Ask HN: I implemented the life I designed: perfect but I feel lost. What now?

Once you’ve conquered Maslow’s original hierarchy of needs, dig into his final need that he added later in life. Achieve not for yourself but for your community or your world. Transcend the self, and feel that higher order need.

As another commenter mentioned, altruistic endeavors are a good choice. Even things like being a Boy Scout leader can be hugely fulfilling of that broader need.

danesparza · 5 years ago

This. This is the thing that I have discovered gives back a sense of fulfillment like nothing else.

My wife and I went through an extremely rough patch in our marriage where we considered divorce. We got our finances in order (even after going through a bankrupticy) and went to marriage counseling with a fantastic marriage counselor.

Now more than a decade later, we are pre-marriage mentors and financial coaches through our church. It is more fulfilling that I could have possibly imagined.

jbj · 5 years ago

I think I remember reading or hearing Malcolm Gladwell reccomend to visit less fortunate/developed parts of the globe, and understand what really matters for humans, as well as realising how small things even can help.

For an extreme case to seek inspiration from someone who has everything, and genuenly seems content with his life is Bill Gates.

Best of luck, and congrats on achieving what you have!

adv0r · 5 years ago

Where do I start? What's the first baby step? I googled "Volunteering opportunities" many times without success so far ;)

jaredchung · 5 years ago

It's GREAT that you're in this position! CONGRATULATIONS!!!

I went through this as well. 10 years ago I was at the peak of a career but missing purpose. I rededicated my life to serving other people. It has given me a whole new lease on existence, and I can't recommend it enough. It really feels better to give than to receive!

The short, overly simplistic answer is that all you need to do to rededicate yourself to a life of helping people is to listen and learn to what they need. Volunteering is a good way to learn about people who need help, but it's not the only way. Volunteering in person can be tough right now because of COVID, but there are some things you can do online, and if you have a bit of patience you could wait until in-person volunteering picks back up again and then establish some goals for yourself (e.g., "volunteer at least 3 days each month for 6 months")

Outside of volunteering, you could take time to listen to and learn about people who you think might need help. Depending on your geography, those might be different folks.

If the things above STILL don't work for you, you could do something that is maybe slightly more dangerous, but still can work. Flip it around and look for things to be outraged by. Things you can't stand. Mass deforestation. Racial injustice. Human trafficking. 1000 other injustices to choose from. And then get active! (Be cautious with this one -- rage alone isn't productive -- you have to mix your outrage with your proactive strengths and positive energies too!)

In my case, I ended up discovering my passion for helping low-income youth prepare for careers, which became my full-time focus and it's been a true privilege to work on.

lcall · 5 years ago

I noted elsewhere, but directly to this q: one volunteering site that doesn't require you to figure out detailed extensive plans before getting started, is probably https://justserve.org . They let orgs and volunteers sign up and see what is available, for a given locality.

cheschire · 5 years ago

Baby steps?

Paint smiley faces or flowers on small stones and randomly leave them on sidewalks around your town. No more than one every few blocks. Never check on them again.

Study karma.

Learn how to adjust your presence to uplift the people you pass by. Positive comments, compliments, and even learning how to hope for someone’s recovery when they insult you.

Call a local publicly funded organization and ask if they have volunteer opportunities.

_y5hn · 5 years ago

Red Cross is worldwide and have lots of different volunteering activities. Also, most cities in the world have centras with volunteers doing different things. You need to find local engagement, and getting to know people, your network start to expand in that area. You can start by calling these and ask how to proceed, what would be suitable, or even just try out a course or something.

This is something that may enrich your life, but I wouldn't rely solely on volunteering and charity. They should be part of life, but your yearning is more personal than that.

exanimo_sai · 5 years ago

Hey - just my two cents. You seem like someone of means (intellectual and financial). Volunteering and charity can be personally fulfilling but systemised charity is ineffective. Use your skillset and networks to resolve something from the root. Financial inequality is the root of most social ills - is there something you can do in micro-financing? Something in upskilling/education or employment?

Good luck! I feel you will hit upon something worth while.

muzani · 5 years ago

It sounds like you can do much more than volunteering, especially if you're good at making and hitting goals.

Check out the Bill Gates documentary on Netflix if you haven't. One notable thing he does is he picks up a lot of books on the problems faced by the world.

Personally, I'd love to help out the average person. People in my area are underpaid and have terrible working conditions - the average "senior" programmer makes a little over $1,000/month and most end up in dead end jobs with few opportunities. There's also people in more remote areas, who are paid too little to find a better job, and labor laws are barely sustainable anymore.

As someone who has implemented what you wanted, maybe you can help others do the same. Instead of giving soup to homeless people, you can give them a reasonable goal to strive for.

c22 · 5 years ago

Do you have hobbies? What do you like to do? Seek out opportunities that play to your strengths. Every small organization, community institution, or non-profit entity could use some volunteer help. Most of them aren't taking out google adwords.

wikibob · 5 years ago

What city do you live in?

In San Francisco or Seattle, Google "soup kitchen volunteer {city}".

Low commitment, no special skills required. Go try it. Talk to the other people there. Ask where else they volunteer. You can literally google this today and help this week.

Are you following Black Lives Matter? Get involved at the local level. Research your police department and social services funding for your city. Really dig into the details. Find organizing groups there that are working to enact real change through fiscal policies.

j88439h84 · 5 years ago

Read "The most good you can do".

thebrainscanner · 5 years ago

+1 for altruistic endeavors. Nothing beats the fulfillment you get on helping others, even a small act might mean a huge thing for someone else.

When I was older than you, I left technology to try for medical school. After several years of studies, some of it absolutely brutal, I had to go back to technology; my brain is just not wired to memorize large amounts of information as required to pass med school exams. It was a fascinating detour and I was fortunate that I had the tech skills to get back into technology, though my dreams of becoming a doctor had come to an end.

I guess my message is, push yourself to try different things, ascend to new heights. You may, like me, crash and burn, but it's also a way to grow (perhaps, at least, like me, learn some humility and understanding of your own flaws and limitations).

There's a wonderful book, a bit dated but still worth reading: "What Should I Do With My Life" by Po Bronson[1], a set of interviews with people who became restless and changed careers, sometimes succeeding, sometimes "a work in progress". I got a lot of inspiration from reading others' stories and perhaps you will, as well.

1. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FBFMKC

PascLeRasc · 5 years ago

Did you do a post-bac program for this? I'm in the process of trying to leave software and become a PA, but I'm not sure what the best path would be, or how to budget/plan.

blisterpeanuts · 5 years ago

Yes, I did a post-bac program. But you don't need a program; you can just take the prerequisite courses: physics, chemistry, organic chemistry, and biology.

PA is a tough program, and very competitive today; it's not much different from med school (shorter, though).

I'm not sure if PA programs offer a medical masters program, but many med schools do: a 24 month degree program featuring two semesters of coursework that is identical to the first year of medical school followed by two semesters of other stuff including thesis. Usually people do it to prove to themselves and to med schools that they have what it takes; it significantly improves their chances of admission. Probably would help with PA as well. I wish I had done a medical masters degree and that would have helped me either pass med school, or realize it wasn't for me!

PA is also different in that it is rooted in the Vietnam era, giving a pathway to war medics who have lots of field experience but lack the schooling and credentials of med school. To get into PA school, you're expected to have around 1,000 hours of field work -- volunteering, EMT, nursing, etc. This may have changed recently, but was true 10-12 years ago for sure.

I've spoken to quite a few M.D.s who said they wish they had chosen PA -- a shorter path, less stress, and very satisfying.

xnyan · 5 years ago

My wife just did this. Basically she took the prerecs over two years while working as a clinical research manager which also gave her the required hours of med-related work experience.

Total cost is 100-200k depending on the program, including living expenses. Most people borrow that.

skadamou · 5 years ago

I can speak to this a little bit. I am in the process of finishing a post-bacc with the goal of applying to medical schools next year after having switched from a career in tech.

My biggest piece of advice would be to not let go of your career too soon. It's tough taking classes and working a full time job simultaneously but I think it's really important to make sure that you can handle that kind of work load and that this is a change you really want to make before giving up your livelihood. It might take you an extra year in your post-bacc but IMO the extra year of financial security and time to figure out the correct path is just worth it... I think what's tough about the PA route is that many programs require applicants to already have thousands of hours of patient contact before applying. This likely means that you will have to find some kind of job in health care prior to applying for a PA program... If I were you, before I set my heart on a PA program I would take a good hard look at nursing programs, NP programs, and MD/DO programs because you can get accepted into those types of schools without having the same kind of professional background a PA school require of you. With that said, if my heart was still set on PA, I would probably try to go for some kind of certificate or associates program first in something like respiratory therapy, pathology/radiology/laboratory tech, or EMT/paramedicine in order to move into the healthcare space with some kind of skill/career prospects before quitting my tech job. Then you can get the hours you need and take any classes the programs your interested in require of you while also confirming that you do indeed want to be a PA. That whole process, from making a plan to finishing your PA program could probably be done in 5 years which, when you consider how long medical school is, doesn't seem too bad. Especially, if you are able to stay in a lucrative profession before beginning PA school.

This is just my two cents. I am by no means an expert but I am at the end of my third and final year of post-bacc classes and I have spent a lot of time thinking about which path out of a tech and into healthcare makes the most sense.

throwaway39420 · 5 years ago

30 years old here and starting the prereqs for RN next week part-time (online). I figured at this age I don't have the time or mental acuity to be a MD. My first class being A&P should be a tell-tale sign of whether this experiment will go well.

blisterpeanuts · 5 years ago

30 is young, you'll be fine.

The tricky part (for me at least) is the memorization. After 20 years of working in a field where I can look up everything I need to know, suddenly I had to commit thousands of data points to memory to pass a test (then promptly forget the data afterwards). It's an archaic system.

Anyway you'll have to find a way to memorize and regurgitate. If you can do that, the rest is just common sense.

kaizendc · 5 years ago

Try utilizing Anki for spaced repetition. Brilliant program used by many medical students.

adv0r · 5 years ago

thanks for the feedback! I'll take your advice into account and dive into the book

OrangeBlaze · 5 years ago

I was once in a similar situation: I felt full but empty at the same time. I was very content with my life but I knew something was missing and I had no idea what it was. Some people have suggested to spend time ‘giving back’. But why? There is no real objective reason to be altruistic. It seemed to me that it was all meaningless. The very foundations of morals and ethics became weak. I hated this perspective and tried to inject some pseudo logical reason to give me purpose in my empty life. Like yourself, I concluded that I simply can’t carry on living like this.

What took me out of this loop was a stronger belief in God. I acknowledged that I was lost, submitted myself, and simply asked for guidance. This required a level of self-honestly and introspection. Incrementally, my life became filled with meaning as I began to understand Allah. Everything that I do, I do it in worship of Allah. I live and love in His light and life has never ever been better. My love and trust in Allah has given me a sense of purpose that is unparalleled. My relationships have improved tremendously and I am no longer subject to intense emotions of anxiety and existential dread. In turn, my productive output has improved as well as my mental clarity.(all by the grace of Allah)

I understand a lot of people may not believe in God. I implore you to throw your ego away and truly seek your wellbeing.

hug

Note: Allah literally translates to “The God” as Islam is strictly monotheistic.

bad_good_guy · 5 years ago

Is submitting yourself to the concept of a god not the opposite of introspection? You are forgoing the need to find meaning in yourself and the world around you and instead choosing to believe a pre-made 'answer' to those questions.

To me this is like choosing to throw yourself into a relationship only because you find that you struggle with being single. Using an easier, readily-available external source of comfort found in being part of a 'collective' rather than the more difficult path of becoming comfortable with yourself as an individual.

I believe you misunderstood the concept of submission. In life, worship is inevitable. For instance, people could worship material gains or the longing for the acceptance of society. Whether you like it or not, you will worship something(or multiple things) in your existence. In the act of submission, you conclude that there is nothing worthy of worship but Allah, the creator and sovereign of all worlds.

Part of this conclusion involves introspection. I believe there is a false dilemma in your approach where you imply that you can either find meaning in yourself or follow a 'pre-made answer'. These are not mutually inclusive. In fact, in numerous verses in Quran(the word of Allah), you will find that Allah strongly encourages the reader to sincerely reflect and find truth in him/herself and the world. Allah has given us the gift of reasoning and introspection and we can use that to reach the ultimate peace in submission to Allah.

Islam, being very strictly monotheistic, promotes that true comfort and solace is provided solely by Allah(in submission), not in being part of a 'collective'.

I hope that was insightful. :D

Disclaimer: Don't take my word, or anyone's word regarding Islam, for granted. I strongly recommend reading the Quran with an open mind and open heart.

yters · 5 years ago

Yet there is a lot that seems not so great about religion and very human in the evil done in its name. I find it hard to devote myself to a 'god' if the teachings could well be made up by a person and just be used to control people. How do you make sure you have the truth and not a man made ideology?

imhoguy · 5 years ago

You can try to worship "god" thru appreciation of surrounding nature, laws of physics, math, life complexity. Just use common sense and your own moral barometer.

em-bee · 5 years ago

keep searching and investigating independently. don't just follow someone else. evaluate everything that you see on whether it makes sense to you and, to the world. evaluate what the various religious communities are doing, how they put the words into action.

don't stop searching until it all makes sense to you.

Gollapalli · 5 years ago

Not a Muslim, but I think this is right answer. You were made for something, what is that thing you were made for? What set of tasks? Why live? The answer is really not up to you, but up to God.

viklove · 5 years ago

> There is no real objective reason to be altruistic.

> stronger belief in God

This is a bit conflicting, no?

I meant that without belief in God, there is no real objective rational reason to be altruistic.

paledot · 5 years ago

Thank you for sharing. Your journey also resonates for me as a humanist. The only difference is that my belief lies in other people.

Baeocystin · 5 years ago

>This time I'd like to start really pouring my soul into something that can provide meaning to my life

Meaning comes from within. If you're looking for outside sources, you've already lost. If you've achieved enough material success that you no longer have to worry about working to survive, excellent! Be grateful, for you have something 99.999% of the world will never have. Use the free time you have achieved to think about things that matter to you. Not what you 'think' should matter, not what other people say matters, but what actually matters to you. If you haven't done this before, (and it sounds like you haven't), don't be surprised when it turns out to be a genuinely difficult question. That's ok! Take your time, roll it around in your mind. Don't try and go 100% all-in on things. That only works when you have a concrete goal already defined. You need to let your default network roam around for a bit.

this resonate quite a lot with the state of things. Thanks.

Tomorrow morning I'll plan to spend some time in a library just pondering about it

ardit33 · 5 years ago

This is a symptom of someone that lived a 'square' life style all their lives... and never did something out of bounds or take risks

You really need to spice up your life... Go to the dessert, do some 'safe' drugs, (aka, mushrooms)..., get a mistress.... get a motorcycle (and be safe about it), buy one of those trycycle open air cars and ride the coast, start playing some social sports seriously, (volleyball/soccer) etc... etc...

It is up to you what you think you like, but often you never know until you try it. The fact that you are not happy, means you are getting a mini burn out from being so 'square' all your life. Time to rebel a bit, just don't throw the baby with the bathwater, (aka, don't destroy the good stuff in your life, just incorporate some more risky fun)

DrAwdeOccarim · 5 years ago

I love this comment. I could not agree more. I would love to re-live those years, but I am content to have "been there/done that". I would feel so empty without all the stupid shit I've done in my life. But of course I'm lucky to be alive, and also to have come of age pre-911, but I'm not sure how one can know how great they have things without having seen the edge. For passer-bys, I highly recommend reading the book Siddhartha for insight into this idea--finding bookends to your existence has brought me incredible peace.

ryanstorm · 5 years ago

I spent much of my 20's struggling with finding purpose in life, similar to the OP, and this is the only comment here that matched with what I landed on. I'm now about to begin my 30's with many of these things either done or in progress.

The biggest one has been taking up climbing as a sport. Climbing has a clear path to improvement, has a wonderful social element, takes you to amazing places around the world, and can be as safe or risky as you're willing to push.

The other big component in life that I've taken up is art. Writing, painting, music, poetry, you name it. There is something innate about producing art that I think every human can benefit from. On that note, I think it's also easy for us to dismiss ourselves as untalented in any of these arts, but they're like any other skill and they'll become more fulfilling with time.

not the case here. I don't think that adventure and spicy is what's missing. I did a lot of those things and more, luckily... It is true, however, that it's getting increasingly harder to convince friends to join me in adventures.

lxrbst · 5 years ago

Are you sure you actually implemented the life you wanted or what was expected from you? Sounds like you had a checklist/recipe for life and you went with it.

The good thing is you have so many doors open now. Do whatever. You're young enough to pick up any hobby or career. Don't think about whether it's financially worth doing or if you're on some "mission" or "purpose". Don't think about whether it's safe or unpopular.

Sometimes the most fulfilling things are inherently worthless. Learn an instrument, buy a motorcycle, make a painting, become a scuba instructor, run a marathon, try drugs, move to another country, sit at a park/cafe and talk with people - you get the picture. You'll find something that clicks, just get out of your checklist view of life.

> Sounds like you had a checklist/recipe for life and you went with it.

Yep, tried to follow a mix of passion and checklists.

> Do whatever.

love this. This is also the problem itself. I can do anything. But what will I miss out if I do x instead of y?

> Learn an instrument, buy a motorcycle, make a painting, become a scuba instructor, run a marathon, try drugs, move to another country, sit at a park/cafe and talk with people - you get the picture.

The instrument sounds good. I. did run a marathon, bought a motorcycle (and a sailboat), I can't paint, lived in 6 countries, drugs scary the shit out of me after teenage THC-related panic attacks.

Give me more.

> You'll find something that clicks, just get out of your checklist view of life.

Hahaha, some friend call me the "list man"... they also made a drawing of me holding a checklist at my wedding :

Take those lists of yours and burn them. Find the files you rely on to plan, and rm the crap out of them.

Be here and now. Talk to people you normally wouldn't talk to. Do things without needing justifications. Be an absolute clown for a day, or just do something really crazy (ie. involuntarily funny) without justifying it to anybody. Notice what piques your curiosity and engagement, and pursue some whims of fancy. Notice variations of feelings and how they play with the rest of mind-body system and vica versa.

splintercell · 5 years ago

I think I know your problem (source: achieved something similar like you few years ago, had a similar 'crises' like yours, and now I've a better grip at life).

So here's my very simple, steeped in wisdom, two word advice: dream bigger.

ALittleLight · 5 years ago

When you reach the top of the mountain, the only Zen you will find is the Zen you brought with you. Meaning: you must find fulfillment within yourself and not in outside things or accomplishments.

I'm kind of sick of myself, honestly.

That seems like a good place to start. Figure out why and what it would take to correct.

mariushn · 5 years ago

Any tips on how to get started on this?

Not really. I think one reason koans are general and kind of vague is that everyone's specifics are different and advice that works for some people may not work for everyone and may be exactly wrong for some.

Once, my then girlfriend was telling me that she was having trouble at work and always felt bad asking people for help. I gave her advice that had really helped me - which was to not worry about it and ask, ask, ask for help! It's the most efficient way, and all that.

My natural inclination is to never ask for help and figure it out myself. That can wind up taking me ten times as long to figure stuff out, so for me, really pushing to ask for help balances my natural tendencies and, if I try to ask for what seems like lots and lots of help, it'll wind up being about right.

My then girlfriend, on the other hand, was already inclined to ask for help. She was rightly worried that she was annoying other people and asking for too much help and I, though well meaning, gave her exactly the wrong advice and pushed her to keep doing exactly the wrong thing. The advice she needed was the exact opposite of what I needed. This is a specific example of how you can't really give advice to people without understanding them and their problems.

To go back to koans (which I quite like) - if you meet the Buddha, kill him. Meaning: you can't listen to other people to find enlightenment, it has to come from within you. Other people cannot tell you what you need to know, only you can do that.

And, of course, I'm not an enlightened guru living a perfect life or anything. I try my best. I think about problems and take steps to solve them.

throwaway391003 · 5 years ago

It's a huge lie that once you've achieved the "american dream" (which I don't think is the real american dream anyways) then everything will be sorted out. yes your life will be more amazing, and it's 100% important to reach this place, but once you've hit that place you'll lose a lot of motivation and energy, cause now lack of money, lack of family, lack of anything, doesn't kick your ass during the day. so you have a huge new challenge on your hands, and that is to re-invent yourself and discover what can move you now. you're embarking on a set of veryyyy difficult questions around what's the purpose of all this, what's the point of this, what the heck should i do with my days now. just know that you've been put on this journey for a reason and there's a way out and listen to your heart more than anything else. trust yourself. and be patient. there are answers out there and they will make you more fulfilled than you can imagine. the worst thing you can do is turn a blind eye to what your heart is saying and dive back into work and whatnot. you're doing the right, difficult thing by sitting patiently and staring right into the eye of the storm, so despite it appearing you're doing nothing with your life now, you're going through a lot of inner changes that will ultimately lead to a lot of outer changes.