The child benefit thing was a complete clusterfuck and racism was only part of it.
Basically the tax service decided some people were scamming the child daycare support system and turned on them. Any attempts to fight it from the parents were stonewalled and people were fined and got into massive debt and some even committed suicide. Most of them had done nothing wrong. The problem here is the Dutch tax system that has a "guilty unless proven innocent" setup.
Then when it was brought to attention by some politicians they were stonewalled and eventually even sidelined. The mainstream politicians kept turning their eyes away.
Eventually it did blow up in the media. The government fell. However the same people that turned a blind eye are now incumbent to government once again. The whistleblowers were rewarded with a snarky remark to "find a function elsewhere".
The racism here is bad but it's only the tip of the iceberg.
What you are leaving out is that this system was the reaction to a massive fraud before it.
The same politicians who were screaming for a thougher stance on fraud are the same one now asking why there was such a though stance (Omtzigt being a good example).
The fraud encompassed people from mainly eastern European countries (mainly Bulgaria, hence it is known as the "Bulgarenfraude" [1]) coming to the Netherlands, claiming (and getting) all kinds of benefits and then returning to their home country. By the time the tax service figured out they weren't entitled to the money they couldn't reclaim it because they were gone. It was basically a free money handout for them.
Also a good deal of the people who got caught bitten by the thougher stance did actually commit fraud. At least the shady agencies which handled the benefits for these people (which those people themselves chose). Examples of these shady practices included things such as artifically inflating costs by making up expenses.
EDIT: It is also interesting to note that the husband of the lawyer who got this ball rolling was the owner of such an agency. Numerious structural inconsistencies were found when this agency was investigated (structural falsification of hourly stats and so on)[2]. Basically what they did was telling people: "Does your kid sometimes stay at a familiy member? Well we think we found a way so you can get money for that" and then they handled the paper work and got a comission. That might have been the letter of the law but was definitly not the spirit of the law.
I didn't really leave it out, I just don't think it's relevant.
I don't think knowingly persecuting citizens (in bulk!) for something they did not commit is something that ever should happen. The tax service literally flagged people based on nothing and then pushed on without listening to any arguments from their side. This is not "tougher on fraud". This is just pure bullying to inflate "frauds caught" numbers, helped by the "guilty unless proven innocent" policy which is really unfair. Many of these innocent people are still waiting for compensation!
Of course there were some that did commit fraud. And the current privatised system is really prone to abuse anyway. With the old state-run system every healthcare was given 'in kind' and there was no need for financial reimbursements. They should take money loop out of the system again. Then there will be no more scope for abuse in this way. All these dodgy agencies only cropped up to take advantage of the privatised system. And in many cases parents were not aware of their dodgy nature - in any case those agencies should be the ones being prosecuted, not the parents.
But no real systemic changes were made. An apology to those affected, some promises for compensation they're still waiting on. And things are back as they always were.
I’m an immigrant to the Netherlands and have lived here for more than 10 years. I don’t recollect ever experiencing racism. At the same time, I think there are demographics in this country that are more likely to abuse the system or display behavior that make one a little more suspicious of them in principle.
That said, country profiling by the government, as much as it would probably be an effective dimension to detect fraud imo, shouldn’t be used by a government. The same way airport control shouldn’t profile people by appearance or any racial and gender characteristics.
I think the problem is that it’s only effective in the short term to profile like that. If you already consider someone guilty before they do anything, there’s very little stopping them from actually doing the thing for real (at least, I would have few moral qualms).
>At the same time, I think there are demographics in this country that are more likely to abuse the system or display behavior that make one a little more suspicious of them in principle.
I have zero intention to engage in a useless discussion but I am startled to still see a comment like that.
Yes, this is also exactly what they thought, and that's why they are called racist and got fined.
You don't use statistical data to become more suspicious of individuals due to their race and discriminate against.
> At the same time, I think there are demographics in this country that are more likely to abuse the system or display behavior that make one a little more suspicious of them in principle.
i want to gently point out, without implying intention, that this is, in it's self, a racist belief
I spent 6 months resident in Amsterdam and I have mixed feelings about Dutch attitudes to other races. On the whole it's a very low key, mind-your-own business culture but it has a small but vocal cohort of ultra-nationalists who are vocally opposed to Islamic faith symbols, people of colour, you-name-it.
I routinely heard Dutch neighbours discuss the concerns the non Dutch native working in childcare centres would mean their kids "didn't learn Dutch properly" or "didn't fit in" -dutch people can be very welcoming of visitors but they also form strong bonds early in childhood and hold on for life. Admitting foreigners into the inner circle, the more private space, isn't that common. (This may be an Amsterdam thing but I'm told over in Maastricht people are even more insular, yet Maastricht had a very gay tolerant local administration for years)
Some of this is just "speak Dutch and fit in" and If I lived in a state with so many expatriates who refuse to learn Dutch and rely on the states mandatory 65% pass mark in English to graduate highschool I too might carry resentment.
Some of this reflects the huge numbers of immigrants from former Dutch colonies in Indonesia and Surinam and a very odd mix of views about them, half pride, half embarrassment (at what was perpetrated on their culture) and all dutch: "at least they mostly speak Dutch even if I am racist about them"
Some of this is the general Dutch "fuck you" which goes on at all levels: try to use a 50 euro note.. fuck you. Try to order in a Cafe 45min before closing time.. fuck you. Try to call up to change your residency registration.. fuck you. It's OK, it's normal, they'd do it to each other too. You just ring back later, try next door, move on.
A lot of this is a reaction to a liberal refugee resettlement policy which caused some ghettoisation and drug gang problems (there was a shooting two doors down from my flat at a shisha lounge reflecting this and people list suburbs they think are "not dutch" or "not safe").
It's not new. The Dutch had nazi sympathisers as well as war resistors.
What's admirable is that the government appears to accept the fine. My own country (australia) has similar problems and is more likely to deny this kind of finding or refuse to pay it.
> On the whole it's a very low key, mind-your-own business culture but it has a small but vocal cohort of ultra-nationalists who are vocally opposed to Islamic faith symbols, people of colour, you-name-it.
If the shoe was on the other foot—and it was African or south Asian refugees moving to the Muslim countries these immigrants came from—it wouldn’t be a “small but vocal minority” of nationalists. The government would be moving them to a remote island, like Bangladesh is doing to the Rohingya: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/25/bangladesh-resumes.... They wouldn’t be allowed to teach kids—they’d be relegated to manual labor. In Saudi, for example, 90% of teachers in girl’s schools must be citizens, and it’s virtually impossible for non-Saudis to get citizenship.
The Dutch are just acting like normal people. It’s a small minority of people—mostly white Europeans—that actually seem to enjoy foreigners coming in and creating economic and cultural conflict and challenges.
Indeed. On a related note, I find the criticism of US leadership (often much older folks as leader usually are) being “too white” a bit odd when the US was almost 90% white up until the 1970’s.[1]. Which actually surprised me as I thought it was much lower.
So just assuming most leaders are 50+, just by probability you’d assume 80%+ would be white if they were educated in the 1980’s.
Obviously there is work to do in term of women leaders as well as African Americans who have been underrepresented, but it’s odd to expect the people running the country and businesses who were educated in 1980’s to reflect 2020 demographics.
Whilst not denying it, this is a very Dutch argument: yea, we're a bit shitty, but not as shitty as the other guy!
I loved my time in the Netherlands. I'd love to go back. But I think it's good to be eyes-wide-open about things. What I read about Denmark is not dissimilar: hugely tolerant as long as you put your dustbin out with the handle the right way round on the right day, at the right time. Otherwise, you're in for a fight.
Thank you! I don't understand why we're supposed to live in a democracy, except when it comes to mass immigration, on that topic you are not allowed to have an opinion because it makes you a straight up nazi. I live in Brussels and I can see first hand what mass immigration does to a city. Specifically immigration from outside of Europe, bringing in droves of people from a culture and religion which is simply incompatible with western values. The proof is that even 3rd or 4th generation immigrations still haven't integrated, let alone assimilated, most often living in ghettos with massive unemployment, high crime, drug dealing, where ideas and culture run rampant which can best be described as medieval (with respect to homosexuality, work ethics, religion, women, behavior in public, ...).
My own country has a VERY generous social security system, which combined with mass immigration for decades, and little to no effort spent on integration & assimilation, leads to destruction of society, total lack of support for politics and a general pessimistic view on the future.
Yeah, but there are two completely different circumstances. Europe dosent have to deal with the absolute cluster fuck mess colonialism was. They just took money and resources and moved on.
"Hey broken country do want another million people?"
If the shoe was on the other foot?
Gtfo your talking about highly corrupt administations propt up by western interests, that only providing aide for un-repayable loans. Look up what the IMF or World Bank has done and its failures.
Why do you think these people are refuguees?
They are usually running from their own country, they are running from situations from Muslim countries. How can you possibly extrapolate how billions of people would react?
You say muslims, most muslims are in Indonesia, Saudi is hardly representative of most Muslims.
Islam is far less organized or a pancea that you see it as. Muslim countries dont follow the spirit of any Islamic law, except when it suits their needs, Saudi is famous for this.
Its just too easy to paint broad strokes.
You mischaracterize the situation to fit your own narrative.
Can we finally state as a fact that Europe is only democratic and fair for its own citizens?
Makes sense people in this world are selfish, and self concerned. I get your prespective but your Dutch way of life isnt even close to being threatened.
Next time you hear in the news about how progressive and equal your country maybe you ahould add that aestrix, then maybe less people will come.
I didn't want to chime in because Dutch colonialism etc. but still....
There has to be a place in the global stage for whites/caucasians/etc. just as much as any other grouping. And it's OK for them to have their own culture and place. They are not the global majority in any way, either by culture or otherwise. Demanding that they assimilate to a foreign ideal is not going to work.
You might want to look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marichjhapi_massacre, although there are thoughts that it was because a lot of them voted for the [non-CPI(M)] RSP that was part of the Left Front in WB at the time but not the ruling party
Amsterdam is not reflective of Netherlands, that is saying like NYC or Las Vegas is reflective of the US.
"Non Dutch native working in childcare centres would mean their kids didn't learn Dutch properly". If those non-natives don't speak proper Dutch or with a heavy accent I could understand these parents, kids pick this up and it will influence their learning and future prospects negatively.
I am sorry you felt treated badly but that is not racist, a Dutch person would also get "fuck you" (rot op) if you ordered just for closing, especially because cafes close at 2am in Amsterdam.
You have to adapt to local culture, most people use debit cards and don't pay cash, especially not small items with large bills, if someone tries that, the bill is most likely a fake.
Calling to try to change resident registration?? If you could do that, anyone could easily commit fraud.
Some ghettoisation??? Yes, there are no-go areas, I lived there, try to get a taxi or uber at night going to the K buurt.
An enormous amount (like the average number of people living in a Dutch city) of non-western, low educated immigrants (>80% young men) are coming to Netherlands each year, there is no housing so the government is putting them into camps. This causes a lot of stress and criminality on the surrounding villages. Busses need to drive with police protection.
> If those non-natives don't speak proper Dutch or with a heavy accent I could understand these parents, kids pick this up and it will influence their learning and future prospects negatively.
It's more complex. Learning in your native language has a strong effect in your ability to learn. For very intelligent kids this is no problem and may be actually good, but the aggregate effect is that non native kids will lag behind. Also immigrant parents tend to have lower education and worse jobs, with more demanding schedules and less time and energy to monitor closely their children and this also has a strong effect. A few inmigrant children is no problem at all but if there is a huge percentage then the academic level will drop. This will transform into just another force pushing segregation that will feed back the whole cycle.
I don't feel particularly badly treated. Things like the fuck-you are peculiarly Dutch. The 50 euro note incident is comical because there are hundreds of ways to handle large notes, it's a problem the whole world has. It's not unique to the Dutch shop to find it annoying. The Dutch shop response is a bit more unique.
The restaurant thing I should have been clearer. It was a repeated experience I and others shared. Not 45min before closing time: 45min before kitchen closing time. If the staff just ignore you, until the kitchen closes they can close up faster.
The premis/registration things you also misunderstand me. The problem is that Dutch officialdom is incredibly complex. Many other expats told us of the experience I relate here, you ring to ask a question and get a bad answer, if you ring back 20 minutes later you get a good one. It's a notorious problem many expatriates get: there's one form, it's actually all 26 different forms stapled together and you have to find the one page which applies to you, in the set. The funny thing is that the south Amsterdam registration office even gives you a booklet whose opening phrases are "yes, we do paperwork very differently here. Expect to get a lot of this"
All cultures have their quirks. My Dutch friends and longterm resident non Dutch shrug, and accept these things.
The childcare thing is worrying. It has huge assumptions, like the premise they will learn bad Dutch. Really? So the Dutch grandma who lived in Jakarta All those years ago being raised by Indonesians... she learned bad Dutch? And, there's a reason immigrants work in childcare which needs to be seen too: if you want echte-dutch language and culture in childcare you have to pay better)
Australia is far from perfect. I'm not saying we do it better or the French do it better or anything. I'm just saying the Dutch have their quirks and institutional racism of a kind, is one of them. Along with a very new yorker fuck-you attitude. But maybe you're right, it's an Amsterdam thing. I'm told the south (maastricht) is very different and they certainly dress differently from what I saw. Somebody said it's like catholic protestant a bit too: old Dutch catholic money down south, old Dutch protestant money up north.
Outwardly, Europeans are very tolerant. However, their society is pretty homogeneous, especially outside of large metropolitan areas. In my opinion, a lot of their tolerance is lip service because its not really a problem they need to confront on a daily basis.
This is just an anecdote, but I was walking with a friend in Berlin and we went to get on the subway. A group of guys came up to us, pushed us out of the car and said "No Asians allowed." No one else on the car really cared.
But does it really need to be anything more than lip service? Who wants to give away their own stuff or sacrifice their own children's chance at life so that some random person can live? Is it fair to expect everyone to be the Biblical Jesus?
It may not immediately look like those things are happening in your life or the lives of people you know, but when you look at e.g. the US, you see people advocating for programs that given housing, education, and other financial aid ti immigrants but do nothing for the poor we already have here. It is difficult to accept, but it's likely best we leave those people to starve out of sight somewhere our conscience can bear it. There's lots of places in the world that begin starving at the slightest economic downturn -- this is probably an indication that that land can't support the number of people on it.
I've been thinking a lot about this. It seems to me that because many people in Europe have grown up in such homogeneous societies, there is a tendency to have blind spots when it comes to race. A recent example I can think of is how the Dutch justice minister said that if the Netherlands were a narco-state, then there would be someone with an exotic background in his place. I don't think he intended to be racist, I just think he didn't realise what he was saying had racist undertones.
I lived in Amsterdam for several years. My experience was that they were very open and friendly racists in a way that I just don't see in the US. Racists in the US are generally violent, raging assholes. In Holland people would literally want to talk to me in the grocery store about how it's cool that I managed to grow up into a seemingly reasonable person, despite being black.
Huh. My experience with US racists are they tend to hold stereotypes of minorities that are no longer politically correct, but otherwise treat people decently.
I see plenty of video of riots in Europe of aryans and skinheads that you don’t see in the US.
Soft bigotry of low expectations is definitely a thing in Americans who aren't violent, raging assholes. I would even argue that it underpins a certain part of the diversity effort - the one that wants racial quotas.
it's a typical new world vs old word sort of thing. In Germany its not much different. In terms of general tolerance, safety and so on most European countries are perfectly fine but if you brought a girlfriend or boyfriend to your parents who is black or muslim or 'foreign' in some way you might get weirder looks than in the US, say.
Japan is also like this. As a foreigner it's one of the safest and formally nicest places to be, but you will run into a lot of underhanded double standards.
The tax service paid special attention to immigrants for the day childcare support system because immigrants in average commit more fraud (1) on other areas. This was understandable, not meant to be racist but very wrong and illegal. Also they just clawed the money back and you have to proof that you were innocent and they did not look at the evidence. Tax service uses outdated computer systems which are not connected to local system. Politicians promised to solve it and never did (still not).
(1) Many commit fraud by accident because of language issues and complicated rules. Also there are a lot of traveling immigrants who make mis-use of the Dutch welfare state by applying child credits or unemployment benefits while abroad.
I don't think "fraud by accident" is possible. Fraud requires intent. Mistakes are just mistakes, and yeah you will have to pay back anything you shouldn't have received, and sometimes there are additional penalties, but fraud is something different.
Then again, maybe the Netherlands doesn't distinguish between the two.
How is the data "racist"? It doesn't utilise race at all. It uses citizenship information because tax authorities found that having a non-Dutch citizenship was a strong predictor of committing the fraud.
The fraud encompassed people from mainly eastern European countries (mainly Bulgaria, hence it is known as the "Bulgarenfraude"). Because the tax authorities only checked afterwards, the fraud was often only noticed when the fraudsters had already returned to Bulgaria [1]. The target of these checks have the same race as the Dutch (they are both mainly Caucasian), so it is weird to hear that the nationality check is "racist".
If you look at the press release of the Dutch Data Protection Authority [2] (the agency that imposed the fine), you can see it does not even mention race or racism. It says the fine is due to "serious violations of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), the law governing privacy" and for discrimination in "unnecessarily retaining nationality data in its systems".
I had to look that up because, if I had just read the headline, I would incorrectly believe there was racism involved. Why is this article inflaming racial resentment? Is it just trying to use clickbait to get views? Is it trying to push fake-news for an agenda?
Readit News
Basically the tax service decided some people were scamming the child daycare support system and turned on them. Any attempts to fight it from the parents were stonewalled and people were fined and got into massive debt and some even committed suicide. Most of them had done nothing wrong. The problem here is the Dutch tax system that has a "guilty unless proven innocent" setup.
Then when it was brought to attention by some politicians they were stonewalled and eventually even sidelined. The mainstream politicians kept turning their eyes away.
Eventually it did blow up in the media. The government fell. However the same people that turned a blind eye are now incumbent to government once again. The whistleblowers were rewarded with a snarky remark to "find a function elsewhere".
The racism here is bad but it's only the tip of the iceberg.
The same politicians who were screaming for a thougher stance on fraud are the same one now asking why there was such a though stance (Omtzigt being a good example).
The fraud encompassed people from mainly eastern European countries (mainly Bulgaria, hence it is known as the "Bulgarenfraude" [1]) coming to the Netherlands, claiming (and getting) all kinds of benefits and then returning to their home country. By the time the tax service figured out they weren't entitled to the money they couldn't reclaim it because they were gone. It was basically a free money handout for them.
Also a good deal of the people who got caught bitten by the thougher stance did actually commit fraud. At least the shady agencies which handled the benefits for these people (which those people themselves chose). Examples of these shady practices included things such as artifically inflating costs by making up expenses.
EDIT: It is also interesting to note that the husband of the lawyer who got this ball rolling was the owner of such an agency. Numerious structural inconsistencies were found when this agency was investigated (structural falsification of hourly stats and so on)[2]. Basically what they did was telling people: "Does your kid sometimes stay at a familiy member? Well we think we found a way so you can get money for that" and then they handled the paper work and got a comission. That might have been the letter of the law but was definitly not the spirit of the law.
[1] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarenfraude
[2] https://www.tweedekamer.nl/downloads/document?id=3be75800-fb...
I don't think knowingly persecuting citizens (in bulk!) for something they did not commit is something that ever should happen. The tax service literally flagged people based on nothing and then pushed on without listening to any arguments from their side. This is not "tougher on fraud". This is just pure bullying to inflate "frauds caught" numbers, helped by the "guilty unless proven innocent" policy which is really unfair. Many of these innocent people are still waiting for compensation!
Of course there were some that did commit fraud. And the current privatised system is really prone to abuse anyway. With the old state-run system every healthcare was given 'in kind' and there was no need for financial reimbursements. They should take money loop out of the system again. Then there will be no more scope for abuse in this way. All these dodgy agencies only cropped up to take advantage of the privatised system. And in many cases parents were not aware of their dodgy nature - in any case those agencies should be the ones being prosecuted, not the parents.
But no real systemic changes were made. An apology to those affected, some promises for compensation they're still waiting on. And things are back as they always were.
That said, country profiling by the government, as much as it would probably be an effective dimension to detect fraud imo, shouldn’t be used by a government. The same way airport control shouldn’t profile people by appearance or any racial and gender characteristics.
I have zero intention to engage in a useless discussion but I am startled to still see a comment like that.
Yes, this is also exactly what they thought, and that's why they are called racist and got fined.
You don't use statistical data to become more suspicious of individuals due to their race and discriminate against.
How hard to understand this.
i want to gently point out, without implying intention, that this is, in it's self, a racist belief
I routinely heard Dutch neighbours discuss the concerns the non Dutch native working in childcare centres would mean their kids "didn't learn Dutch properly" or "didn't fit in" -dutch people can be very welcoming of visitors but they also form strong bonds early in childhood and hold on for life. Admitting foreigners into the inner circle, the more private space, isn't that common. (This may be an Amsterdam thing but I'm told over in Maastricht people are even more insular, yet Maastricht had a very gay tolerant local administration for years)
Some of this is just "speak Dutch and fit in" and If I lived in a state with so many expatriates who refuse to learn Dutch and rely on the states mandatory 65% pass mark in English to graduate highschool I too might carry resentment.
Some of this reflects the huge numbers of immigrants from former Dutch colonies in Indonesia and Surinam and a very odd mix of views about them, half pride, half embarrassment (at what was perpetrated on their culture) and all dutch: "at least they mostly speak Dutch even if I am racist about them"
Some of this is the general Dutch "fuck you" which goes on at all levels: try to use a 50 euro note.. fuck you. Try to order in a Cafe 45min before closing time.. fuck you. Try to call up to change your residency registration.. fuck you. It's OK, it's normal, they'd do it to each other too. You just ring back later, try next door, move on.
A lot of this is a reaction to a liberal refugee resettlement policy which caused some ghettoisation and drug gang problems (there was a shooting two doors down from my flat at a shisha lounge reflecting this and people list suburbs they think are "not dutch" or "not safe").
It's not new. The Dutch had nazi sympathisers as well as war resistors.
What's admirable is that the government appears to accept the fine. My own country (australia) has similar problems and is more likely to deny this kind of finding or refuse to pay it.
If the shoe was on the other foot—and it was African or south Asian refugees moving to the Muslim countries these immigrants came from—it wouldn’t be a “small but vocal minority” of nationalists. The government would be moving them to a remote island, like Bangladesh is doing to the Rohingya: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/25/bangladesh-resumes.... They wouldn’t be allowed to teach kids—they’d be relegated to manual labor. In Saudi, for example, 90% of teachers in girl’s schools must be citizens, and it’s virtually impossible for non-Saudis to get citizenship.
The Dutch are just acting like normal people. It’s a small minority of people—mostly white Europeans—that actually seem to enjoy foreigners coming in and creating economic and cultural conflict and challenges.
So just assuming most leaders are 50+, just by probability you’d assume 80%+ would be white if they were educated in the 1980’s.
Obviously there is work to do in term of women leaders as well as African Americans who have been underrepresented, but it’s odd to expect the people running the country and businesses who were educated in 1980’s to reflect 2020 demographics.
[1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic...
I loved my time in the Netherlands. I'd love to go back. But I think it's good to be eyes-wide-open about things. What I read about Denmark is not dissimilar: hugely tolerant as long as you put your dustbin out with the handle the right way round on the right day, at the right time. Otherwise, you're in for a fight.
Oliebollen forever!
My own country has a VERY generous social security system, which combined with mass immigration for decades, and little to no effort spent on integration & assimilation, leads to destruction of society, total lack of support for politics and a general pessimistic view on the future.
"Hey broken country do want another million people?"
If the shoe was on the other foot? Gtfo your talking about highly corrupt administations propt up by western interests, that only providing aide for un-repayable loans. Look up what the IMF or World Bank has done and its failures.
Why do you think these people are refuguees?
They are usually running from their own country, they are running from situations from Muslim countries. How can you possibly extrapolate how billions of people would react?
You say muslims, most muslims are in Indonesia, Saudi is hardly representative of most Muslims.
Islam is far less organized or a pancea that you see it as. Muslim countries dont follow the spirit of any Islamic law, except when it suits their needs, Saudi is famous for this.
Its just too easy to paint broad strokes. You mischaracterize the situation to fit your own narrative.
Can we finally state as a fact that Europe is only democratic and fair for its own citizens?
Makes sense people in this world are selfish, and self concerned. I get your prespective but your Dutch way of life isnt even close to being threatened.
Next time you hear in the news about how progressive and equal your country maybe you ahould add that aestrix, then maybe less people will come.
“We have primitive instincts, medieval institutions, and God-like technology.” — EO Wilson
There has to be a place in the global stage for whites/caucasians/etc. just as much as any other grouping. And it's OK for them to have their own culture and place. They are not the global majority in any way, either by culture or otherwise. Demanding that they assimilate to a foreign ideal is not going to work.
You might want to look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marichjhapi_massacre, although there are thoughts that it was because a lot of them voted for the [non-CPI(M)] RSP that was part of the Left Front in WB at the time but not the ruling party
"Non Dutch native working in childcare centres would mean their kids didn't learn Dutch properly". If those non-natives don't speak proper Dutch or with a heavy accent I could understand these parents, kids pick this up and it will influence their learning and future prospects negatively.
I am sorry you felt treated badly but that is not racist, a Dutch person would also get "fuck you" (rot op) if you ordered just for closing, especially because cafes close at 2am in Amsterdam.
You have to adapt to local culture, most people use debit cards and don't pay cash, especially not small items with large bills, if someone tries that, the bill is most likely a fake.
Calling to try to change resident registration?? If you could do that, anyone could easily commit fraud.
Some ghettoisation??? Yes, there are no-go areas, I lived there, try to get a taxi or uber at night going to the K buurt.
An enormous amount (like the average number of people living in a Dutch city) of non-western, low educated immigrants (>80% young men) are coming to Netherlands each year, there is no housing so the government is putting them into camps. This causes a lot of stress and criminality on the surrounding villages. Busses need to drive with police protection.
It's more complex. Learning in your native language has a strong effect in your ability to learn. For very intelligent kids this is no problem and may be actually good, but the aggregate effect is that non native kids will lag behind. Also immigrant parents tend to have lower education and worse jobs, with more demanding schedules and less time and energy to monitor closely their children and this also has a strong effect. A few inmigrant children is no problem at all but if there is a huge percentage then the academic level will drop. This will transform into just another force pushing segregation that will feed back the whole cycle.
The restaurant thing I should have been clearer. It was a repeated experience I and others shared. Not 45min before closing time: 45min before kitchen closing time. If the staff just ignore you, until the kitchen closes they can close up faster.
The premis/registration things you also misunderstand me. The problem is that Dutch officialdom is incredibly complex. Many other expats told us of the experience I relate here, you ring to ask a question and get a bad answer, if you ring back 20 minutes later you get a good one. It's a notorious problem many expatriates get: there's one form, it's actually all 26 different forms stapled together and you have to find the one page which applies to you, in the set. The funny thing is that the south Amsterdam registration office even gives you a booklet whose opening phrases are "yes, we do paperwork very differently here. Expect to get a lot of this"
All cultures have their quirks. My Dutch friends and longterm resident non Dutch shrug, and accept these things.
The childcare thing is worrying. It has huge assumptions, like the premise they will learn bad Dutch. Really? So the Dutch grandma who lived in Jakarta All those years ago being raised by Indonesians... she learned bad Dutch? And, there's a reason immigrants work in childcare which needs to be seen too: if you want echte-dutch language and culture in childcare you have to pay better)
Australia is far from perfect. I'm not saying we do it better or the French do it better or anything. I'm just saying the Dutch have their quirks and institutional racism of a kind, is one of them. Along with a very new yorker fuck-you attitude. But maybe you're right, it's an Amsterdam thing. I'm told the south (maastricht) is very different and they certainly dress differently from what I saw. Somebody said it's like catholic protestant a bit too: old Dutch catholic money down south, old Dutch protestant money up north.
This is just an anecdote, but I was walking with a friend in Berlin and we went to get on the subway. A group of guys came up to us, pushed us out of the car and said "No Asians allowed." No one else on the car really cared.
It may not immediately look like those things are happening in your life or the lives of people you know, but when you look at e.g. the US, you see people advocating for programs that given housing, education, and other financial aid ti immigrants but do nothing for the poor we already have here. It is difficult to accept, but it's likely best we leave those people to starve out of sight somewhere our conscience can bear it. There's lots of places in the world that begin starving at the slightest economic downturn -- this is probably an indication that that land can't support the number of people on it.
I see plenty of video of riots in Europe of aryans and skinheads that you don’t see in the US.
Japan is also like this. As a foreigner it's one of the safest and formally nicest places to be, but you will run into a lot of underhanded double standards.
What's the problem with learning our native language if you want to live here and become Belgian for example?
Deleted Comment
Governments has the power to tax, so fines aren’t really that big of a deal for them.
(1) Many commit fraud by accident because of language issues and complicated rules. Also there are a lot of traveling immigrants who make mis-use of the Dutch welfare state by applying child credits or unemployment benefits while abroad.
Then again, maybe the Netherlands doesn't distinguish between the two.
The fraud encompassed people from mainly eastern European countries (mainly Bulgaria, hence it is known as the "Bulgarenfraude"). Because the tax authorities only checked afterwards, the fraud was often only noticed when the fraudsters had already returned to Bulgaria [1]. The target of these checks have the same race as the Dutch (they are both mainly Caucasian), so it is weird to hear that the nationality check is "racist".
If you look at the press release of the Dutch Data Protection Authority [2] (the agency that imposed the fine), you can see it does not even mention race or racism. It says the fine is due to "serious violations of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), the law governing privacy" and for discrimination in "unnecessarily retaining nationality data in its systems".
I had to look that up because, if I had just read the headline, I would incorrectly believe there was racism involved. Why is this article inflaming racial resentment? Is it just trying to use clickbait to get views? Is it trying to push fake-news for an agenda?
[1] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarenfraude
[2] https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/en/news/tax-administra...
... to itself
Dead Comment