents, my emails, my drive storage. AWS: I get full access to my databases, my files.

Even comparing Discord to Slack: Slack has export capabilities.

raverbashing · 3 years ago
> Why is discord any different than other platforms like office365 or AWS?

It is different. Really

Discord seems run by people with a vague understanding of security, attack vectors, let alone security best practices.

(or maybe they are heavily biased towards the gaming audience - but regardless)

rpgwaiter · 3 years ago
Not OP but yes absolutely. Run your own physical infra or fail
raincole · 3 years ago
There is no difference and people saying otherwise are just in denial.

Because their businesses/jobs are so tightly tied to AWS etc, they just tell themselves everything is fine. (What else can they do? Quit and be a full time open source developer?)

roguas · 3 years ago
Hm, when you are solo coder doing a product, discord is super valuable. You get to interface with your customers in casual way + you get a bit of free knowledge/quirks base. Also if something is wrong with cloud provider, I can broadcast easily etc. All those functions can be ramped up separately, but the goal for me is to code and deliver on a product. As everything it has tradeoffs, but I wouldn't make snap judgements that discord is just a lazy excuse. Its a great tool for comms with low friction.
Aerbil313 · 3 years ago
I hate how hackers and FOSS devs always try to make their “own” project. If there were a FOSS discord clone identical to discord, thousands would self-host it overnight.
gabereiser · 3 years ago
Do. Not. Launch. On Discord.

They are getting worse and worse towards their users. The “platform” was never designed for this, it’s painfully obvious. There’s no knowledge base, no support system, no sense of organization, no professionalism, just bots doing “stuff” as a product. Is FastAPI that hard? Is building a customer portal that difficult?

I guess I’m showing my age but I use discord for gaming and chatting with friends, not to balance my checkbook or pay my bills or assist my coding or design architectural diagrams. Occasionally it will help me make a pretty image that would otherwise take me weeks… Or help be brainstorm a sketch of a creature. However, the UX of discord is problematic towards anything other than a gaming community.

that_guy_iain · 3 years ago
> However, the UX of discord is problematic towards anything other than a gaming community.

Discord was built with a core target market and really they've nailed it. But I really have to wonder what a business is doing when they have their support chat or whatever on discord. I have no idea why someone thinks a chat platform that talks about school clubs, gaming groups, and art communities is the place to conduct business. To me, it's a bit of a red flag when a company chooses a tool that is clearly not designed for business and doesn't even try to pretend like it is when there are tons that are.

rcxdude · 3 years ago
I think it says a lot about the 'designed for business' apps that discord is doing well in competing with them despite not being designed for business. If Slack and Teams had any sense they would be taking notes from discord (Matrix is, which is good, but they are still lacking in implementation quality and the network effects are pretty killer)
VoodooJuJu · 3 years ago
So discord is something I use for voice-chatting and shitposting with friends, typically while also playing video games.

Can anyone tell me why they would ever use it for anything remotely serious? Can you tell me why you'd want to stake your livelihood on a walled garden designed for video game voice chat and sharing rickroll videos?

Not only that, I can't take seriously a business that uses discord. Like, what are you doing? Are you selling curated rickroll videos? God-tier cat memes? Do you do shitpost editing and enhancing? Like that what the fuck are you doing that your business needs to use discord, an app for vidya gaymen? It just gives me this puerile vibe, like this "hello fellow kids" kind of thing.

I'm genuinely curious what this app does for your business that seemingly couldn't be fulfilled by anything else.

atomicnumber3 · 3 years ago
Discord is a very featureful chat and voice app that is similar to slack in terms of managed-ness but they have completely different roots.

Slack is basically just business email but IMing instead of email, if you know what I mean. It's very business. Business happens there. Synergy and collaboration and so on.

Discord, meanwhile, grew out of some combination of gaming/tech IRC servers and gaming ventrilo and teamspeak servers. It's a completely different vibe and clientele that just happens to have a very similar feature set to slack.

So having a discord for anything that's gaming or programming/techy-adjacent makes a lot of sense and there's a big preexisting community there. I launched an OSRS plugin and we set up a discord channel for it. It was a niche thing, very niche, and we never really took it very far (it was sort of partly just an excuse to try out using managed k8s for the backend server that the plugin was a client for). We did 0 marketing aside from listing in the OSRS plugin marketplace and putting the discord link in the description.

Suddenly me and my pal had like 100+ people in our discord and as many users of our site. With 0 marketing and a very simple MVP.

And we didn't do any BI or anything but afaict the attach rate of discord joining to using our plugin at least once was very high, well over 50%. People even asked a few questions and said the project was cool.

So yeah. While I wouldn't literally run my business on it, as a "fan site" it's very useful and valuable.

CSMastermind · 3 years ago
> Discord, meanwhile, grew out of some combination of gaming/tech IRC servers

For the record this is exactly where Slack came from as well.

From Wikipedia:

> Slack originated as an internal communication tool used within Stewart Butterfield's company, Tiny Speck, during their work on the development of Glitch, an online game. These communication tools were initially built around the Internet Relay Chat (IRC) protocol and included scripts designed to automate and organize file exchanges among their development team.

> In August 2013, Slack was launched to the public and continued to maintain compatibility with IRC, reflecting its origin. Additionally, it was also compatible with XMPP messaging protocols.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slack_(software)

nurumaik · 3 years ago
Discord is slack that works, that's all
Cthulhu_ · 3 years ago
Midjourney is a great example: Discord offers a customer base of potentially hundreds of millions of individual people using it to generate and send images to one another.

You seem very dismissive of it, but what about businesses running on other chat platforms like Whatsapp, WeChat, QQ, etc?

Sure, it CAN be fulfilled by anything else, but is that where your customers are?

muzani · 3 years ago
Yeah, I wish some platforms would just die, and that includes Discord and WhatsApp. It's where the customers are for a reason. There's this naive mindset that says, "If you don't like it, don't use it," but this does not apply to communication channels. I'd rather everyone just go back to IRC, but we won't have that because of Discord.
mdwalters · 3 years ago
Not a "buisness," but the project I volunteer on used to bridge to Revolt, a FOSS clone of Discord. The Revolt server got raided, as my friend, who also worked with the project accidentally leaked the invite, which would lead to the server's deletion. Me and my friend asked the project leader and co-leader to re-bridge to Revolt, I don't even remember what their responses were. My other friend made a hobby project that bridges directly to the project's main product, and that became the de facto Revolt server. My friend then asked me to make a replacement for the bridge with the library I made (for Node.js/TypeScript), as it was faster and stays online longer (sending a websocket message to the server every 15 seconds - the same as the main client) than my other friend's (for Python - the project leader dropped a backwards-incompatible release in the websocket library, so my other friend was pretty screwed).

RIP, volunteer project's Revolt server, 2022 - 2022.

quickthrower2 · 3 years ago
Having a discord link probably sets some expectations about what to expect over there: chat, community, maybe voice chat, chilled vibe, temporary. All that from seeing the smiley joystick logo. It also signals cool modern startup. It may be be super convenient if your audience typically has an account already. Yes a tonne of downsides of course.
maxbond · 3 years ago
May I ask what the context of your message was? Presumably one of the people on that server reported you, and in the messages you posted, people seem taken aback (eg "did you just..."). I'm curious what the context was and why they took the impression it was unusual? What were these ASNs in relation to?
badwolf · 3 years ago
This piece seems to be missing for some unknown reason. What is the purpose of posting ASN and ISP physical addresses?
bottiger1 · 3 years ago
ISP physical addresses were not posted, only the ASN was. Look at the original post.

22773 ASN-CXA-ALL-CCI-22773-RDC, US

5432 PROXIMUS-ISP-AS, BE

577 BACOM, CA

This is the layout of what was posted. These are not even addresses.

bottiger1 · 3 years ago
It was to show that we had a lot of users in Asia, yet none of them were using our servers in Asia.

I find it kind of crazy that people here are doing all these mental gymnastics to justify Discord's behavior.

ISPs are not considered personal information. There is no reasonable way to de-anonymize it when there are thousands to millions of customers per ISP.

foresto · 3 years ago
I find the trend of businesses using Discord as their primary support/community platform troubling.

It not only makes Discord an unaccountable gatekeeper of business communications and data, as demonstrated here, but also unfairly forces customers to either accept Discord's terms and conditions (which are not what they signed up for) or be left behind as second-class citizens.

Good luck, bottiger1. I hope you get it resolved.

CapstanRoller · 3 years ago
>They threatened to delete my server

I really hate how Discord intentionally co-opted the word "server" in order to imply that one can somehow own or control a Discord account.

Discord Inc owns and controls all the servers. There's no such thing as "your Discord server", there are only accounts on Discord's SaaS platform, which they can restrict/censor/ban/nuke at any time for any reason.

It is not possible for individuals to self-host Discord.

ivanmontillam · 3 years ago
Yes, I hate it too. It's a similar situation with Instagram, where people talk about "visit my Instagram page" and it gets indirectly conflated with the word "website"; it's even worse if it's an e-commerce business, e.g. "visit my Instagram store".

Then the Instagram account gets killed because it's not intended to be used as an eBay, and these naïve business owners didn't know any better.

We are in these times where kids don't grasp the concept of "C:\" drive. They just save all files and don't know what a directory hierarchy is. They conceive Instagram as a web builder, much like Wix.

telios · 3 years ago
For reference, the terminology they use for their API is "guilds." But since most other services in the space used the term "servers" (e.g. TeamSpeak and Mumble, where they were actual distinct servers), I can see why the UI doesn't say guilds.
account42 · 3 years ago
Yes, I too can see why a dishonest corporation would knowingly use incorrect labels to mislead you about how their product compares to the competition. That doesn't excuse that behavior though, quite the opposite.
Ekaros · 3 years ago
I'm not sure if Verified & Partnered servers are treated different, but unless you have explicit contract with Discord their moderation can be rather flaky.

That should be understood reality if you use any third-party platform.

Also it is open to question was it this activity. Or something else. Or just being present or member of some server where something against ToS happened.

Macha · 3 years ago
Partnered servers are definitely not. There was a kneejerk moderation action taking in the past to ban the primary FFXIV server after a user posted some illegal content there, reported their own illegal content, and deleted the message afterwards so mods couldn't locate it. Considering where Discord came from, it was a surprising move to not even ask the operators of the server or share any information until they were facing user pitchforks.
bottiger1 · 3 years ago
I am quite confident that it was this activity. It is the only thing that fit this description:

"Your account maliciously shared or participated in the sharing of the personal or private information of another user."

It was also the only message of mine that was deleted in the past week.

galenmarchetti · 3 years ago
Is it a common practice for Discord to enter in contractual obligations with businesses that use Discord as a central support or distribution channel? I've never heard of this before and given what happened to OP it seems like this should be (a) common knowledge that you can do this and (b) a default option for businesses to consider, if Discord is indeed a big channel for your business.

We use Discord as a primary support and community channel and it never crossed our minds to make a contract with them, but now I'm thinking about it..