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Posted by u/rich-cartwright 4 years ago
Launch HN: Fella (YC W20) – Tackling men's obesity using medication and coaching
Hey HN! I'm Richie from Fella (https://www.joinfella.com), a telehealth clinic for men with obesity. Fella helps men get to a healthier weight by matching them with a board-certified obesity doctor to prescribe an FDA-approved medication, while they undertake personalized health coaching.

I personally struggled with stress eating for 6 years. During that time, I was at Cambridge University, then built and sold my first company working with the UK government. It was tough, and poor eating habits as a teenager became a coping mechanism as an adult.

Fella first started as a "CBT+community" product to help men battling stress eating. It resonated due to the stigma around men's eating struggles. But we realized we were only half-serving most of our customers: even when no longer stress eating, most guys weren't getting to a healthier weight.

So we started researching effective, evidence-based treatments for obesity. When I say "we", I really mean my co-founder Luke. He studied medicine at Cambridge University, developing a patented AI approach to detecting cancer at a YC bio company, before moving to Microsoft Research. He parses bio papers better than me...

Obesity treatment is about to radically change. This is thanks to a breakthrough medication — NY Times called it a "game changer" in Feb 2021 [1]. The medication was approved by the FDA in June 2021 [2]. It leads to an average 15% decrease in body weight, efficacy close to bariatric surgery [3]. However, medication-assisted treatment for obesity is still stigmatized by family doctors and therefore hard to access.

Moreover, only 10% of those using weight management services are men, despite men representing 50% of those with obesity. This is because almost all programs market to women, placing too much emphasis on looks and not enough on health for a male audience. Stress eating is widespread among bigger guys, but mostly ignored — with too much focus on willpower and "eat less, move more". This needs to change.

So we pivoted to the Fella you see today: a telehealth experience with a board-certified obesity doctor for FDA-approved medication, combined with personalized health coaching. We went live in Texas in July, and are soon to be live in California and New York. Fella is a 12-month program and costs $149/month, paid quarterly. We’ll bring costs down over time to improve accessibility.

We still have lots of difficulties ahead. The main one could be insurance reimbursement: the latest wave of medications are expensive and insurers don't like to cover them [4].

We’re excited to hear your ideas, questions, concerns, feedback — and maybe any personal stories. I’ll be responding to comments all day, or feel free to shoot me an email at richie@joinfella.com.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/10/health/obesity-weight-los...

[2] https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-appr...

[3] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2032183

[4] https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-07-19/weight...

issa · 4 years ago
I am curious if this question has come up in company marketing discussions. One of the most common and off-putting things about the weight-loss industry is the vague medicine promise. Have you considered just saying "semaglutide" instead of "a breakthrough medication"? I honestly almost stopped reading because it comes off as so huckster-ish to me.
rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
I think a lot about our framing and I know for sure we haven't nailed it yet.

It's fair to say your avg HN reader is very different to your avg American. For example, you seem already somewhat clued up about Semaglutide. You're likely interested in the biology behind it, and probably aren't afraid to parse the journal article about it.

I really wanna emphasize how different this is to your avg American.

So it's more my bad for not tailoring our language enough for a HN post.

smsm42 · 4 years ago
I've never heard the word "Semaglutide" before this moment in my life. However, to me naming the thing sounds like "people that did at least some of the homework, and I could probably look it up and see if it's interesting to me", and calling it anonymous "breakthrough medication" sounds like yet another scam that tries to suppress my rational brain and get money out of me before I had time to think if it's worth it. It literally does nothing to inform me or to make me think I may be interested - everybody who can hire a copywriter has "breakthrough something", and I certainly don't have time to pay attention to dig up real information on all of them.

I understand that the hustle is a part of the marketing. But medicine is not the area where you should lean on it. At least not on it alone. If you don't give me full and verifiable information about what you have, I won't be interested. Too many scams around and too high risk, especially with the new and yet unproven stuff.

lkrubner · 4 years ago
I assume you've heard the advice that small startups should start in a niche and then expand towards the wider markets? Have you thought about initially focusing on Hacker News types, the types who read up on the technical documentation behind a drug?

You've probably heard the story about Head & Shoulders shampoo? This is taught in a lot of marketing classes. The year it launched there were other shampoos launching that also included selenium disulfide and piroctone olamine and therefore could have sold themselves as anti-dandruff shampoo, but the other shampoos instead went after the general market and they almost all failed. Head & Shoulders started with a niche and eventually became a giant:

"By 1982, it was the "number one brand" of shampoo, and it was noted that "No one hair care brand gets so many ad dollars as Head & Shoulders, a twenty year old brand, and no other brand matches its sales", despite it being a "medicated" shampoo."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_%26_Shoulders

noduerme · 4 years ago
Consider hacker mentality. You have a complex system that's not functioning the way it should. Do you drill to the root problem or just patch it temporarily? Weight gain is a problem, and the possible environmental contaminants and other causes behind society-wide weight gain are of interest as a big problem to solve. Workaround hacks like producing more insulin don't drill into the root cause. My first impulse (and probably that of most people here) is to identify what is being sold and then read what's known about the biological pathways it leverages. Not that we wouldn't all mind being fitter. But some argument needs to be made that altering basic cellular biochemistry for up-to 15% weigh loss has a risk/reward profile better than seeking root causes and addressing those, which any coder worth their salt would try to do first.
issa · 4 years ago
Just to clarify my initial comment... I am actually not particularly interested in the biological pathways, etc. My reaction was 100% because it sounds like the sketchy language of every single other weight loss "breakthrough" that has been touted in my lifetime. If you watch any youtube fitness guru videos (which I do not recommend!) you will see that it is a standard trope: "All you have to do is eat this one amazing super food" and they never tell you what it is. I think you are trying to offer a legitimate service, so please don't sound like those people.
notjulianjaynes · 4 years ago
If your cagey about whats in your pill my gut reaction is it either doesnt work or youre overcharging for it.

I am average American.

bradknowles · 4 years ago
And this medication is already approved by the FDA for those of us who are diabetic. At higher doses, even.

They’re just taking the same medication and using it at lower doses for weight loss instead of diabetes control.

And frankly, as a fat diabetic, I strongly suspect it’s doing the exact same thing in both cases, and the reason it works for diabetics is that it helps them lose weight.

It’s definitely on my list to discuss with my endocrinologist.

rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
Good to hear you'll be talking about it your endocrinologist.

Couple things:

Injectable Semaglutide was first FDA approved in 2017 as Ozempic. Wegovy is also injectable Semaglutide. The key difference is the approved dose: Ozempic is 1.0mg, Wegovy is 2.4mg. The FDA approval is also very important for future insurance remibursement.

Semaglutide is a GLP-1 RA. These medications stimulate a receptor in your body which results in three main effects: 1 - Slowing down gastric emptying so food stays in your stomach for longer (this is thought to be why there is sometimes nausea when starting the medication) 2 - Making you feel full by working on your central nervous system 3 - Managing glucose control (which is why it's used for people with diabetes too)

[1] gives you a great summary of the field up to now and how it works.

[1] https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/02/15/gl...

midjji · 4 years ago
Or medicines which have really long and strong evidence for weight loss effects like amphetamines?
User23 · 4 years ago
Or testosterone, which isn’t necessarily great for weight loss, but is fabulous for body composition, which I’m sure many men would be satisfied with. Weighing 200 with 18% body fat is probably more attractive to many tall men than weighing 160 with the same body fat. Muscle also raises basal metabolic rate which is nice for fat loss.

TRT clinics are grossly overpriced, charging $300+ A month for $5 drugs, so there is almost certainly room to disrupt that market. I’d be willing to wager many obese men display hypogonadism too.

rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
The doctors prescribe both GLP-1s & meds like Phentermine, among others. I just didn't wanna list them all out!
mitchellst · 4 years ago
Wow. This is really interesting and important. I’m not your target customer and don’t know a ton about health tech, so I’m not sure I can help you, but I wish I could. thank you for taking this on. Someone should. Sometimes the science and medicine is there but branding, marketing, and positioning in a bigger value prop aren’t things that doctors and hospitals are prepared to handle at scale. So, this is cool.

I do know one thing about your space, from pure happenstance. I live in Texas and my wife is a fourth-year medical student here. One of her profs is a bariatric surgeon and she spent time in his clinic. One of the interesting things she learned was the correlation between weight loss for one adult and weight loss of a household. I don’t remember the exact stats, but this doc would have whole families weigh in at his clinic, before and after. The results were astounding. The person who got the surgery would often lose only the plurality of the weight, and sometimes not even that. It’s something to consider messaging around as you target men and try to get through the stigma to persuade them to seek treatment. You are doing something good for your family; this is about more than just you. Texan men in particular are likely to hold more traditional values about being the head of their household, however unfashionable that may be. Help these fellas— and help their families.

rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
Thanks man. Just so I've fully understood here:

> "The person who got the surgery would often lose only the plurality of the weight, and sometimes not even that."

By this you're meaning the whole family lost weight after one individual had bariatric surgery?

mitchellst · 4 years ago
Yep, exactly.
ryanSrich · 4 years ago
Do you help people account for family lifestyles and cooking for more than just themselves? I used to do 2-3 day fasts, but now that I’m married with kids I find it almost impossible to do so since I cook and prep all the meals.

I tried low carb and keto. It works fine for me, but selling my wife on a breakfast that consists of 6 eggs and a pound of bacon is a hard sell. So there’s always bread and pasta in the house, which makes it harder to resist.

MagicWishMonkey · 4 years ago
My wife is lifelong vegetarian, and I'm a big fan of keto. We've basically adapted to a "I make food for myself, she makes food for herself and we split responsibility for making food for the kids" workflow and it works out pretty well.

It helps a lot that I do the grocery shopping, I try to avoid buying stuff that I'll be too tempted by - like regular carb tortillas or plain tortilla chips.

rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
Keeping food out of the house is a powerful behavioral device. It takes away the "Ability" part from the Fogg Behavior Model if you find that framework helpful.
rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
Yep really good point about the family dynamics - lots of the Fellas talk about how having teenage kids around makes the dietary side really tough.

How the coaching works in the program is that we dive in at the start to really understand the 1-3 key leverage points where we can make the most impact - then focus all our coaching time on these.

tarr11 · 4 years ago
I tried Noom twice. I was the only man in the support group both times. It didn’t really speak to me or work for me.

Definitely interested in this!

rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
We've heard this a lot..
diskzero · 4 years ago
I am glad to see this. I was involved in a similar startup that became bogged down due to reasons that had nothing to do with the validity of the approach you are taking.

As I am sure you are aware, obesity is a complex issue and many of the suggestions sufferers get such as eat less, exercise more, try fasting, go keto, etc. are simply not helpful in and of themselves. Neither is just prescribing the latest medications without other forms of support.

I hope your concept of telehealth, medical supervision and personal coaching is one that will get results. Obesity is a serious issue that is robbing society of people and potential.

senojretep356 · 4 years ago
Agree - I think psychology is everything. It's odd that drinking too much and drugs is always put down to trauma, stress, and psychological treatment is seen as number 1, whereas with food addiction - it's often ignored to the very last.

People can argue until they're blue in the face but if you eat less calories than you burn you will lose weight. The problem is people with trauma plus a food addiction are not able to do this.

Is there any research around where you live and propensity for morbid obesity - especially living by the sea? I could only find one study which did support this theory but it was in the UK. I live in Bondi Beach where socialising is essentially exercising - surfing, swimming, kayaking etc etc and anecdotally I don't think I've ever seen a morbidly obese person in over 30 years (I know this sounds ridiculous and maybe it's because they never leave the house but it's true).

rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
We're definitely a big proponent of a psychological approach for a lot of Fellas. And "food addiction" is a controversial but rapidly growing area of research.

That said, important to state a psychological-only approach sadly isn't sufficient for the majority of people.

I've never looked for research on this, but the environmental & social pressures are definitely believable why they may produce this outcome. I also wonder how important selection effect is here for your Bondi Beach example.

rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
Thank you very much for this. Kind message.

What was the previous startup by the way? Always interested in improving my knowledge of the space!

Eextra953 · 4 years ago
Great Idea!I checked out the website and it looks like it is targeted towards older men (40+). Was there any particular reasoning for this? I'm in my 20s and I know a lot of men my age who are obese. Was the program developed specifically for older men?
rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
Really good question. In our customer dev, we tended to find the older guys were a more motivated initial audience because health concerns are more top of mind. Plus there's still a lot of hesitancy & stigma around medication for obesity, but the older guys are more ready to take that step.

Fella works just as well for younger guys. Any more questions I can answer?

deberon · 4 years ago
As somebody who has lost and gained weight a couple times, I can confidently say that losing weight on it’s own is hard. Really hard. I’ve had far more success deliberately changing my entire lifestyle and outlook on life. For me, it had to be a part of a wholistic health regimen. This included therapy, healthy eating, regular exercise, proper sleep, and a good balance of recreational activities (it’s important to have fun!). As somebody with chronic sleep problems, it’s been interesting seeing how unhealthiness in one aspect of life (sleep in my case) can affect other areas of my life (my weight). It’s hard to quantify this line of thinking, because in the end, all I did was eat less and exercise more to lose the weight. That advice isn’t terribly helpful. Then again, it’s very likely that “just be healthier” is just as unhelpful ;)

I will say, don’t be too hard on yourself. My stress eating would spiral (and still does!) when I get too hard on myself. Set small goals and objectives (no eating after dark, be mindful of what you put on your plate, no second helpings, etc) because completing these always feels good.

rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
Well written. These are all core aspects of our coaching program to improve metabolic health: improve sleep, reduce stress, more pleasurable activities, better food choices, sustainable exercise routine, reasonable portion sizes.

The "small goals" is also critical to counter all-or-nothing thinking. We use a mix of behavioral & cognitive approaches to try to cement the improved habits & ways of thinking.

criticaltinker · 4 years ago
Interesting offering, definitely an important market.

> So we started researching effective, evidence-based treatments for obesity

Fasting has a tremendous amount science supporting it [1], can you articulate why you're pursuing the prescribed semaglutide approach instead?

[1] Fasting: Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S155041311...

rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
Spot on about fasting, and keto has solid evidence as well - https://www.virtahealth.com/ are a great company focused on this.

The issue is we're starting to have a more nuanced understanding of the metabolic resistance people face when they undergo dietary changes - basically the body fights hard against you as you try to lose weight by dieting.

So it's now industry-standard among obesity specialist doctors to see obesity as a "metabolic disease" which, for the vast majority of people, needs a medical approach which doesn't rely on willpower.

jimmaswell · 4 years ago
> basically the body fights hard against you as you try to lose weight by dieting.

I used to weigh 310lbs, now I'm 215lbs. All I did was count calories to maintain a deficit and the results were essentially the same as predicted by the math. I was a bit hungry sometimes at first as I adjusted to it but that's really it. Prioritizing protein and fat over carbs helps with that.

What ways does the body tend to fight against people?

criticaltinker · 4 years ago
Thanks for your response and taking the time to answer these questions.

> basically the body fights hard against you as you try to lose weight by dieting

Anecdotally I think many folks would agree. Any citations or references you could provide on this point would be greatly appreciated - I'm struggling to find any solid literature with the phrase "metabolic resistance" in the context of dietary changes.

> So it's now industry-standard among obesity specialist doctors to see obesity as a "metabolic disease" which, for the vast majority of people, needs a medical approach which doesn't rely on willpower.

I agree that the current standard of care is largely focused on prescription medication. Is there strong evidence supporting the claim that the majority of people need treatment that doesn't rely on willpower? I'm particularly interested in the well documented association between obesity and mental health [1], and I think Fella would be especially compelling if a holistic approach to treatment was offered.

[1] The High Prevalence of Poor Physical Health and Unhealthy Lifestyle Behaviours in Individuals with Severe Mental Illness https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David-Scott-76/publicat...

Unbeliever69 · 4 years ago
This has been so true to me. At the beginning of the pandemic I started keto. The first six months the weight fell off then I just hit a wall right around the time I began exercising (a full season of skiing) and weight lifting. For the last month I've been combining keto with IF and I'm getting a tiny bit of headway. My body just seems to be fighting VERY hard to resist my best efforts. And while I'm not checking to see if my body is in ketosis, my diet is significantly more strict compared to when I started keto 1.5 yr ago. I keep doing keto (despite the plateau) because it has helped me in many other ways (sleep, asthma, chronic fatigue, mental health etc.) For reference I am 51 yo.
zadler · 4 years ago
What’s the connection between stress eating and metabolic disease?
TeeMassive · 4 years ago
I tried fasting and a pure keto diet. While they do work, I felt miserable. This is not sustainable for people like me who has to lose more than 100 pounds.

Now I started losing weight by just balancing macro-nutrients; more protein, more vegetables, less carbs as opposed to absolutes "no" and "only" except for no sugary drinks and beer and deserts except in social occasions. Also big emphasis on weight lifting as opposed to cardio. Cardio helps with its own health benefits but is very poor for muscle growth and fat loss and should be seen as a compliment.

faichai · 4 years ago
I felt miserable on Keto the first two times I tried it. I’ve found doing fasting in the month prior helped with the adaptation and a large part of the misery was loss of electrolytes.

By using electrolyte powder I only really had one or two really miserable days this time round.

rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
Yep spot on about the sustainability. We hear this all the time from the Fellas.
elric · 4 years ago
Fasting is a migraine trigger for me. Many other migraineurs agree. Other migraineurs see benefits from fasting.

My point being: there is no "one size fits all" approach to weight loss.

rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
Important to hear this. I'd say there's a huge lack of empathy (understanding that someone can have a very different experience) in this space because of how it's tied in with society's take on individualism & moral responsibility.
agentdrtran · 4 years ago
As someone who has tried both: semaglutide and smaller diet changes have been a lot easier for me than fasting, which did work but was stressful and extremely difficult to do long term.
rich-cartwright · 4 years ago
Thanks for sharing, important to hear anecdotal evidence.