I've used it, it's fine I guess, nothing super outstanding. I don't want to be that guy on HN, but the way they market themselves as being some revolution in browsing while simply wrapping Chrome like others like Vivaldi (which also has a lot of customization), Edge, Opera etc is not that interesting. It's even less so when I would lose adblocking due to Manifest v3 because, really, how long will these browser makers continue keeping a fork around before eventually giving up?
A true browser revolution would be something written from scratch like the recent SerenityOS one. Of course, the average person won't use it, but that's what it would take to truly be revolutionary. In the meantime I'll continue using Firefox.
A browser revolution isn’t gonna come from remaking an engine to do exactly what Chromium does. Ie render websites.
If they brought some new ideas to it, then maybe. But it’s likely that if a new browser engine did bring some useful new ideas it would be incorporated into chromium well before the other browser engine could achieve a fraction of Chromium’s market share.
Browser revolutions will most likely be built on the front end. By focusing resources on the parts where the browser makers can actually differentiate and not on the part that by definition must have the same output.
I envision a browser inspired by the likes of foobar2k in which core engines are open source and interchangeable, and any browsing experience is achievable through a rich plugin and layout system. The browser itself would be little more than scaffolding and an SDK.
Isn't this what XUL was? Admitedly I'm aware its arch was too complex to compete with Chromium's speed and security features, but way before Electron, I was using desktop apps built with XUL like Songbird for my music app, as well as a Twitter client whose name I can't recall now (of course, Thunderbird as well). Maybe they threw the baby out with the bath water a little bit by electing to concede to WebExtensions API since now Electron (read: Chromium) is filling exactly the niche that XUL provided.
I can see Arc somewhat doing this with their "boosts" feature. I imagine they will eventually have something like a marketplace for these, e.g. youtube/twitter without the distracting sidebars.
But to your point the core browsing experience would remain the same. Would be cool if they opened that up to variability though.
From where I sit, browser engines are commodities. There's not notable differentiation to be had there. Are four actively-developed, open source, mainstream browser engines enough? I think so, given that we haven't seen a downside to a relative monoculture in open source operating systems.
> Are four actively-developed, open source, mainstream browser engines enough? I think so, given that we haven't seen a downside to a relative monoculture
We have a near-monopoly with Chrome, a very distant second Safari, and a nearly non-existent Firefox. Anything else (like Goanna or Flow) have literally zero impact.
Chrome's outsized influence is such that it no longer even pretends to care about consensus or processes at w3c and just ships random features at neck-breaking speed.
> It's even less so when I would lose adblocking due to Manifest v3
You don't lose adblocking with MV3. I have been using uBlock Origin Lite since it came out and I have not noticed any difference in actual blocking. I like having adblock extension that has significantly less security or privacy exposure, and I like MV3 provides that.
I absolutely love Arc. The way I used chrome was I had a separate window with tabs for relevant workflows instead of one tab with 30 windows. I'd always lose where the tab was and just open a new tab basically until my computer required a reboot. With Arc I have 5 spaces each with the 10 most used tabs pinned. I now have 3 windows, Arc + Slack + Zoom. I know where everything is...
This, 100%. Arc's best feature is eliminating window management if you're the type who keeps a tree of research open, and the command bar means you get to any point in the graph without having to remember 'where did I put that'? Easel and notes behavior is the cherry on top for keeping thoughts together with those branches. It's a much, much more useful superset of behavior that obsoletes bookmarks and multiple windows with various tabs.
But admittedly, this is a very power user feature set that makes it alluring to me, I would expect most people won't find those useful, and tab hoarders in particular will be VERY confused and frustrated when the archive feature vacuums up all the tabs they didn't pin in a space 12 hours after they last looked at it (the default, which can be extended but not disabled).
If you're not that high sprawl but organized type though, and are on macOS, I'd recommend Orion browser[0] if you still want a non-ugly and native vertical tab bar implementation with your browser that also supports webRequest API and is both fast and better with energy use since it uses WebKit. They also have a public bug tracker [1] and a responsive discord.
1. You may find interesting https://beamapp.co/. Browser + hypertext note-taking tool (webkit based)
2. I was first engineer at https://meetsidekick.com you may find it interesting too. (as engineer with 14 years of experience in this area ready tell you about best way to architect js app in isolated environments like main/render process of electron, background/view pages in chrome extensions)
3. > I am a big fan of relatively-small websites, personal blogs, and any website that is free of the usual bloat.
I'm indie/solo making linkkraft browser (to make a living from it). To let myself observe intensive web in a non-intensive way.
It could be useful for someone who make decisions (and money) from processing a lot of information from mass of tabs. (product managers, hr head hunters?)
Linkkraft visualizes your steps as tree and auto-makes html snapshot for your each step. So, you can pause your research confidently (or part of it to free CPU/memory) and restore full context even offline. (Ping me if this would make you effective)
On the other side of this, I've been using Arc for ~4 months now, and there are definitely quirks, but overall I've been quite happy with it.
One of the primary complaints in the post is password syncing, and I'm not sure that's a fair knock against Arc since it seems like OP would struggle to switch to any browser that's not Safari (and they say as much just generally in the conclusion).
> I use iCloud Keychain for passwords on all of my devices, and of course, my bookmarks are synced via Safari. So when I tried to use Arc, nothing was in sync.
My experience was much better since I use 1Password. The extension was a little clumsy at first, but I gave the feedback and things were improved in the next release and I haven't had any issues since. Really any third party password manager with a Chrome extension should work fine.
Arc is weird, it's a different way of thinking about a browser. I've personally enjoyed it, but I can totally see why others wouldn't. The tl;dr of the post is "if you just want Safari you'll be happier with Safari" and I think that's a totally fair assessment.
Got invited this summer and was a bit skeptic at first (been trying different browsers on and off for the last couple of years). I knew nothing about the browser and had no real expectations. I have to say I was a bit impressed by the onboarding, the UX, and the attention to detail. (Perhaps because I work in UX)
Thought I'd try it for a week before eventually switching back to Chrome because of some missing feature or functionality – in reality it has been the opposite. I dread using Chrome again, and whenever I'm forced to, it feels like going back in time, but not even in a nostalgic way. Just a sense of "this is what we used before?"
Anyway, I have 5 invites if anyone wants to try it out.
Giving all my passwords, bookmarks and possibly browser history and credit card information to a closed source browser from an unknown company sounds too risky for me. How do they even plan to make money?
The command palette is a feature I've been enjoying and wishing I could use in chrome on my work laptop. Another is using 'shift-cmd-c' to copy the current URL, small feature but one of my favorites!
I don't use easels because I'm afraid of the company folding and me losing all my notes/easels. I wish they had something like Obsidian's set-up where it auto-generates .md files in a folder.
I'll always welcome new browsers, even if they are just wrapped versions of Chromium. Another similar concept is https://sail.online/, they're doing the superhuman type onboarding but it's interesting, would describe it as a collaborative browser on a spatial canvas.
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A true browser revolution would be something written from scratch like the recent SerenityOS one. Of course, the average person won't use it, but that's what it would take to truly be revolutionary. In the meantime I'll continue using Firefox.
If they brought some new ideas to it, then maybe. But it’s likely that if a new browser engine did bring some useful new ideas it would be incorporated into chromium well before the other browser engine could achieve a fraction of Chromium’s market share.
Browser revolutions will most likely be built on the front end. By focusing resources on the parts where the browser makers can actually differentiate and not on the part that by definition must have the same output.
But to your point the core browsing experience would remain the same. Would be cool if they opened that up to variability though.
We have a near-monopoly with Chrome, a very distant second Safari, and a nearly non-existent Firefox. Anything else (like Goanna or Flow) have literally zero impact.
Chrome's outsized influence is such that it no longer even pretends to care about consensus or processes at w3c and just ships random features at neck-breaking speed.
You don't lose adblocking with MV3. I have been using uBlock Origin Lite since it came out and I have not noticed any difference in actual blocking. I like having adblock extension that has significantly less security or privacy exposure, and I like MV3 provides that.
May I ask why?
But admittedly, this is a very power user feature set that makes it alluring to me, I would expect most people won't find those useful, and tab hoarders in particular will be VERY confused and frustrated when the archive feature vacuums up all the tabs they didn't pin in a space 12 hours after they last looked at it (the default, which can be extended but not disabled).
If you're not that high sprawl but organized type though, and are on macOS, I'd recommend Orion browser[0] if you still want a non-ugly and native vertical tab bar implementation with your browser that also supports webRequest API and is both fast and better with energy use since it uses WebKit. They also have a public bug tracker [1] and a responsive discord.
[0]https://browser.kagi.com/
[1]https://orionfeedback.org/
The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33414565 - Oct 2022 (90 comments)
Arc Browser Company: Chrome and Safari face a new challenger - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31544988 - May 2022 (125 comments)
Others?
2. I was first engineer at https://meetsidekick.com you may find it interesting too. (as engineer with 14 years of experience in this area ready tell you about best way to architect js app in isolated environments like main/render process of electron, background/view pages in chrome extensions)
3. > I am a big fan of relatively-small websites, personal blogs, and any website that is free of the usual bloat. I'm indie/solo making linkkraft browser (to make a living from it). To let myself observe intensive web in a non-intensive way. It could be useful for someone who make decisions (and money) from processing a lot of information from mass of tabs. (product managers, hr head hunters?)
Linkkraft visualizes your steps as tree and auto-makes html snapshot for your each step. So, you can pause your research confidently (or part of it to free CPU/memory) and restore full context even offline. (Ping me if this would make you effective)
linkkraft tree vs chrome tabs https://arestov.github.io/linkkraft-notes/comparing/linkkraf...
offline snapshots for each step in twitter SPA https://arestov.github.io/linkkraft-notes/trails-tree-plus-o...
One of the primary complaints in the post is password syncing, and I'm not sure that's a fair knock against Arc since it seems like OP would struggle to switch to any browser that's not Safari (and they say as much just generally in the conclusion).
> I use iCloud Keychain for passwords on all of my devices, and of course, my bookmarks are synced via Safari. So when I tried to use Arc, nothing was in sync.
My experience was much better since I use 1Password. The extension was a little clumsy at first, but I gave the feedback and things were improved in the next release and I haven't had any issues since. Really any third party password manager with a Chrome extension should work fine.
Arc is weird, it's a different way of thinking about a browser. I've personally enjoyed it, but I can totally see why others wouldn't. The tl;dr of the post is "if you just want Safari you'll be happier with Safari" and I think that's a totally fair assessment.
Personally, I use 1Password for passwords & credit cards, and Raindrops.io for bookmarks, so jumping between browsers were fairly smooth for me.
Thought I'd try it for a week before eventually switching back to Chrome because of some missing feature or functionality – in reality it has been the opposite. I dread using Chrome again, and whenever I'm forced to, it feels like going back in time, but not even in a nostalgic way. Just a sense of "this is what we used before?"
Anyway, I have 5 invites if anyone wants to try it out.
https://arc.net/gift/1138fc8b
> Arc is currently free, and we'll always have some version of the product that is free. In the future, we'll charge for premium and team features.
Search engine kickbacks and clearly defined ads on the new tab/page links.
Deleted Comment
I don't use easels because I'm afraid of the company folding and me losing all my notes/easels. I wish they had something like Obsidian's set-up where it auto-generates .md files in a folder.
I'll always welcome new browsers, even if they are just wrapped versions of Chromium. Another similar concept is https://sail.online/, they're doing the superhuman type onboarding but it's interesting, would describe it as a collaborative browser on a spatial canvas.