The Hans Zimmer interview is fascinating. However it was jarring to see him introduce one of the singers doing the rhythmic singing as something unique when it’s essentially the percussion singing that’s common in Indian classical music. I guess even the greats have their blind spots.
I went to watch the interview just because of this comment, thinking "of course it has to be more than just Indian singing," and it turns out it was a variation on that theme. Apparently it's called Konnakol. I've heard the style, but I wasn't familiar with the name until now.
As you said, though, everyone has blind spots. The world is vast, and there's a lot to miss. I have to wonder why the woman who did the singing never told Hans Zimmer what it was, or why he didn't ask, since the situation implies one of those two.
When I used to be an editor there would be a final sound pass done after me mostly for top quality music, dialogue tweaks, etc. A lot of my sound effects though ended up making it in the final product depending on the quality and how well they matched up. I very quickly found myself getting excited and randomly recording strange noises in public - that squeaky fan in the parking garage you might not normally notice might in fact be making some super unique mix of resonances that can be manipulated into something really cool!
I sometimes teach classes in how to make audio recordings for fiction. When I'm sure they know the basics, I'll usually challenge them to do something really different with the sound. Here's one assignment I often give them: Record a sentence. Reverse the sentence. Learn how to pronounce the sounds of the sentence as heard backwards. Then re-record the backwards sentence. Then flip it forward again. Now enjoy your David Lynch moment.
This makes me feel like there's a big opportunity for AI in sound design. Could we have a person provide inputs and goals and then have an AI come up with an infinitely evolving palette of sounds to be mixed and utilized towards those goals?
Potentially yeah. The problem is that it is not just about creating accurate sounds but also often something unique (but not unreasonably unique) or even something that has a subtle call back in peoples memories to something else. The latter would be very hard for an AI to accomplish. But what might be interesting is if a proficient Foley artist could take a unique sound they had recorded and then input that base sound into some kind of AI based software which would then spit out tons of different versions for them to listen to. I would imagine the Foley artist could still do a much better job for the final piece tweaking the sound themselves but it might provide a quick way to get some inspiration on how to edit the audio.
Many years ago I worked at a community TV station. One of the things we did was to add sound to footage where audio was missing or unusable.
Had great fun doing things like recording pulling sellotape fast, that bizzarely ends up sounding like breaking glass. Or maybe it just sounds enough like it when played against video of it, and your brain does the rest.
Interestingly enough, there is no mention in the article or no appearances in the movie, as far as I know, of the sounds dunes naturally make. Under certain conditions, dunes will actually sing or, more accurately, drone.
I have not read Dune, so I don’t know if Frank Herbert was aware of it or if it wasn’t discovered at that point, but if he didn’t know about it, I’m pretty sure he would have liked that a lot.
They went out into a desert to record this. I don't think they used these sounds in the movie, but they were heavily inspired by the real world phenomenon.
They also buried mics in the sand, to record what that would sound like.
Yes, I read the article. They recorded sounds they were making, such as walking, stepping on sand with Rice Krispies, and thumping the ground, but as far as I can tell, they did not record the sand singing, drumming, or droning on its own naturally, which it does.
Herbert was fascinated by desert and dune ecology. He would have loved this if he knew about it (maybe he did).
My favorite sound effect is in Monty Python movies whenever they have a knight in shining armor falling down the stairs. The sound effect is that of a galvanized garbage can filled with junk banging down a staircase. Makes me laugh every time.
I don't mean this in a derisive way, but was anyone else just a little disappointed by the Dune soundtrack? When I saw Hans Zimmer was working on it, I really expected him to get cut loose on this project. Instead we got pretty standard Hans Zimmer fare, some of which just sounded like him phoning it in. We're in the desert? Do the stereotypical Arabic singing sting! We're in a dark evil place? Cue the chanting (which wasn't anything interesting, either; just some people reading off the names of different Duniverse factions, nothing creative). Since Dune was (to me) always about this constant subversion of tropes, hearing Zimmer lean into these played-out sounds really sucked the air out of a movie I anticipated for a while, and a musician who I have great respect for. Maybe my expectations were unrealistic, though.
I completely disagree. I think it was pretty different compared to typical Zimmer soundtrack; it felt very alien and didn’t lean on an orchestra as much. For me, the soundtrack was an important part of why the movie was so engrossing in a theatre. Many of the people I know (subjectively) felt that the music was pretty unique and non-stereotypical. I mean, compare any of the top blockbusters and the soundtracks are all going to be pretty similar — Dune is an outlier, at least compared to that!
> We're in the desert? Do the stereotypical Arabic singing sting!
Well, Herbert did base Fremen culture, in part, on the desert-dwelling Bedouin and San People. The scenes were shot in Jordan (Wadi Rum) and Abu Dhabi (Liwa).
YouTuber Thomas Flight has an interesting video on the score (he's a fan):
I dunno, I think it was really spectacular. It's "standard Hans Zimmer" in the way that it's a bunch of new sounds no one has ever heard before - but they are also close enough to normal sounds and cinematic themes to be familiar. To me it's the mark of true skill. It sounds like something out of this world, but also something I'm already comfortable with.
I bet there's maybe 5 people on Earth who could score a movie like this and make it as credible as Hans did.
It was good. It did the job. The notion that Hans Zimmer is one of a handful of people that could score this much less anything is kind of ridiculous. I also disagree it sounded out of this world, it was comfortable though because it was obviously Zimmer.
> We're in the desert? Do the stereotypical Arabic singing sting!
It's interesting you say that because Hans Zimmer specifically said in an interview they tried their best to dodge the cliche' middle eastern musical tropes in this soundtrack. Perhaps they didn't go far enough for some people.
If you want to see the full scope of Hans' work for Dune I would suggest checking out 'The Dune Sketchbook'. It is Hans' uncut attempt at the soundtrack for the film, and it's very adventurous.
Eventually these music cues had to be edited and adapted for the final version of the film, so a certain amount of compromise was necessary, but this is your best look at the essence of what Hans is doing, and it's very exciting. I like it better than the final soundtrack, and it ruined my appreciation of the final film somewhat because I know what Hans was going for.
I'm not sure if we should be that surprised by middle eastern tones when we have terms like Butlerian Jihad[0] and Emperor Padishah[1] Shaddam[2] IV - infact, one of the things I like about Dune is this amalgamation of the east and west in names/terms in far far future - a future so distant that the religions we know now have mixed up and produced something very new but still relatable. Otherwise, if the focus was just to be as alien as possible, we could have characters made of entirely unknown matter speaking in an unknown medium - except they won't be as accessible. I think the trick is to make things as alien as possible without leaving humanity entirely behind, which I think Dune manages to do beautifully.
I could have been happier with the soundtrack, but I think most of that is on the director rather than Hans Zimmer. The Dune Sketchbook Soundtrack [1] was in my opinion quite good; I think the director just chose to avoid some of the really cool, but rather esoteric, music he had available.
Hans Zimmer explained parts of the writing process for one of the Dune tracks in a recent episode of Songexploder: https://songexploder.net/dune
I found it quite interesting and did not get the impression that he is just phoning it in, but it is difficult to judge from a short podcast of course.
Remember when Kubrik went into space and eschewed a traditional sci-fi soundtrack of theremins playing in locrian mode in favour of classical compositions by one Strauss or another? Science fiction movies, at least, were changed forever and in a good way. Ground was broken.
The Dune soundtrack evoked the middle east but leveraged cliches to do so. It was good music and an enjoyable listen but not ground breaking and if people associate wailing voices and heavy bass synth glissandos with desert scenes in future, it will only be because many movies have done that before Dune. Sticking to tried-and-true ups the grosses.
Agreed. I had very high expectations, but not unrealistic ones (i.e. I expected a memorable quality, but not the most memorable possible) that were not met. I actually now think Hans Zimmer was the wrong choice - they needed the Howard Shore of sci-fi, someone with experience but who was not a big name yet and needed to create something truly great to get there.
That's more or less with consistent with the movie being a solid 8/10 instead of anything better.
Hans Zimmer being involved is exactly why I was not looking forward to the soundtrack. He has really started to phone in these overly loud, overly dramatic, and overly gaudy soundtracks. It just drives me insane. He has no creativity and very obviously has teams of people just doing very stereotypical stuff that the masses seem to like. I love Villeneuve, but I can’t fathom why he likes working with Zimmer unless it’s a studio choice he has to go with.
i didn’t know it was him ahead of time but when i watched it on a flight a few weeks ago i pegged it as standard zimmer work. it was like blade runner 2049 and gladiator had a baby. quite derivative. enjoyable, but derivative.
Readit News
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93A1ryc-WW0
Interesting tidbit: a good number of the "bagpipe" sounds were not created with bagpipes.
The second is from wild life photograph Dani Connor, "My Squirrel Recording is in a movie: Interview with Mark Mangini, Oscar Winning Sound Designer":
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtfzjehDg74
A squirrel recording of hers was used to make the sound in the desert mouse (muad'dib) scene.
https://youtu.be/6WlI24rv__g
Not sure if a weird coincidence or just another influence in the mixing pot.
* https://youtu.be/93A1ryc-WW0?t=242
A concert by the Tuvan group Huun‐Huur‐Tu:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2ovoRyv4kw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp1r2vD79PA
It's more Kyrgyz style than Mongolian, and wasn't digitally edited too much.
As you said, though, everyone has blind spots. The world is vast, and there's a lot to miss. I have to wonder why the woman who did the singing never told Hans Zimmer what it was, or why he didn't ask, since the situation implies one of those two.
Ahh, it's Baby Pear! An unforgettably lovely sound indeed.
Had great fun doing things like recording pulling sellotape fast, that bizzarely ends up sounding like breaking glass. Or maybe it just sounds enough like it when played against video of it, and your brain does the rest.
https://youtu.be/4mbypyJjqhk
https://youtu.be/WWrb1iyCLlI
I have not read Dune, so I don’t know if Frank Herbert was aware of it or if it wasn’t discovered at that point, but if he didn’t know about it, I’m pretty sure he would have liked that a lot.
They also buried mics in the sand, to record what that would sound like.
Herbert was fascinated by desert and dune ecology. He would have loved this if he knew about it (maybe he did).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHFXG3r_0B8
One of the greatest comedic lines in film.
Well, Herbert did base Fremen culture, in part, on the desert-dwelling Bedouin and San People. The scenes were shot in Jordan (Wadi Rum) and Abu Dhabi (Liwa).
YouTuber Thomas Flight has an interesting video on the score (he's a fan):
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P50VrsM_xlU
Hans Zimmer himself on the topic:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93A1ryc-WW0
I bet there's maybe 5 people on Earth who could score a movie like this and make it as credible as Hans did.
It's interesting you say that because Hans Zimmer specifically said in an interview they tried their best to dodge the cliche' middle eastern musical tropes in this soundtrack. Perhaps they didn't go far enough for some people.
Eventually these music cues had to be edited and adapted for the final version of the film, so a certain amount of compromise was necessary, but this is your best look at the essence of what Hans is doing, and it's very exciting. I like it better than the final soundtrack, and it ruined my appreciation of the final film somewhat because I know what Hans was going for.
All in all, I still enjoy the final film.
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjJPjAkLXS8
(Okay, that was meant as a joke, but I do love the rest of the Dune 1984 soundtrack)
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padishah
[2]: based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_(name)
Deleted Comment
1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huC_e9EkN8U
I found it quite interesting and did not get the impression that he is just phoning it in, but it is difficult to judge from a short podcast of course.
The Dune soundtrack evoked the middle east but leveraged cliches to do so. It was good music and an enjoyable listen but not ground breaking and if people associate wailing voices and heavy bass synth glissandos with desert scenes in future, it will only be because many movies have done that before Dune. Sticking to tried-and-true ups the grosses.
That's more or less with consistent with the movie being a solid 8/10 instead of anything better.