I truly grasped what's all the hullabaloo about repairability and felt the pain when I first had to go look for SSD replacement for my mid 2012 MacBook Air. Other than burning a crater in my pocket (by getting the Apple supplied part) I really couldn't find an option. It's just lying there. The "adapter + some SSD" trials failed as well and at least in my country there's no replacement with those "particular pin sets"
I am going to think real long and hard when I buy my next laptop.
I bought it in late 2012 or early 2013 I believe. I tried repair first in early 2017 (moisture killed the SSD they all said). Then late last year I tried again. In the meantime I have essentially used my work Mac as the only laptop.
Previous company required me to leave work laptop in office that's why I bought one. Of late this company has been pressuring to install surveillance apps so my new-found interest in reviving my old laptop personal usage - browsing, mail etc - I don't anything else from my personal laptop.
So essentially it has not been used since 2017 (I keep it safe in an airtight bag). It boots up and shows the [?] as in no disk found.
Resale value of the older laptops is still decent. 2013 MacBook Pro’s still going for £750 on eBay - For a machine 8 years old? I think it only cost £2000 back then anyway. So that Mac has only cost £13 a month to own.
Conversely, I expect used Intel MacBook and Mac Mini prices to go up when the last models are discontinued in 1–2 years' time, as that will be the only way to run x86 virtualization for Windows et al.
I wish articles would be more specific about the loads and use cases under which the new Macs shine versus are not much better than the old Intel macs.
I thought the main strengths distinguishing the performance of the M1 were the idle power chips that saved a lot of energy, and the shared CPU/GPU memory. For loads running flat out all the time and emphasizing GPU, the difference is not as great, I thought?
Apple is still selling Macbooks with Intel inside. That cannot be just stupidity, right?
> Apple is still selling Macbooks with Intel inside. That cannot be just stupidity, right?
No, it just means the transition to ARM is not done. At WWDC they said it’ll take two years to convert the whole product line [1]. We are only a few months into that. Judging by the last couple years, the Apple HW ship turns slowly, but it does turn.
Also, there’s no need to be so harsh. When other people do something you don’t understand, it’s bad to assume they’re stupid. They probably have reasons you don’t know about.
The only reason they’re selling MacBooks with Intel is bc they haven’t updated the whole line yet. They did the entry level models for MacBook, Air, and mini. They’ll do the rest when they roll out the M1X (higher end first party chip) later this year to the rest of the line.
Look up the performance stats, for loads running flat out or using GPU, M1 is insanely faster. People are replacing their two year old $5K top of the line MacBooks with an entry level M1 and seeing massive real world performance gains. That’s the point of this article - why would anyone pay $2-3K for a used 15” MacBook Pro that retailed for $5K in 2018 when they can buy an M1 that blows it out of the water brand new for half the price?
There are still limiting factors (if you need ports, more RAM, etc) since these are entry level models, but the rumors about the next gen MBPs coming in H2 of this year sound like they’ll tackle those easily.
The article author seems to assume that Apple will steadily increase the performance of part or all of their entire product line in 2021 with Apple Silicon. Since Apple has been doing that with the iPhone for ten years, it’s quite reasonable to assume this will affect their laptop and desktop lines too.
The first Apple Silicon release is better than nearly everything available from Intel. That same first release will likely be obsolete by the end of 2021, as Apple advances with M1X or M2. That annual obsolescence may well continue for the next ten years, too.
So the used Apple laptop market is going to look a lot more like the used iPhone market - and in the used iPhone market, you get 15% of what you paid, not 85%, because there’s an endless supply of new phones forcing the used market down.
It's not really about the raw speed or single core perf anymore. These M1 processors have huge caches and flat-out workloads can really scream on them. Apple engineers took a holistic approach to optimizing the processor for general computing workloads, and it shows.
As long as you get one with 16GB RAM you’ll be okay. The SSD in 2015 MBPs can also be upgraded - MacSales sells complete DIY kits. I knew I was going this route and managed to find a 16GB RAM/128GB SSD and just upgraded to the 2TB drive[0]. It screams.
I held onto my old one until the 2019s came out. I’m happy with my decision to wait and also with the 2019 MBPro.
Post-pandemic, I’m almost exclusively typing on a Kinesis, but pre-pandemic, I found the laptop keyboard to be okay.
If I’d known we’d have a pandemic, wouldn’t be traveling in 2020, and that M1s were coming out, I’d have waited longer, but I’d probably have made other, more impactful decisions than which laptop to buy.
Mine is by far the best computer that I’ve ever owned. All the ports are there, the screen is great, it’s incredibly fast, and I love the trackpad/keyboard. I’ve had it for about a year and a half and it still makes me really happy every time I use it. Highly recommend.
I’m still running a late 2012 15” MBP which was upgraded at purchase with the 2.6GHz i7 and 16GB of ram. It remains one of the most reliable laptops I’ve ever owned, and so far I’ve only needed to replace the battery when it stopped lasting all day which I regularly need. I suspect once it can’t run the latest MacOS that will probably kill it, for now it runs Big Sur fine with some small patches and Windows 10 in bootcamp for the two or so pieces if software I just can’t avoid.
If you can find a much newer one, the more recent 16” macbooks have a much improved typing experience over the first attempt at the butterfly keys, otherwise a 2015 one with upgrades to at least the RAM will still run quite well.
Rumour has it that they're planning to bring back all the ports in the next version, and that they'll be an 12-core version. Personally I'm waiting for that (but then I already have a 2015 model, so I'm in a good position).
> they're planning to bring back all the ports in the next version
I'd be surprised if they brought back ALL of the ports. I'm guessing they'll bring back the HDMI and the sd card slot (although probably microSD this time).
Still using my 2015 MBP 15" with no issues minus some loss of battery life. If you can find one with light usage for cheap it might not be a terrible idea.
I don't use mine for CPU intensive tasks though, so YMMV.
I have a 2015 MBP 15" also, and it's still a really good machine. Even if you find one with a shot battery you can get Apple to replace the battery for $200.
I think there are two dynamics at play: the weak economy for much of the middle class and the jobless rate being higher than normal, along with work from home and pandemic aspects of life increasing demand for home electronics.
People want computers perhaps more than normal, but do they have the money to spend?
I think this is why Apple was advertising Education pricing on the M1 Macs the day they came out. They don’t care that you qualify, it’s basically a “buy from Apple directly instead of a third party retailer” discount.
This is all just my amateur theory - I think Apple wants to keep volumes up and sell something to meet demand.
Yeah, I think it's more that people can't justify what I'd call luxury pricing for hardware right now. I'm not aware of any significant failures in the M1 design to suggest that Apple screwed up hard at least.
When things turn around, I'd expect Apple to pick back up pretty well. I'm not an Apple owner nor a fan, but I definitely have an interest in watching the evolution of these since they're the first real rival to x86 in a long time.
There's a real possibility I'll end up going to a future Apple, Microsoft (since they're looking into doing their own ARM chips now as well), or some other ARM architecture in the next 10 years if Intel and AMD can't keep x86 ahead. It looks like Intel already lost with almost no hope of getting back into a competitive position, so AMD's what I'm watching closest on that side.
Also, look, before anyone downvotes me for being Anti-Intel(tm), I just want to say that I'm going to remain skeptical until Intel can do 2-3 generations of good chips in succession without dropping the ball hard. Zen has two or three generations of good improvement showing up, and Intel might have ONE generation with the newest chips coming out but that doesn't mean they'll keep it up.
If Intel does that, I'll keep them in consideration. Until that point.. well, I'm just going to remain skeptical and cautious.
The middle class who still have jobs currently have more money than they know what to do with! Markets are soaring and personal current accounts are full to bursting, according to central banks, as nobody has anything to spend money on. This gives me hope for a quick economic bounce-back. It's the working class and people who have lost their jobs who are seriously struggling. The middle class are fine.
At our company we have a bunch of Macbook pro 13" with butterfly keyboards that nobody wants to use internally, that in combo with the new M1s really made the resale value drop, it did leave us with a bad taste in the mouth.
Readit News
I am going to think real long and hard when I buy my next laptop.
Can you boot from external drive?
Previous company required me to leave work laptop in office that's why I bought one. Of late this company has been pressuring to install surveillance apps so my new-found interest in reviving my old laptop personal usage - browsing, mail etc - I don't anything else from my personal laptop.
So essentially it has not been used since 2017 (I keep it safe in an airtight bag). It boots up and shows the [?] as in no disk found.
Deleted Comment
Saying that, I still own a MacBook Pro 2013 and a newer 2016 for from work, and the performance is indistinguishable - so maybe £750 is a good deal.
That is all part of the reason prices stayed high - until there was a genuine update.
It's called a dead-cat bounce.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_bounce
I thought the main strengths distinguishing the performance of the M1 were the idle power chips that saved a lot of energy, and the shared CPU/GPU memory. For loads running flat out all the time and emphasizing GPU, the difference is not as great, I thought?
Apple is still selling Macbooks with Intel inside. That cannot be just stupidity, right?
No, it just means the transition to ARM is not done. At WWDC they said it’ll take two years to convert the whole product line [1]. We are only a few months into that. Judging by the last couple years, the Apple HW ship turns slowly, but it does turn.
Also, there’s no need to be so harsh. When other people do something you don’t understand, it’s bad to assume they’re stupid. They probably have reasons you don’t know about.
[1]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/this-is-apples-roadm...
Look up the performance stats, for loads running flat out or using GPU, M1 is insanely faster. People are replacing their two year old $5K top of the line MacBooks with an entry level M1 and seeing massive real world performance gains. That’s the point of this article - why would anyone pay $2-3K for a used 15” MacBook Pro that retailed for $5K in 2018 when they can buy an M1 that blows it out of the water brand new for half the price?
There are still limiting factors (if you need ports, more RAM, etc) since these are entry level models, but the rumors about the next gen MBPs coming in H2 of this year sound like they’ll tackle those easily.
The first Apple Silicon release is better than nearly everything available from Intel. That same first release will likely be obsolete by the end of 2021, as Apple advances with M1X or M2. That annual obsolescence may well continue for the next ten years, too.
So the used Apple laptop market is going to look a lot more like the used iPhone market - and in the used iPhone market, you get 15% of what you paid, not 85%, because there’s an endless supply of new phones forcing the used market down.
[0]: https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/S3DAPT4MB20K/
Post-pandemic, I’m almost exclusively typing on a Kinesis, but pre-pandemic, I found the laptop keyboard to be okay.
If I’d known we’d have a pandemic, wouldn’t be traveling in 2020, and that M1s were coming out, I’d have waited longer, but I’d probably have made other, more impactful decisions than which laptop to buy.
If you can find a much newer one, the more recent 16” macbooks have a much improved typing experience over the first attempt at the butterfly keys, otherwise a 2015 one with upgrades to at least the RAM will still run quite well.
I'd be surprised if they brought back ALL of the ports. I'm guessing they'll bring back the HDMI and the sd card slot (although probably microSD this time).
I don't use mine for CPU intensive tasks though, so YMMV.
People want computers perhaps more than normal, but do they have the money to spend?
I think this is why Apple was advertising Education pricing on the M1 Macs the day they came out. They don’t care that you qualify, it’s basically a “buy from Apple directly instead of a third party retailer” discount.
This is all just my amateur theory - I think Apple wants to keep volumes up and sell something to meet demand.
When things turn around, I'd expect Apple to pick back up pretty well. I'm not an Apple owner nor a fan, but I definitely have an interest in watching the evolution of these since they're the first real rival to x86 in a long time.
There's a real possibility I'll end up going to a future Apple, Microsoft (since they're looking into doing their own ARM chips now as well), or some other ARM architecture in the next 10 years if Intel and AMD can't keep x86 ahead. It looks like Intel already lost with almost no hope of getting back into a competitive position, so AMD's what I'm watching closest on that side.
Also, look, before anyone downvotes me for being Anti-Intel(tm), I just want to say that I'm going to remain skeptical until Intel can do 2-3 generations of good chips in succession without dropping the ball hard. Zen has two or three generations of good improvement showing up, and Intel might have ONE generation with the newest chips coming out but that doesn't mean they'll keep it up.
If Intel does that, I'll keep them in consideration. Until that point.. well, I'm just going to remain skeptical and cautious.
I've heard nothing but complaints about their licensing, but IIRC some older versions (CS6?) still work after only one-time activation.