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Posted by u/_bramses 3 years ago
Show HN: A highly opinionated, fully functional Obsidian vaultgithub.com/bramses/bramse...
A few months ago I noticed that I was quickly approaching my 10GB sync limit for my daily driver vault. I considered deprecating some of the heavier files and images, but I was worried how it would affect the integrity of my vault. Instead, I took the opportunity to think to myself -- what would the perfect vault look like?

I began to write down some of the key philosophies and strategies I use in my driver vault which led to indispensable plugins, which led to more indispensable philosophies and on and on it went.

I've chronicled these results into a fully working vault template that includes templates, dataviews, macros, scripts, and powerful but simple and intuitive structural elements.

This vault is truly a condensation of all of my knowledge pertaining to Obsidian (the README is very long), so please do give it a go! I promise you'll like what you see!

dumbmrblah · 3 years ago
Hypothesis: people who use these “second brain” knowledge systems spend more time writing about using them, then actually using them.

Disclaimer: I use obsidian myself

VoodooJuJu · 3 years ago
After using several of these "second brain" apps & systems and ultimately creating my own "second brain" app, I agree with this, and the general sentiment behind it. This space is just a rebranded subset of self-help. It's the productivity porn market. Roam Research was the first to realize the cash gains to be made in this space. Their marketing hook took off, they got their VC handout, and they haven't been heard from since.

People who use these things are fooling themselves. I used to fool myself. We're not really achieving or producing and we're certainly not "assimilating knowledge." What we're doing is procrastinating. We're wasting time. We're struggling at our current, real endeavors, and we turn to a scapegoat: "oh darn, it's my knowledge management system that needs work; oh, it's just my productivity system that's just not efficient enough". So we find a nice game, a tool game [1], to: (1) distract ourselves (2) give us the feeling of accomplishment - "I'm taking second brain notes in a fun new app - I'm learning!".

For me, the first step to actually getting things done wasn't to optimize my productivity workflow, it wasn't to find the perfect knowledge management app/system, it was to...get things done. When I became dissatisfied with my work, when I hit a difficult obstacle with my projects, I felt pain, and procrastinated to avoid that pain. There was no secret cure. I just needed to realize that playing with these tools and systems is not getting things done - it's just procrastination.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33135227

bityard · 3 years ago
It's been quite a while since I disagreed with something this intensely.

I built my own "digital notebook" and use it literally every single day for almost everything I do. When I'm in the middle of a project, I use it to take notes, write down questions, organize my thoughts, and save useful web links. It's hard for me to overstate how critical this to is to my day-to-day life. My notes ARE the thing I need most in order to "just get shit done."

Yes, there are "tool fetishists" in this space, just like you'll find in any career or hobby. They get their enjoyment out of tinkering with these apps and cataloging the hell out of their notes. I'm not one of those which is why my app has practically no curation abilities. But I also think it's in extremely bad taste to shame those who apparently enjoy it.

bachmeier · 3 years ago
> After using several of these "second brain" apps & systems and ultimately creating my own "second brain" app, I agree with this, and the general sentiment behind it. This space is just a rebranded subset of self-help. It's the productivity porn market. Roam Research was the first to realize the cash gains to be made in this space. Their marketing hook took off, they got their VC handout, and they haven't been heard from since.

Honestly, this is probably a good description of your situation, but certainly not everyone's. I use Obsidian every day and nothing you've written resonates with me. I dump things into the tool. I find those things when I need them. I'm much, much more productive as a result. Plus the sync is the best I've ever used. Works flawlessly every time on my Linux desktop, my Surface running Windows, my Chromebook, and my Android phone.

Maybe your work doesn't require these tools?

trhr · 3 years ago
I think I found the easiest solution to this. I only change my knowledge management system at the top of the year. Whatever I decide on for that year, I stick to it, whether I like it or hate it by June.

Some years I use filing cabinets. Some years I use OneNote. Some years I use Markdown. It all depends on the collection of tasks I expect to be doing.

At the end of the year, I make everything (worth saving) a PDF, no matter what system I used - because they're very utilitarian. Then I decide if I'm going to keep using the same system. For the last three years, I've used self-hosted GitLab exclusively, even for non-code stuff.

I doubt I'll adopt Obsidian next year, but if you don't already have a system, it's probably as good as any.

CrypticShift · 3 years ago
> (1) distract ourselves (2) give us the feeling of accomplishment

I agree. A lot of personal systems like this are indeed unconsciously used to (1) and (2). This is especially the case when you try to implement a very complex+generic one like this vault. I can guarantee 90-99% failure, albeit you may learn something along the way !

Also, it is not a "BRAIN". It is worth stressing that because It is a bad and misleading name (almost as bad as PKM)

But you are generalizing too much. The problem is the "just" in your "it's just procrastination."

The thread is pointing to many benefits. For ME, it is not even about productivity anymore. It is about "healthier" work environment (in research-intensive activities).

More than that, It is not even about "ME" anymore. It about creating better tools and systems in the long term. Obsession and Fooling-ourselves (at the "MICRO" level) is exactly what feeds that larger MACRO evolutionary dynamics.

> We're not really achieving or producing

Speaking of fooling-ourselves, I feel that getting things done itself (at any cost) is also sometimes just a way to distract ourselves and give us the feeling of accomplishment, and also to "avoid that pain" (all three you cited). We may also be fooling ourselves at occasions here too in our rush to “producing” and "“producing” stuff. just saying…

diffeomorphism · 3 years ago
That seems like a bit of an overreaction. Sure, tools are not magic and you should not use tools for the tools' sake but because they are useful.

Same with, say, ring binders: Having some is probably better than none, but if you have one hundred you have other problems.

Same for hammers, pans,.... Buying them won't magically teach you skills, but if you want to learn skills tools will help you.

stranger555 · 3 years ago
People should start using these apps as simple note-taking apps and extend/adapt them based on their needs, rather than diving head-first into these complicated methods/systems to form a "second brain".

If you go straight into OPs system you'll spend way more time trying to figure out how it works (and it might not even work for you) rather than getting actual work done

Start simple. Write a few notes. Maybe you need to draw things: add Excalidraw. Maybe some note structures are similar: consider Templater.

rarecoil · 3 years ago
> People should start using these apps as simple note-taking apps and extend/adapt them based on their needs

This. I'm a hardcore Obsidian user both at work and at home, and I started both vaults from absolutely nothing - no user scripts, no organisation, literally no plan at all. Since then, they've evolved and optimized in radically different ways. Taking someone else's "system" is just a way to fool yourself into thinking you can be more productive than you are; you have to find that for yourself and what works specifically for you.

My personal vault is geared much more toward organizing creativity, with a little bit of task-oriented stuff and technical documentation, while my corporate vault is heavily schedule based and contains mostly tactical information, meeting notes and thoughts, etc. For it to be a "second brain", you need it to model your brain - and I work very modally. I have a "work mode" and a "non-work mode" that order things pretty differently, and it shows in the hierarchies and organization of both vaults.

gala8y · 3 years ago
Exactly. At its core Obsidian and similar apps allow you to make notes, connect them easily _and search for them_ using GUI. That's it. That is how I try to explain what it does to someone interested. These modern apps are a huge step forward, if someone prefers emacs or vim/fzf - no problem.
deafpolygon · 3 years ago
This is the same advice any greybeard gives newcomers to Emacs. Just start small.
kaveet · 3 years ago
“Let structure emerge” is my rule of thumb any time I pitch Obsidian.
psychomugs · 3 years ago
This is the note-taking version of Gear Acquisition Syndrome (GAS) in practically any hobby, e.g. camera bodies and lenses for photography, instruments and software for music. After the initial honeymoon phase, you realize that achieving that idyllic lifestyle advertised by the new gear actually requires work instead of purchase or download. The only antidote is to actually start using the damn thing.
culi · 3 years ago
Nothing wrong with that imo. Lots of great skills are picked up from trying to organize thoughts like this.

Hypothesis: people who've obsessed over "knowledge gardens" tend to be great at sustaining documentation

seanosaur · 3 years ago
I've dubbed this "theoretical productivity"[1] and also fall into this trap. I keep thinking that just moving to a different app/system with X feature will make this 100x better for me. That goldilocks app/system doesn't exist and is always a moving target. Spending time on solving these problems mean I'm not thinking/writing/completing the things I really want to, hence the "theoretical" nature.

1: There's a good chance this is already a term with a different meaning. If that's the case I don't mean to rip it off, it's just what sounded good at the time.

Waterluvian · 3 years ago
I think I historically suffered from a form of this: I loooooved setting up for a project but didn’t really like doing the project. Whether it was downloading the resources and setting up a workspace for a code project or setting up a physical work area for some electronics work.
gala8y · 3 years ago
It is also simply called procrastination, bike shedding, yak shaving, fear of success, fear of failure, Forest of the Infinite [0], list goes on... depending on the context.

On the other side, as we are already using computers, we might sometimes want to explore and get lost in this forest of problems and possible solutions and have some fun.

After all, as Douglas Adams put it:

“(..) a nerd is a person who uses the telephone to talk to other people about telephones. And a computer nerd therefore is somebody who uses a computer in order to use a computer.”

[0] https://gameweld.medium.com/fractal-tasks-and-the-journey-th...

kitsunesoba · 3 years ago
I've really only dipped my toe into what Obsidian is capable of (very few plugins), but I took it up a month or two ago as a sort of minimal-resistance place to do simple but interlinked text mind dumps, and for that use case I've come to enjoy it more than I thought I would.

Thoughts that were dissipating into the ether now increasingly get written down there, which frees up mental bandwidth for other things, which has translated in increased motivation to actually do the things I'm writing about.

I'd tried doing similar things with Apple Notes and Bear in the past, but it never stuck very well and I didn't find myself revisiting notes too often. Something about Obsidian has worked better so for though and I'm not sure what it is.

That said, I could see easily getting lost in the weeds and "overmanaging".

Brajeshwar · 3 years ago
Hmmm! Please don't discourage them. I actually feel I should write a lot and just put it out. What I have learnt the most are from other people, comparing them, "stealing" from them and modifying them. There should be more opinions, and ideas.

I like it when people feel good about what they do, spend a few minutes each weekend and then in months or even years, they publish it. Or just publish as you go on. I also like "work-in-progress" in the wild.

nl · 3 years ago
I think there is an ultimate unproductive productivity local minima there somewhere. I suspect if someone kept a knowledge base of productivity hacks it would tend towards recursive collapse.
scambier · 3 years ago
That's definitely a bias. Lots of people use Obsidian or other solutions, and most of those people don't write about it.
ramblerman · 3 years ago
This happens a lot :)

- Look at the endless threads in /r/fitness discussing the 0.01% gain of getting the exact rep range right vs likely just going to the gym.

- you can browse /r/language for days and prepare yourself fully for the day you actually begin ... learning a language

It's a type of productivity illusion, I think there is just a greater overlap of this community with HN.

That being said, I highly recommend obsidian to anyone, it's a great place to journal, and capture ideas. But just start typing, and don't worry too much about organization (ironically this is the biggest benefit of the tool).

princevegeta89 · 3 years ago
I agree with you. I take a hell lot of notes and I still don't fully understand what the OP's post is really about. I don't understand the second brain philosophy at all.
thenoblesunfish · 3 years ago
I disagree in terms of my own actual usage, after the initial excitement, but that is a real danger. That said, the most beneficial usage of my notes system has been the flat "tech notes" directory of tagged files on how to do various twiddly computer things (steps and commands to "get X to work"). I used Obsidian briefly but find abandoned it for just the markdown, vim, and a helper python script to search tags.
jimmySixDOF · 3 years ago
Thats funny to me because my main gripe with Obsidian et al is this Reductio ad absurdum down to unformatted text as the central organizing principle of modern knowledge. Rich text, screenshots, video snips, audio, etc are shoehorned in and don't quite fit. Give me a better organized system of Infinate canvases of whatever I want to throw in there over a souped up html file any day.
EliasWatson · 3 years ago
I disagree personally, but I don't use Obsidian like most people. The majority of my notes just have a couple sentences. I mainly make notes about new project ideas, cool things I find online (eg. a note for each new programming language I discover), and cheatsheets (eg. a bash scripting cheatsheet).

I probably spend 15 minutes total writing in Obsidian each week. I'm not writing down things that I don't have difficulty remembering or things that are very easy to search for online. Obsidian is a place for me to store info that I might want later but would have difficulty finding/remembering again.

sureglymop · 3 years ago
I am inclined to agree. I have switched to simple journaling, and so far it's been better. Basically I just journal every day with one file for every day, no branching out into other files. Then I have a "timeline view" which let's me quickly see what I journaled in the past. This helps me focus on actually writing something down instead of thinking about naming things etc. So far it's great. And I can still use ripgrep to find all notes/occurrences with e.g. some specific word quickly.
afarviral · 3 years ago
It's almost the Noguchi filing system, in a way. Since you typically need to access things closer to the top/front which will be the most recent.
badrabbit · 3 years ago
I use it, I don't write stuff outside hn comments lol. Obsidian is very cool, like onenote but more siliconvalley-ish and smarter.

I hate that I needed to install flatpack for it but that is literally my only complaint. Sadly, it can't replace a text/code editor lime sublime which is where I dumped a lot of non-note knowledge. If only sublimetext copied some of this stuff for markdown.

In school,I never, ever took notes unless threatened. I mention that to show you how even someone like me liked Obsidian.

ParetoOptimal · 3 years ago
> people who use these “second brain” knowledge systems spend more time writing about using them, then actually using them.

All people is far too strong of a claim I think, though if you'd said (or in fact mean) many I might agree.

Is systems attract people who feel they need a better system surprising though? Or is it surprising we hear most from those who go on to spend much of their time talking about systems?

I think there are many who have and use a second brain effectively, but perhaps most don't know that term.

j7ake · 3 years ago
Apple notes is good enough for me. Can Obsidian users defend why not simply use Apple notes ? Learning curve and friction way lower
steveklabnik · 3 years ago
I don't use a Mac, so Apple Notes is not available to me.
1123581321 · 3 years ago
Some people are several times better at configuring these things in the same amount of time.
Spooky23 · 3 years ago
Anyone organized enough to leverage such a system doesn’t need it!
tantalor · 3 years ago
This was really fun to read without know what "obsidian" is and I can happily report that by the time I got to the end I still had no idea what it is.

A ha, found it on another website:

> Obsidian is a Markdown-based note-taking and knowledge base app.

https://help.obsidian.md/How+to/Format+your+notes

JoachimS · 3 years ago
I created a PR to add a note similar to that, and a link to the Obsidian web page.
astrange · 3 years ago
I thought it was going to be about Fallout New Vegas.
Temporary_31337 · 3 years ago
I was a little disappointed, as I thought it would be instructions on how to make actual, physical vault from obsidian. I made a knife from obsidian. It’s brittle but very sharp. I only really use it to open envelopes.
DaniDaniel5005 · 3 years ago
I thought it was a new Minecraft block ;)
romwell · 3 years ago
Obsidian is a TiddlyWiki[1] alternative ;)

While TiddlyWiki is both a Wiki and a personal knowledge database, I am also using it as a basis for my personal website about ADHD[2].

[1]https://tiddlywiki.com/

[2]https://romankogan.net/adhd/

MikusR · 3 years ago
Main feature of Obsidian is that unlike TidlyWiki it can save.
Mizza · 3 years ago
This is wild. I use Obsidian.. as a bunch of folders with text notes. The simplicity of the system is what works for me. But awesome to see somebody take the exact opposite approach.
breadchris · 3 years ago
i used to try to create obsidian workflows, but i found them very challenging to keep up. i used to think i wanted configuration for my note taking so I could capture all the ways I wanted to interact with the information i stored. Even though i initially rejected it, i have ended up embracing logseq and it’s seemingly odd way of working. I have grown to love the daily journal being front and center as I find it removes mental overhead when it comes to figuring out what to take notes about. I just put everything in there! I don’t think, i just take notes. When i store information, i write some contextual information to help me retrieve it the next time i look for it. When i search and can’t find it right away, i add more context to the note to help me find it faster next time. I think it works for me because i don’t like the pressure of writing a structured note, but when I do take the time to write, it’s because i am excited about it and I end up streaming my consciousness in an almost blog like post (as I am doing now, i love writing about note taking). I work at an OSS company so fortunately all my notes I publish online: https://breadchris.com and i find it so freaking liberating to be able to share my haphazard ideas with others lol.

having spent a decent amount of time looking at this stuff, my biggest recommendation is to try things out for a bit, and find habits that stick. I found a way to make note taking addicting, and other people i’ve got on the band wagon have found it addicting as well so I think logseq is a worthwhile thing to try out. I haven’t put it together yet, but I would like to put together the workflow (more like a mindset, less workflow) that I follow.

Good luck to those looking for a way that works for them for taking notes! I would love to hear about what people have tried, I have a lot of ideas to share.

teedeepee · 3 years ago
Tried your website on Chrome 108.0.5359.125 (Win 64-bit), and it displayed nothing but a teal background, until I turned off the Decentraleyes 2.0.17 extension (which was reporting and blocking 542 locally-injected resources). FYI.
un1crom · 3 years ago
life well lived is a series of personal obsessions shared without expectation of an audience.

well done.

may an audience manifest around your knowledge of knowledge.

Brajeshwar · 3 years ago
Yes, I love this. I have started to just share openly and since the last few years, I have even removed all comments, analytics, social-shits from most of my websites. I just don't worry about what others think. However, some people went out of their ways to find how to contact and there is always that trickle of emails thanking, or in most cases offering to sell something. :-)

Let's help and propagate more of this idea -- share your personal obsessions -- I might just get inspired.

nullandvoid · 3 years ago
I saved this quote, thanks (couldn't find an original reference as someone else notes). This resonated pretty well with the hours I've put into side projects, and the philosophy I try to maintain to keep moving forward.
darkteflon · 3 years ago
> life well lived is a series of personal obsessions shared without expectation of an audience

I like that. Is that a quote or original?

xcambar · 3 years ago
I really like seeing how others use Obsidian. As an Obsidian user and a (neo)vim user, I think there's a lot of overlap in why you should invest just-enough-time to make it work for you.

Disclaimer: after 10+ years of vim and too much time customizing it, I ended up with LunarVim an I'm very happy with it.

mmastrac · 3 years ago
TIL: https://github.com/IdreesInc/Waypoint

I feel like there's a huge amount I don't know about Obsidian after reading just a few files in this repo.

Scandiravian · 3 years ago
One thing I miss after switching from macos to Linux is Alfred. It seems like this setup eliminates a ton of friction, but it might be difficult to replicate when using Android + Linux

I'm obviously still going to try because this looks amazing. Great work!