Do lower reading comprehension, stunted long and short term memory, and a constantly wandering mind also factor in there?

I was a precocious talker and reader, and in many ways a 'gifted' child, but I always struggled to comprehend reading material, or remain engaged with what a teacher was saying. These learning difficulties pretty much negated the value of any 'gift' I may have had. That said, anything related to computing, I was hooked.

It's taken decades to overcome these cognitive challenges, but meditation has been exceptionally helpful to me.

How does one treat chronic anxiety?

Xanax has a miracle reputation but like all other benzos it is said to only works temporarily as a hotfix, then you build up tolerance and you go back to your baseline Pre Xanax (or worse). What is very frustrating about such explanations is that I can't tell if it exactly put you back to your pre Xanax era or if after tolerance builds up (for a same dose) you are better than before, just slightly better. If so that would make Xanax slightly useful for long term treatment.

There are also SSRIs but it feels wrong to take SSRIs for someone that just has ADHD and anxiety, not depression.

There are anxyolitics e.g l-theanine pills, ashwaganda, etc Those don't seems to work (on me) and more importantly don't work for a whole day, just a few hours max.

What else?

> Hyperacusis

I didn't know this was associated with ADHD but have struggled with this my whole life. Is there anything at all that can be done about this? If I go to a concert or sometimes even just riding a motorcycle, earplugs are not quite enough

Good ones! The sensory overload kills me as well.

> - Difficulty in monogamous relationships (being distracted by other people very easily because they are stimulating/exciting)

This is interesting, I always thought that was just me. I've never been unfaithful, but I've always felt that "something different" appeals to me in relationships more than it does for other people. I've tried ethical non-monogamy once, and ended up in the same spot I'm usually in with my projects: trying to do too many at once, and end up half-assing or half-finishing them all.

> - Ooh yes one more Sunday pint. Oh wait, what's that, I fucked up Monday yet again and now I am fired again??

I feel that one too. Fortunately, my inability to sit still means I end up distracting myself with a bajillion things until I forget my head hurts. Never been fired for it, but it's a fine line to walk. The lack of impulse control also makes it difficult to avoid the situation (karaoke on a Tuesday night? Of course I'm in).

Fwiw, I find that my mind is looking for something to slow it down and let it cool off for a while more than it is for alcohol specifically. Marijuana doesn't really help me with that, but my shrink suggested L-Theanine (OTC, they should have it in the supplements section) and I've found that it ticks the box fairly well without the horrid side effects of booze.

> - People getting frustated as they don't keep up with how you dance between things

Ah yes, and then pair that with my frustration that I have to keep backtracking to explain how two things are linked in a way that I thought was obvious. I haven't found anything better to do there than forcing myself to ask for acknowledgement that the other person is still with me. I just pepper my conversations with "Does that make sense?" or "Right?" to give them time to interject. I also often find myself speaking quickly, and polite people have a hard time finding a time they can say "hold on, I'm lost".

Good stuff!!!

I feel life is an edge for everybody but having impulsive ADHD turns into a very exciting knife ridge on a mountain with one side sunny, happy and not so dangerous and the other, dark, enticing and dangerous.

I guess I have ADHD. I thought these were all normal things.

I've found myself, really wanting to reengineer code and have been fired from projects as I mostly freelance...

It's sort of a two way street... Knowing the expectations, convincing us that the bear minimum is all that's needed.

Just fix the bugs. Keep your head down. Don't rewrite 2k lines of code that's ugly and not broken...

Then I think positive two way communication is good... As the op said we suffer from fear of rejection bad also as a given imposter syndrome so if I get good feedback, I know I'm doing what you want, that you're happy... Etc.

I think part of wanting to reengineer may be wanting to convince the boss in the scenario or ourselves that we aren't just faking it and adding 20 hours to a budgeted 5 hours ends up having the reverse effect.

Tldr: good conversation, praise where due to reinforce good work and constructive criticism when something needs to change.

I was a lot worse in this respect as a junior dev... So that may also be a factor, the more ppl I work with the better I am.

I have ADHD and could be slightly ASD or just overlapping on symptoms which is common. Wasn't diagnosed till 3 years ago, medicine and exercise changed my life.

I've heard this so often, even from family. "It sounds like things everybody has to deal with".

It's infinitely more difficult with ADHD. I use phone apps to remind myself of everyday things and track my shopping lists. This may sound normal but it's a coping strategy and when it's gone I am unable to function as a normal human being. I cannot go shopping without a shopping list because I will grab things I think I need but that I actually do not need (which is why I have 3 glasses of chocolate spread for bread and 3 packs of cereal, but no bread or milk on most weekdays).

And I will point out that children in Europe are regularly treated for ADHD. I was treated for ADHD. As an adult however, it's impossible to be prescribed ADHD medication (all of which requires a prescription). In a lot of cases, coffee or other stimulants can help but aren't always available and don't fix it all.

Without suffering from ADHD, I'd say it's impossible to even comprehend the mental strain one experiences even for menial everyday tasks like remembering to brush your teeth (I require an app to remind me of doing that when it is not a workday, as my usual routine of going to work and going to bed early for a workday involves it. On weekends or vacation, I do not remember on my own to do basic things like that).

I heavily suspect that it's overdiagnosed in the US, but heavily underdiagnosed in the EU.

I have adult ADHD, and even though I tried to get help when I was turning 20 and started to fail university (I had an average of 1.3 for the classes that I did finnish, I just couldn't commit to anything) it took me 3 years until I got a diagnosis (due to ridiculously long waiting times for doctors appointments).

In the end I only got a doctors appointment because I got diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, and my neurologist, who is also a psychyatrist was like "btw I also think you have ADHD, ever tried to get help for that?".

I'm from Europe. Europe is a moralising backwater when it comes to ADHD. ADHD is one of the most impairing "disorders" out there. Around 5% of people have it. Once you know its symptoms more intimately, the behaviour of a lot of your people in your life suddenly will make sense.

If you happen to be from Germany or France, watch this: https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/096295-000-A/psycho-attention-...

If you have more time, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVDhYtQkuO8

This one is "fun" as well: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30526189/

"Results: Childhood ADHD-C was associated with a 9.5-year reduction in healthy ELE (estimated life expectancy), and a 8.4-year reduction in total ELE relative to control children by adulthood. The persistence of ADHD to adulthood was linked to a 12.7-year reduction in ELE. Several background traits accounted for more than 39% of variation in ELE."

I suspect that by:

>People thinking it’s not a real condition.

the person you're responding to meant statements like yours:

>Frankly, the symptoms you describe apply to pretty much everybody, and are just the things one deals with in life.

According to the NIH, prevalence of severe ADHD in children is around 4% [1]. This differs by degree from "the things one deals with in life" for most people - it's an extreme version that can be debilitating without treatment.

[1] https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/attention-deficit...

" Watching from Europe, where roughly nobody is diagnosed with it nor prescribed drugs to treat it"

And here is yet another victim to the 'Europe is a homogenous country-like entity' fallacy. Where in Europe are you talking about, and what age category? Because I can tell you that in the Netherlands this is very much wrong.

you’re insinuating that adhd (or, executive functions disorders) don’t exist.

1. there is lots of evidence showing that “something” is wrong with lots of peoples executive functions and that this observed problem is hereditary.

2. this is pretty insensitive.

everybody does have these symptoms to some extent as you executive functions can’t be running 100% all the time. just like everyone has varying degrees of sight. it’s only a problem when it negatively impacts your life.

for someone with an executive function disorder the symptoms happen often enough and with enough severity to materially impact their ability to; do work, have friends, be organised etc.

not like, oh i forgot the milk (though, that happens) but like: “oh, i forgot i was brushing my teeth and now i’m searching for rubber gloves to replace the ones with a hole in from the kitchen, where did i leave my tooth brush?”

the meds impact people with an executive function disorder little differently too, they return executive function to normal. so, while you maybe amped up on amphetamines to some degree your head is clear , your ability to pick which questions to answer, which rabbit holes to explore, to maintain more than 1 thing in your head at a time is restored. for 4-8 hours a day you get to be somewhat like your peers.

A quick google search show that diagnosis rates in Europe are only half the USA. That’s not that big a gap, and easily explained by cultural and institutional differences.

For example, a lot of parents do not treat their ADHD kids with medication. However getting the diagnoses allows for the kid to get an Individualized Educational Plan setup with their school district that makes exceptions to cater for their needs, like special counseling services. A medical diagnosis of ADHD, especially if untreated, is how you get into these special programs.

Yes, every child in the United States is diagnosed and given stimulants for fun, unlike enlightened Europe.

It might be over-diagnosed in the United States. I sure think so. But that does not make the effects of the disorder any less damaging.

At any rate, perhaps you might consider whether Europe is under diagnosing disorders like ADHD? Or, perhaps your have an incorrect understanding about ADHD diagnoses in the US?

Just because everyone sneezes doesn't mean hay fever doesn't exist.

I'm in Europe, have severe ADHD and I never got the help I needed, only punishment. I'm horrified of the incredible amount of ruined people that statistically must exist in Europe.

It only makes matters worse

I was diagnosed with ADHD, prescribed ritalin. My mother opted me out of being medicated. It wasn't necessary for me, because I shouldn't've been diagnosed with ADHD. This was in early 2000s when ADHD was being applied to any kid with today's spectrum-like behavior

But that doesn't mean others don't have a real struggle with this

Coming from Europe (Poland) I hate the politicians for it. My school experience was a nightmare. My friendships went away. My apartment was always a mess. I couldn't hold to any project for more than a few weeks. I was struggling with simple everyday thing like paying bills (had electricity cut off several times because of missed bills), keeping any kind of commitment, making any kind of change in my life. I think the best description of it is executive function disorder.

I was even diagnosed as a child (very rare back in the day) but all they focused on was the hyperactive part. They made me attend useless therapy sessions, blamed me for everything and labeled a lazy not caring child. No one ever even mentioned medication.

The hyperactive part went away when I was around 13. I was healed or so they thought. Still lazy, still wasting my potential, still couldn't learn to sit quietly in place but not stirring trouble anymore.

My life was a disaster since graduating high school. I dropped from university. Lost contact with most friends, started gambling for living - I was good at math and reasoning and it was easy back then to make living at it. I never had any kind of job nor hold any kind of marketable skill.

And then I met someone who gave stimulants to me. It was night and day difference instantly. My apartment was suddenly clean. My bills were paid. I started learning programming again. I founded a small software company which got very successful. I started a relationship, reconnected with some friends. Started doing sports, stopped missing appointments. I even got officially diagnosed with ADHD in my thirties. It took a while to find about one place in my country that diagnoses adults. Most doctors didn't even want to talk to me as they thought I just want to get stimulants to get high. It's a humiliating experience when you hear a doctor after doctor telling you it doesn't exist, that I just want stimulants or that maybe I should get a calendar and organize my life.

It's still not perfect. The only stimulant I can legally get here is Ritalin which has very unpleasant side effects. I can get Modafinil on black market which is too mild but doesn't have sides and makes things a bit better. Trying to get Adderall can land me in jail. It's usually a mix of small doses of Modafinil and either caffeine or very small Ritalin dose. This way I can get a few productive hours a day. Maybe 4. If I can get 4 I am happy. It was a good day and I don't hate myself after.

I have one thing to say to self righteous moralizing politicians and doctors in Europe. Go fuck yourself. I am lucky to be born with above average IQ and not trusting you much. To do my reading and being able to get stuff on the black market. You still caused my life to be a constant struggle for 2 decades. I know there are people who never realized the change is possible and their suffering is to satisfy your moral convictions.

So why exactly are you horrified? Is there a pleasure in watching people struggle and being able to get help? Is it some kind of God given destiny they have to deal with? Are you horrified when people get insulin to treat Diabetes as well or TRT to treat androgen deficiency? I have heard such comments a lot and all I hear is: "you should suffer your destiny, we don't help people here".

Well by reading a lot of stories here to be fair this seems like a mix of:

- parents not actually caring for their children. Not putting them through the motions of life. Boundaries, schedules, motions, etc. How many of those have dinner in front of the TV? Don't "eat their vegetables"? You raise a kid on overprocessed food and no exercise, what do you think is going to happen? (not saying absolutely this is the only issue, far from it)

- Overmedicalization, sure, up to a bit. I can sympathize with people that need the medication to feel better and be productive, but how many of those have a legitimate problem and how many of those "just need a nudge". Learn to manage emotions and priorities is also part of growing up.

- "Somebody elses problem", If school is boring is the problem with the school or the kid?

Not saying that ADHD is not a real issue, but if you took a look at all aspects of that person's life, I bet you would find lots of things to fix.

Kids do get diagnozed with ADHD in Europe, it is real thing. Following are my speculations.

I think that threads from few days ago where basically all Americans found it normal and expected to for 5 years old to learn reading might have to do with that. If you expect too much of kids too soon, a lot of them wont be able to cope. You can then either adjust expectation or claim those kids sick.

The other difference I noted is much less physical freedom Americans give to their kids and much bigger obsession with physical safety. Their kids do a lot of organized sport, but seemingly less of "run around as you please right now on whim". Which might have been related.

Most of the listed symptoms are characteristic of an executive function disorder, of which adhd is the most well known. Very few people have "perfect" executive function without drugs. In other words, it's pretty normal for most people to experience some form of executive dysfunction and it's usually something one learns to manage. Executive functioning is skill just like anything else.

From what I understand, ADHD and other executive function disorders are Defined by having extreme enough of an executive function deficit (relative to peers of a similar age and development) that it has a significant impact on their day-to-day life (because if it didn't, why would you be going to a psych to be diagnosed?). But just because it's relatable also doesn't inherently mean that you have ADHD.

If you think of executive function as being a spectrum, and executive function ability being a normal distribution, the line for adhd is some arbitrary point on that upslope.

Of course, there are people making the argument that phones and social media and the internet and instant gratification might be contributing to executive dysfunction, but this is the kind of thing that's really hard to measure against some objective scale.

They’re basically all related to having deficient or broken reward reactions, the primary emotional reaction to dopamine. Willpower is hard to achieve if you expect to be disappointed. Pretending is a social necessity to avoid disappointing others, and the rejection that you could expect from that. Failing to muster willpower or follow through manifests that disappointment. Emotions swing when the little burst of reward that might sustain someone else is gone, and then you scrutinize your ability to even appreciate what you do have. Maintaining friendships is hard if you need to tend to yourself, and then again if you feel guilty for neglecting your friends. It compounds if your guilt makes it harder to reach out after some time being a “bad” friend. People questioning your reality makes you question it too. Now it’s your fault, in your mind. But if you’re incapable of fixing it you’re just... at odds with everything. If you are medicated... those other waking hours you’re dealing with all of this not only without the chemical benefits but with the crash that comes after which can amplify everything else.

All of them are related to the executive functioning subsystem in the brain, located in prefrontal cortex.

This really hits home for me. I didn't even recognize this tendency in myself for years, until my now wife pointed it out to me.

One thing that's really helped me is to periodically sit down with a piece of paper in a quiet room and answer the question: "what am I ignoring right now?"

The stuff I write down _always_ surprises me. Always.

sorry you had to go through that.

> Why does no one focus on the positives?

Because the negatives massively outweigh any positives? I know that there are some authors who are trying to sell the idea of 'ADHD as a superpower' just like there are other authors who are trying to brand autism or even surviving cancer a 'superpower'. But just because an opinion is contrarian doesn't mean it's right. How else would you sell a book in a saturated market?

These 'positives' you mentioned are kind of useless when you can't steer the direction of your attention but tend to hyperfocus on random things that change ever so often.

If you can manage to somehow make a career out of it, more power to you.

Personally, I have tried to learn coding for over 20 years now. By now I have started over for dozens of times (Pascal, Delphi, VB, C, C++, Python, JS, Rust) and still I have zero to show for it.

Do you think improved brain imaging could help with this, or is it still not precise enough?

Isn't that true of an awful lot of conditions; "differential diagnosis"?

> Stimulants were sometimes not recommended for anxious patients, since they might contribute to anxiety and sleeplessness for some kids.

Interestingly, Ritalin at low doses is being used at night to help ADD people sleep better. I think its because it keeps their minds from wandering too much when trying to fall asleep. Stimulants are also used to reduce anxiety in ADD people, but as you say, they may also increase it...double edged sword...guess each person has learn how to use it uniquely.

I suppose the question is what is “raising them right” mean to you?

As a boy I was raised to be inquisitive, open, masculine, physical and explorative.

I was also raised to be gentle and tolerant of those around me.

Those are not traits that are welcome in most schools for maybe the past 20 years. So more and more boys are indeed given medications to “calm down” what are really natural traits of masculinity.

Boys are intentionally misdiagnosed with ADHD to give medication to alter their behaviour?

I've found that visceral defensiveness is a reliable signal to introspect more deeply, since the surface trigger is rarely the same as the reaction's root cause.

I don't think people using motorized wheelchairs devalues the hard work I do walking around, and I think it's only fair to ensure there are ramps and elevators where necessary, even if I take the stairs.

And sure, I've seen some able-bodied teens goofing off with motorized wheelchairs before. But notice that we don't see everyone using motorized wheelchairs, only those who really need them.

Don't be the person judging the motorized wheelchair user to "just use their limbs like the rest of us." How monstrous would it be to take the motorized wheelchair away and make them crawl through life?

Regarding child development: Tiny Tim isn't walking like the other kids his age, so a doctor gives him a motorized wheelchair. Maybe his disability is permanent and he needs the wheelchair. Maybe he literally grows out of it. Maybe using the wheelchair so early in life atrophies his legs to the point where he now needs the wheelchair? I'm not convinced that happens without both bad parenting and bad doctoring. In any case, we should be supporting Tiny Tim, not wagging our collective finger at him as we take away his wheelchair and tell him to walk.

Maybe you're hung up on what "boring" means? That could be really life fulfilling things like connecting with friends, trying hard at work, financial planning, relaxing, etc.

If you overlap Elon Musks behavior (or a number of quite famous musicians) with ADHD diagnosis charts, you’re going to have a fun time.

Like most things, we celebrate the high functioning folks and denigrate those who aren’t. Kids are also expected to fall in line and be easy to manage, and those that aren’t get medicated.

> ADHD-like dysfunction in adults

If a lot of people are struggling with the institutions, it's probably the institutions that are the problem. Not the people.

Or we call them “classic absent-minded geniuses” and celebrate their accomplishments in high-level knowledge work, while treating their challenges as cute and endearing.

IQ, co-occurring conditions, and socioeconomic factors have a pretty big impact on which of those (or a number of other) outcomes are realized.

Like Elon Musk's menial job.