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habibur · 3 years ago
I was like "Oh! the impossible".

Clicked, read, well -- it's about crypto trading.

Putting the word "crypto" in title might have been better.

posharma · 3 years ago
Thank you sir. I’m one of those who scans the comments first and boy did this habit serve me well this time! Skipped the whole article.
patoroco · 3 years ago
+1 here. Thanks for saving our time :)
stingraycharles · 3 years ago
And in 2019, there were significantly more opportunities there as well. Over the last years I’ve seen more and more traditional investors enter the crypto trading market, so simple things like arbitrage aren’t real opportunities anymore nowadays.
once_inc · 3 years ago
This feels very much like a post that will be followed by a future post titled: "Lessons learned losing 200k in a flash crash". These sorts of systems and models often work until they don't. Often, there is a hidden risk that isn't hedged correctly - a black swan event not predicted by the model, or even just an exchange losing funds after a hack.
kqr · 3 years ago
I agree. A relatively easy way to earn a lot of money fast is to set up a system that allows you to lose even more money faster.
eldenring · 3 years ago
When market making its not really possible to lose 200k in a "black swan event" in regards to price movements. A software error on the other hand...
qeternity · 3 years ago
What?! Of course it’s possible
kqr · 3 years ago
> A common misconception is that the market cannot be predicted and that hedge fund managers are no better than dart-throwing monkeys. Many academic research papers back up this claim with data.

That's not exactly what the research says. It says that fund managers ask for more in fees than they earn you back in capital gains.

(Which is obvious: if they couldn't charge their customers more than they earn, they wouldn't offer their services in the first place -- they would just invest on their own.)

xboxnolifes · 3 years ago
> Which is obvious: if they couldn't charge their customers more than they earn, they wouldn't offer their services in the first place -- they would just invest on their own.

This isn't obviously true. Taking 1% yearly of $100,000,000 (compounding) from investors is better than earning 15% yearly on investing your own $1,000,000 (compounding). (Or some similar charging strategy).

kqr · 3 years ago
That is true, and indeed what happens with some passive index funds, for example.

However, from my experience, when looking for profits, people tend to prefer to arb inefficient markets before they choose to work on larger scales. So if one can choose between charging more than one provides, or charging "fairly" but at giant scales, the first step of the evolution will be the arbitrage.

dmurray · 3 years ago
And you probably shouldn't trust a hedge fund manager who doesn't have his own $1,000,000 tied up on the same fund, anyway.
silisili · 3 years ago
This isn't strictly true for all, though.

Imagine you knew, 100%, a 20% bounce coming. You may be able to scraggle together a few hundred thousand, maybe a million, and do OK.

Or you can find people with millions or billions in total assets, skim 5% or even 10% off the top, and make out like a bandit.

All of that said, on aggregate, you're probably right.

byecancer21 · 3 years ago
One way to think about this: as a founder you charge your seed investors, whose capital you deploy, say 85% (preferences notwithstanding). Why wouldn't you do it all on your own and retain 100%? Capital inflow is a multiplier for your efforts, sometimes a gatekeeper too.
idiocrat · 3 years ago
Two friends are passing through Vegas and need to stay overnight in a hotel.

At evening, one friend is tired and goes sleep, the other one has 100$ bill in the pocket and wants to try his luck.

He goes to a casino and puts 100$ on red and wins 1,000$. He then puts these 1,000$ on red and wins 100,000$. He puts again on red and wins 1,000,000$. Lastly, he puts all on red and loses all.

Later, when he is back to his hotel room, his other friend asks: "how was at the casino?"

To that he replies: "Oh, I just lost 100$".

century19 · 3 years ago
You don’t get 10/1 for red versus black!
kqr · 3 years ago
You might find someone willing to offer you 10:1 on getting simultaneous red on all of four wheels!
jbd28 · 3 years ago
The friend who found a bet with 42% implied probability that paid at the equivalent of 10% implied prob should just go back and try again because they’ll become extremely wealthy in a few more minutes time at that casino!
dudeinjapan · 3 years ago
Wait, tell me which casino this is! I'll put all my money on red!!
kqr · 3 years ago
> For example, in Advances in Financial Machine Learning, the author discusses how to pick sensible thresholds and transform the data to convert the regression into a classification problem.

This is interesting! Standard wisdom says that you get more statistical power from predicting a continuous variable as such, and then applying a threshold on the output, rather than trying to model the classification directly. Modeling the dichotomisation directly is equivalent to throwing a third of the data in the rubbish bin: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2972292/#__sec1...

peer2pay · 3 years ago
I always find it hard to trust articles like this. Call me cynical but in the opening paragraph the author clearly states that they make their money from other algorithms that lose money.

They therefore have a vested interest in filling the market with more such suboptimal algorithms that they can exploit for profit.

sigmoid10 · 3 years ago
Noone will share an algorithm that can consistently and predictably beat the market online. Ever. It would be stupid, because the moment it goes out it destroys its own possibilities for excess returns. And if an algorithm doesn't outperform the market, you're automatically better off just buying and holding. 100% of these articles are useless if you want to be serious about investing. You might as well go and put all your money on a casino table.
vgatherps · 3 years ago
While unlikely in this case, a few ways this can play out is:

1. You’re connected to more venues to your counterparty, and can hedge out profitably even if their trade was good.

2. The loss is conditional on trading with you (maybe you can price a derivative very well). The counter parties might on average make money, except when you’re sitting on the right side of a mispriced derivative.

3. You lose money when trading with other bots, but are good at competing to provide liquidity to other traders who are not toxic on a short term

vgatherps · 3 years ago
It’s interesting to see so many people here talking about how this can’t be real, probably lost later, etc.

The early crypto market was absolutely disgustingly inefficient and easy to succeed as a liquidity provider in. Simply understanding how to price a perpetual would have done much better for them than fancy ML trading.

plibither8 · 3 years ago
Previously discussed (914 points): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21647038