As someone who has been very interested in diet and health from many perspectives, be it general health and wellness when I was younger, competitive cycling and rowing, and more recently competitive bodybuilding, I have come to a tragically bland conclusion.
Every day it seems like there's a new study about a new food that will revolutionize XYZ. Meanwhile, most people don't sleep well, dont drink enough water, overindulge in alcohol, don't get enough excercise, and don't get much sunlight.
I think it should be everyone's primary focus to sleep well, drink water, get outside, get active, and eat generally decently. The huge cognitive and physical gains that would come from these basic activities far surpass any marginal benefit from optimization. I hate to say it, but if you're not eating a good amount of vegetables and fruit, decent protein, sleep, etc, no amount of mushrooms will catch up to that detriment.
Now if these fundementals are in place, findings like this are truly fascinating! I just see so many people put the cart before the horse far too often.
> Meanwhile, most people don't sleep well, dont drink enough water, overindulge in alcohol, don't get enough excercise, and don't get much sunlight.
A couple I know in their mid-60s were both diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. They were both sedentary, overweight and ate horribly. They embarked on an ambitious diet and exercise plan, have both lost a lot of weight and are both no longer diabetic. It truly is fantastic, and I'm happy for them.
One of them is convinced that people just don't know that they can beat type 2 diabetes; she wants to publish a book about what they've done. I keep trying to tell her it's not a lack of information, but a lack of will for most people, that she and her husband are very much outliers in that regard. Her publishing their method won't change things for hardly anyone.
I'm 59 years old and have been a moderate athlete my whole life; I keep my weight decent (not as low as I'd like but well under official obesity levels), eat pretty well, get enough sleep. I am having a medical procedure done tomorrow (that's completely unrelated to anything here), and the nurse who did intake for the hospital was shocked that I don't take any prescription medications. I call that a win.
I completely agree, but to add to this I also think it's an issue with information overload. Popular culture and pop science is all about quick fixes and crazy complicated "30 day transitions". It causes people to think that there are 3 types of people:
1) People who are naturally fit without effort.
2) People who have crazy gnarly diets and regiments.
3) Everyone else.
This causes them to give up as it seems like far too steep of a climb. It's incredibly sad because the basics of "eat a little less, a little cleaner, and go for a walk" would kickstart a revolutionary change in most people. If you're maintaining weight on 3500 calories, it doesn't take a ton of work to start losing a bit of weight, even if its at a slow rate. People just see the first step as insurmountable.
Not to mention the millions of fashion models and actors who take steroids then say they have a perfectly attainable physique and it was all hard work. Alas, that is a disucssion for another post.
I don't think it's a lack of will. It is more an environment that is overwhelming most peoples capacity of will, as well as simply just material circumstances that make all those changes even more difficult, or impossible. Inbetween working long times, low wages, unavailability of healthy food in a lot of places, car-centred culture, you will need absolutely crazy amounts of will power.
The solutions to these problems are not individual, but systemic.
It seems like that “lack of motivation” applies to many other medical conditions as well, and people like me who actually want to and have and will commit to the “hard fix” are confused about just how “incurable” something is, and whether something like surgery really is necessary.
Thoracic Outlet Syndrome for example can typically be cured with either months of exercise and stretching, and being cognizant of one’s posture throughout the day, OR a relatively simple and quick and minimally-invasive surgery. I get why most people opt for the surgery and probably even lie to themselves by saying surgery is the only pragmatic option.
I struggle so much with figuring out how to fit enough fruits and especially veggies into each day. Really fruit isn't an issue now that I think about it. It's nature's candy. Veggies, though I do love them, are harder to get enough of EVERY day.
As an athlete and lifter, do you think smoothies destroy a lot of the benefit of veggies? Say I want to make a smoothie each day that is packed with spinach and broccoli and carrots. I have to clearly pulverize the crap out of that to get it drinkable. I love the idea of that, because I can get a fair amount of veggies in a smoothie... But I've heard some say that doing this can destroy a lot of the nutrients from oxidation as you blend the veggies which is also pulling oxygen into the whirlpool created by blending. Not sure if that makes sense.
Aside from making a really veggie packed smoothie each day, I struggle with how to fit all the veggies into each days diet?
I do eat a good amount of oatmeal in general... Try to have some fruit and veg every day. Very little red meat. Any pointers you could offer in general are appreciated and I'm sure others here would appreciate the extra information as well!
I personally don’t really think it’s a problem to blend them. In general, it’s still far better than not getting enough in at all.
I think the important thing to think about is that not all vegetables are created equal. The nutrient profile of spinach versus lettuce isn’t even comparable for example. Then you have fibrous veggies like broccoli that can be great for digestion. So a diversity is amazing, making your core dark leafy greens and adding ancillary vegetables on top.
One hack is that spinach wilts down super nicely. If you’re ever behind in a day, olive oil, cup or two of spinach, and some garlic and you’ll have a very enjoyable way to cram nutrients.
The problem is that taking care of yourself to that extent is a massive undertaking that often completely exhausts your functional capacity irregardless of the benefit.
Remember that all of this research is done on mouse strains in highly controlled lab environments. Many of these results won’t even apply to other strains from what they were tested leave alone mice in the wild.
PS: strains means stable inbred clone producing animals.
Of the studies I've read, its my opinion that we actually have the knowledge to drastically expand lifespans, but because resources are finite and strained, the decision to use man made drugs to alter certain chemical reactions in the body which fix one problem but cause others, is what's limiting our lifespans, along with glyphosate added to the supply chain at different stages. If you cant afford to go organic, your lifespan and your kids lifespans and their number of offspring will be reduced.
You mean you found the person who approaches bold claims with an appropriate amount of skepticism in a world increasingly inundated with hyperbolic or even outright misleading headlines? And then goes the extra mile to share their findings and constructively communicate their concerns to others who might also be subjected to the same hyperbole?
You don't generally "take" lion's mane mushrooms, you just eat them. As they are tasty, and won't give you any trips, neither to the emergency room or to nirvana.
Edit: apparently this is a thing now, and this culinary treat is also a nootropic fad.
This ̶m̶u̶s̶h̶r̶o̶o̶m̶ ̶ fungi is easy enough to grow and cultivate yourself[2][3] - IF - you have time for such shenanigans. I did this last year through summer and autumn in my garage. I'm making no claims about effects or health benefits, but it is tasty and I managed to grow it on a number of substrates (including waste such as brown cardboard and coffee grounds).
If you're in the UK (as I am)and you see it wild, don't pick it though as Lions Mane / Bearded Tooth is a protected species[1].
Gourmet mushrooms are starting to filter into food chains in various locations through local independents who are very passionate and skilled about their cultivation practice[4].
Mycology is a fascinating hobby and plays very nice with woodworking as the waste from one activity feeds into the next on a small scale.
It's surprising more mushrooms aren't actively cultivated. One thing is the mycorrhizing kinds which are hard to farm, but there are plenty of types which just need the right substrate and some care. Lion's mane, which unfortunately doesn't grow in my country, is one, but there is also sulfur shelf a.k.a. chicken of the woods which I would have thought would be a great candidate for mass cultivation. Shaggy mane inkcaps have terrible shelf life, so I understand why those aren't cultivated, but it should also be fairly straightforward to do on a small scale.
If I had a few more days per week and few spare hundred K kicking around I'd be having a poke at some of this stuff as a small scale business.
I totally agree, it is surprising that fungi and mushrooms (the fruiting bodies of fungi) are not more widely cultivated - especially as use goes beyond food.
I'mn currently experimenting with hollowing out Fomes fomentarius [1] brackets(hoof fungus), polishing them up, flattening the backs and finishing them with hardwax. Not quite sure where this will go but I'd like to see if I could fit battery powered lights in them and use them as odd but quirky reading lights.
It's surprising more mushrooms aren't actively cultivated
I asked a mycologist acquaintance this at a party some time ago (several folks were talking about unusual recipe ingredients). He said it's just that most mushrooms don't travel well enough to be profitable enough for the grocery chains. But local mushroom growers seem to be showing up more and more at the famers markets at least around here, so we're getting more variety.
Chicken of the woods has an odd texture. Kind of gritty. So though it's abundant where we live, most mushroom hunters don't pick them. Cutting off and eating just the edge gives you a better texture than the entire mushroom.
I'd ask them why, I'm sure they can explain it. My initial thought is that when you powder fruiting bodies (mushrooms) the weight is effectively divided by 10 4oz (113g?) of dried powder probably has 40oz (1.3kg) of input. By the time you add in processing and packaging who knows what the cost is.
I know I looked at what you could realistically charge to restaurants in the UK and it was somewhere around £15 a kilo. This is why I'd prefer to eat the thing, rather than a product of the thing.
Ask them - see what they say. I'd be surprised if they didn't explain it.
You'd need to ask the woodland trust that question but I get the feeling it's because it is rare thing to see wild in the UK.
It could also to be something to do with the Plant Health Act 1967 which is aimed at stopping the spread of <insert thing you're trying to stop>. Inadvertently Introducing new fungal varieties into a woodland may cause damage to the woodland.
I don't know for certain though but probably down to a different take on policy approaches to ecology between our two countries.
I've seen them often sold at the weekend farmers' markets. Last I saw them was the Sunday Marylebone market (which is a small one so I assume they're more readily available at larger ones)
I'm in Newcastle / Northumberland but I dare say as you are in the capital you'd be able to find a suitable independent retailer somewhere. Newcastle has a place on Chilli Road and given the size of Newcastle compared to London, you'll be able to find somewhere.
I'd probably start with businesses that sell organic food. But you already probably knew that and so these words are futile. I offer them in good faith.
I did some looking around. I have no familiarity with this mushroom nor its medicinal uses. Some thoughts:
This mushroom has like 77 known compounds and this study looked at two of them (together, not individually). Western medicine often seeks to isolate "active ingredients" in order to be able to create monetizable drug products.
This may not be such a hot idea. My recollection is that malaria is increasingly resistant to synthetic quinine derivatives but is not developing resistance to actual quinine, an extract from the bark of a tree.
It may be more powerful but overly simplified. It's also problematic to study both compounds together if there are no prior studies on each individually. How do you know which does what?
Could adapting to quinine derivatives bridge a previously unbridgeable gap leading to quinine resistance? Everything seems to be a web or tied together. Could quinine resistance tip some balance resulting an explosion of malaria? </insomnia-thoughts>
You can eat all the cordyceps you want until global warming causes it to mutate to be able to survive human body temperatures. We’ve probably still got a few decades before then.
Lion’s Mane mushroom is a reasonably safe supplement if you want to experiment.
Be warned that it has a reputation for suppressing libido, reducing motivation, or inducing apathy in some people. Some people seem to like it, but it’s not really the miracle mushroom that all of the YouTube ads and podcasts are suggesting lately.
It works pretty well. Been talking it for years and there seems to be a small noticeable boost.
2 things: 1) the effects are gone if you stop taking it 2) you're going to have some weird dreams if you take it in the evening (ie take it in the morning)
Apart from that, I have not noticed any libido, motivation or aphathy side effects but that's a data point of 1. YMMV
Interesting. I have taken it for years as well. It’s one of only two supplements that I’ve ever noticed a very noticeable positive difference from (magnesium is the other, which for me has a very noticeable ability to help me sleep deeper, ie keeps me from waking at night).
I take lions mane most nights before bed. Haven’t noticed any weird dreams, nor the other effects around libido or motivation. I’ve been a chronic bad sleeper most of my life, and regularly would wake up feeling terribly in my head (headache, etc) after a subpar night of sleep. Lions mane has completely removed that feeling - my mind is clear in the morning and ready to go. Especially on nights when I go to bed extra late, I know if I take this stuff before bed I’ll be pretty good still in the morning.
Years ago I suggested some friends and family try it and nobody has had equally noticeable effects if any, so I no longer do. These things are just super individualized for whatever reason. Cool to hear some others here have benefitted too. I’m not sure if it’s the properties where it helps with inflammation or what it is that benefits me specifically. Would love to know. Also what side effects there are from long term use.
Yeah never affected libido for me or motivation. But I also take other supplements inc NMN, Creatine, BCD vits, Zinc, Magnesium, and sometimes Modafinil and eat a meat based diet.
Since all they have shown is that Lion's Mane stimulates ERK1 and ERK2, you would be just as well off taking Magnesium since that is the co-factor for the ERK1 and ERK2 enzymes.
L-DOPA (the active component in Mucuna Pruriens) is well known to cause degeneration when given clinically to Parkinson’s patients who actually need it.
L-DOPA becomes Dopamine, but given that the L-DOPA is distributed throughout your brain and body when you take it orally, the conversion happens in higher volumes in places in your brain where it’s not normally occurring. Dopamine metabolism produces toxic byproducts, so producing Dopamine in random places and having it break down isn’t good.
There are a lot of mostly harmless supplements out there. Mucuna Pruriens isn’t one of them.
Everything is correct except for the first one. Hydration is HEAVILY dependent on age. Younger bodies can hold on to way more water, and that decreases as we age. This is the primary reason why we get worse hangovers as we age.
Drink water while it makes you feel good, but for the love of God, do not force-hydrate yourself, especially if you are not 40.
If I was being a pedant (which I tacitly now am), I'd be tempted to add two things:
1 - mindfulness meditation. Building the ability of the mind to hold attention is arguably just as useful as training the muscles. Especially for longer term knowledge workers who "get a bit bored of this staring at the screen thing". Like me. This comment is evidence of my ability to procrastinate.
2 - eat wide and well. Up to the individual to decide what that translates into, but eating wide and well will give you all the range of macro and micro nutrients you'll need for optimum cognitive performance.
What's incorrect? You don't think sleep increases working memory and long term brain health? Exercise doesn't fix everything? Water isn't the best thing to drink? Don't dispute universal givens without strong evidence.
I took a few pills of "ORIVeDA Lion's Mane Extract Combination Fruiting Body and Mycelium 2-Pack" every day for a few weeks. According to Reddit it's a well reputed brand and supposed to be high quality. It was expensive. Anyway, I noticed zero effects, positive or otherwise.
Readit News
Every day it seems like there's a new study about a new food that will revolutionize XYZ. Meanwhile, most people don't sleep well, dont drink enough water, overindulge in alcohol, don't get enough excercise, and don't get much sunlight.
I think it should be everyone's primary focus to sleep well, drink water, get outside, get active, and eat generally decently. The huge cognitive and physical gains that would come from these basic activities far surpass any marginal benefit from optimization. I hate to say it, but if you're not eating a good amount of vegetables and fruit, decent protein, sleep, etc, no amount of mushrooms will catch up to that detriment.
Now if these fundementals are in place, findings like this are truly fascinating! I just see so many people put the cart before the horse far too often.
A couple I know in their mid-60s were both diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. They were both sedentary, overweight and ate horribly. They embarked on an ambitious diet and exercise plan, have both lost a lot of weight and are both no longer diabetic. It truly is fantastic, and I'm happy for them.
One of them is convinced that people just don't know that they can beat type 2 diabetes; she wants to publish a book about what they've done. I keep trying to tell her it's not a lack of information, but a lack of will for most people, that she and her husband are very much outliers in that regard. Her publishing their method won't change things for hardly anyone.
I'm 59 years old and have been a moderate athlete my whole life; I keep my weight decent (not as low as I'd like but well under official obesity levels), eat pretty well, get enough sleep. I am having a medical procedure done tomorrow (that's completely unrelated to anything here), and the nurse who did intake for the hospital was shocked that I don't take any prescription medications. I call that a win.
1) People who are naturally fit without effort. 2) People who have crazy gnarly diets and regiments. 3) Everyone else.
This causes them to give up as it seems like far too steep of a climb. It's incredibly sad because the basics of "eat a little less, a little cleaner, and go for a walk" would kickstart a revolutionary change in most people. If you're maintaining weight on 3500 calories, it doesn't take a ton of work to start losing a bit of weight, even if its at a slow rate. People just see the first step as insurmountable.
Not to mention the millions of fashion models and actors who take steroids then say they have a perfectly attainable physique and it was all hard work. Alas, that is a disucssion for another post.
P.S. Hope the procedure goes well!
Thoracic Outlet Syndrome for example can typically be cured with either months of exercise and stretching, and being cognizant of one’s posture throughout the day, OR a relatively simple and quick and minimally-invasive surgery. I get why most people opt for the surgery and probably even lie to themselves by saying surgery is the only pragmatic option.
As an athlete and lifter, do you think smoothies destroy a lot of the benefit of veggies? Say I want to make a smoothie each day that is packed with spinach and broccoli and carrots. I have to clearly pulverize the crap out of that to get it drinkable. I love the idea of that, because I can get a fair amount of veggies in a smoothie... But I've heard some say that doing this can destroy a lot of the nutrients from oxidation as you blend the veggies which is also pulling oxygen into the whirlpool created by blending. Not sure if that makes sense.
Aside from making a really veggie packed smoothie each day, I struggle with how to fit all the veggies into each days diet?
I do eat a good amount of oatmeal in general... Try to have some fruit and veg every day. Very little red meat. Any pointers you could offer in general are appreciated and I'm sure others here would appreciate the extra information as well!
I think the important thing to think about is that not all vegetables are created equal. The nutrient profile of spinach versus lettuce isn’t even comparable for example. Then you have fibrous veggies like broccoli that can be great for digestion. So a diversity is amazing, making your core dark leafy greens and adding ancillary vegetables on top.
One hack is that spinach wilts down super nicely. If you’re ever behind in a day, olive oil, cup or two of spinach, and some garlic and you’ll have a very enjoyable way to cram nutrients.
I am quite fond of kichdi, a dish with lentils, rice, vegetables all cooked together.
Chuck in all the vegetables, rice, bengal gram (2:1 rice to lentil) salt, spice and ghee. I just dump a ton of vegetables in the kichdi
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jnc.15767
PS: strains means stable inbred clone producing animals.
> ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
> This work was supported by … and CNG-Bio grant Funding to F.A.M.
> CONFLICT OF INTEREST STATEMENT
> This work was supported by the company CNG-Bio inc.
- https://cngbio.en.ec21.com
- https://cngbio.en.ec21.com/company_info.html
- they have a short gestation period and produce lots of young making it easy to breed them
- their opex is low
- they're easy and relatively safe to handle
- they're well understood
- there are numerous genetically engineered variants are available
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Hericium%20erinaceus&p...
Deleted Comment
Yep, found them.
Edit: apparently this is a thing now, and this culinary treat is also a nootropic fad.
If you're in the UK (as I am)and you see it wild, don't pick it though as Lions Mane / Bearded Tooth is a protected species[1].
Gourmet mushrooms are starting to filter into food chains in various locations through local independents who are very passionate and skilled about their cultivation practice[4].
Mycology is a fascinating hobby and plays very nice with woodworking as the waste from one activity feeds into the next on a small scale.
[1]: https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/fu... [2]: https://grocycle.com/growing-lions-mane/ [3]: https://fungiacademy.com/how-to-grow-lions-mane-mushrooms/ [4]: https://southwestmushrooms.com/en-gb
packaging - https://www.mycopack.co.uk/ furniture - https://plainmagazine.com/designer-researcher-come-sustainab...
If I had a few more days per week and few spare hundred K kicking around I'd be having a poke at some of this stuff as a small scale business.
I totally agree, it is surprising that fungi and mushrooms (the fruiting bodies of fungi) are not more widely cultivated - especially as use goes beyond food.
I'mn currently experimenting with hollowing out Fomes fomentarius [1] brackets(hoof fungus), polishing them up, flattening the backs and finishing them with hardwax. Not quite sure where this will go but I'd like to see if I could fit battery powered lights in them and use them as odd but quirky reading lights.
[1]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fomes_fomentarius_BW...
I asked a mycologist acquaintance this at a party some time ago (several folks were talking about unusual recipe ingredients). He said it's just that most mushrooms don't travel well enough to be profitable enough for the grocery chains. But local mushroom growers seem to be showing up more and more at the famers markets at least around here, so we're getting more variety.
https://southwestmushrooms.com/en-gb/products/mushroom-powde...
I know I looked at what you could realistically charge to restaurants in the UK and it was somewhere around £15 a kilo. This is why I'd prefer to eat the thing, rather than a product of the thing.
Ask them - see what they say. I'd be surprised if they didn't explain it.
It could also to be something to do with the Plant Health Act 1967 which is aimed at stopping the spread of <insert thing you're trying to stop>. Inadvertently Introducing new fungal varieties into a woodland may cause damage to the woodland.
I don't know for certain though but probably down to a different take on policy approaches to ecology between our two countries.
https://www.maesymush.co.uk/
I'd probably start with businesses that sell organic food. But you already probably knew that and so these words are futile. I offer them in good faith.
This mushroom has like 77 known compounds and this study looked at two of them (together, not individually). Western medicine often seeks to isolate "active ingredients" in order to be able to create monetizable drug products.
This may not be such a hot idea. My recollection is that malaria is increasingly resistant to synthetic quinine derivatives but is not developing resistance to actual quinine, an extract from the bark of a tree.
It may be more powerful but overly simplified. It's also problematic to study both compounds together if there are no prior studies on each individually. How do you know which does what?
Be warned that it has a reputation for suppressing libido, reducing motivation, or inducing apathy in some people. Some people seem to like it, but it’s not really the miracle mushroom that all of the YouTube ads and podcasts are suggesting lately.
2 things: 1) the effects are gone if you stop taking it 2) you're going to have some weird dreams if you take it in the evening (ie take it in the morning)
Apart from that, I have not noticed any libido, motivation or aphathy side effects but that's a data point of 1. YMMV
I take lions mane most nights before bed. Haven’t noticed any weird dreams, nor the other effects around libido or motivation. I’ve been a chronic bad sleeper most of my life, and regularly would wake up feeling terribly in my head (headache, etc) after a subpar night of sleep. Lions mane has completely removed that feeling - my mind is clear in the morning and ready to go. Especially on nights when I go to bed extra late, I know if I take this stuff before bed I’ll be pretty good still in the morning.
Years ago I suggested some friends and family try it and nobody has had equally noticeable effects if any, so I no longer do. These things are just super individualized for whatever reason. Cool to hear some others here have benefitted too. I’m not sure if it’s the properties where it helps with inflammation or what it is that benefits me specifically. Would love to know. Also what side effects there are from long term use.
How does it differ from racetams/uridine/huperzine in your experience, if you've tried any of those?
https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/P27361/entry
Cofactor Protein has 1 cofactor binding site: Mg2+
L-DOPA (the active component in Mucuna Pruriens) is well known to cause degeneration when given clinically to Parkinson’s patients who actually need it.
L-DOPA becomes Dopamine, but given that the L-DOPA is distributed throughout your brain and body when you take it orally, the conversion happens in higher volumes in places in your brain where it’s not normally occurring. Dopamine metabolism produces toxic byproducts, so producing Dopamine in random places and having it break down isn’t good.
There are a lot of mostly harmless supplements out there. Mucuna Pruriens isn’t one of them.
Drink as much water as you can. Breathe clean air. Walk. Get as much sleep as you can. Lift something heavy regularly.
Drink water while it makes you feel good, but for the love of God, do not force-hydrate yourself, especially if you are not 40.
https://www.thecut.com/2016/06/why-your-hangovers-just-keep-...
If I was being a pedant (which I tacitly now am), I'd be tempted to add two things:
1 - mindfulness meditation. Building the ability of the mind to hold attention is arguably just as useful as training the muscles. Especially for longer term knowledge workers who "get a bit bored of this staring at the screen thing". Like me. This comment is evidence of my ability to procrastinate.
2 - eat wide and well. Up to the individual to decide what that translates into, but eating wide and well will give you all the range of macro and micro nutrients you'll need for optimum cognitive performance.