Burnout gets a fair bit of discussion here on HN, but I'm wondering what the community thinks are the differences between a few subtly different challenges:
1) Burnout
2) Depression
3) Laziness
4) Being in the wrong job
Given that they all have very similar symptoms, how would you determine which one an individual is dealing with?
Depression is a clinical condition that arises when your mind/brain is unable to cope with the experiences/environment it's been in for an extended period of time, and is a signal that a change is needed in the brain/mind (medication and/or therapy) or in the environment (changes to e.g., lifestyle, relationships, job, location) - and likely both.
Laziness is a lack of motivation that could be caused by any number of things, but is generally a sign that your current life situation doesn't inspire you into positive action. But it could also be related to an undiagnosed mental and/or physiological illness that impedes your energy production/utilisation.
Being in the wrong job is a common sentiment, and may or may not be a problem depending on how empowered someone is. An empowered person (someone with enough qualifications/experience/confidence/energy/etc) will negotiate better conditions for their current job or find a new job that they're better suited to. A disempowered person will stay in the job due to lack of other options, and after long enough may end up being affected by one or more of the first three conditions.
Background: experienced it all over 15+ years and researched far and wide.
It would be difficult to give a comprehensive comment in depression, so I think you did fine, but I want to point out that it is difficult and complex, and as much as we understand about it, there is so much that is not understood.
This [1] is a video of a Robert Sapolsky lecture on depression that gives a high level but comprehensive overview of the current (as of 2009) state of understanding depression, kinds of depression, the role of some neurotransmitters.
This is a compassionate, technical, and broad overview.
1. https://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc
A job may fit, then as we grow, we get new ones that fit better.
I would say the stages are usually:
#1: Grow out of the current job
#2: Still working same hours, but tasks become boring, therefore instead of the job fueling us, it drains us... causing Burnout.
#3: Then Laziness settles in, because putting energy into boring tasks only leads to Burnout.
#4: Spiraling down the Laziness slide, into Depression. Simply, Depression is a loss of interest in activities once enjoyed. The antidote to Depression is doing... Doing new things we enjoy.
Therefore, take up an entirely new, and different practice. Perhaps move up to management. Or go to a new place, around new people.
TLDR: Do new.
... well, let's just say depression is inevitable. And being able to see new, a way out or anything else will likely require help from others. I got both help from others (churches (to oversimplify, there are multiple religious groups involved here) and more in my case - psych and medical was mostly unhelpful and/or toxic too - they believed the same lies the employers used!) and from friends and family ... and my life is a whole pile healthier and happier now. And if curious, no I don't attend any of the religious groups I visited during that period now. But I have a lot of respect for them now - well earned. And don't regret visiting any of them. And hopefully none regret my visiting them either too. People are people, and having healthy relationships means both parties should try to be healthy to one another.
Yes, employers can be abusive too, with all the consequences of being in an abusive relationship. This can also result in depression and usually burnout too. Especially if one works to ridiculous levels trying to keep the abusive employer happy. (it's also sometimes really hard to see that it's abusive without either outside help, or long and far enough distance)
I disagree though with laziness. IMHO it protects us from doing things that we don't like. People try to hack themselves to overcome it. That's actually dangerous.
Laziness stems from not caring, depression stems from the opposite.
I think what you've labelled as laziness could better be labelled as something else. Apathy perhaps?
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>Laziness is a lack of motivation that could be caused by any number of things, but is generally a sign that your current life situation doesn't inspire you into positive action.
I see motivation/inspiration/laziness conflated a lot. IMO 'laziness' is just a lack of discipline. You can be disciplined and still accomplish things without motivation or inspiration. In fact, I would argue that if you wait until you are inspired/motivated to get things done, you will be on the less-productive side of the spectrum.
Of course, it can be a huge challenge to stay disciplined when you are burnt out or depressed (or both). But, laziness is the difference between "I am depressed and don't feel like going to the gym" and "I am depressed and don't feel like going to the gym anyway, but I am still putting on my shoes and walking out the door".
Source: Got diagnosed with ADHD after feeling burnout, depression, laziness, and imposter syndrome all at once.
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Clinical methodology for treating depression in Sweden is to change the person's living / work situation as a first step before pursuing other treatments.
(prepare for cynical HN discussion at the top, but the article itself is pretty spot on)
Burnout: taking time off is a sufficient cure.
Depression: you cannot feel pleasure even at points of success when everyone else is, and it won't be so if you changed anything else about the job.
Laziness: you are not unhappy or unwell but notice other people with roughly your skillset and responsibility are more productive.
Wrong job: you are arguing a lot with people or taking a lot of criticism for having legitimately valid alternative opinions or ways of doing things.
In my experience personally and observing others, burnout is most often caused when you have a disconnect between expected reward (monetary, status, or emotional) for labor and actual reward for labor, effectively negatively reinforcing labor. It's especially bad when the miss is uncorrelated to performance, e.g. political or business decisions derail your e.g. promotion or payoff.
Taking a break to mitigate burnout can thus make the next cycle worse. A better choice is to take structured vacations at set points in the future, and when you feel like a missed expectation is likely or has happened, reinforce the work-reward relationship by doing little work things that create pops of success. The counterintuitive thing is that a strategy to counter burnout is more work (but carefully curated to nearly guarantee success)
For programming, I find going into an intense refactoring or debugging cycle is helpful (making green dots out of red ones is immensely satisfying)... When I was a biologist, I found doing routine "never fail" procedures like molecular biology to be helpful after an experimental failure or catastrophe, like staying up on an all nighter and coming back the next day to find a procedural error had ruined the whole thing
For me personally whenever I have felt burned out by programming I just went over to one of those competitve programming sites and solve one of their problems. It is also cool seeing your rank move in correlation with others. I know if I quit peogramming for a week then I will actually feel less motivated to code.
Depression is a mental health condition that can cause lethargy and can be brought on by stress, but it is chiefly characterized by extended and repeated periods of sadness and self loathing and can be brought on by many causes, including traumatic events, changes in hormone balance, or environmental factors. Simple rest and relaxation will not, at least on its own, make depression go away. While a depressed person is having a depressive episode, they may find it very difficult to work, but in between episodes they will work normally.
Laziness means you don't like to work, or at least can't motivate yourself to do the tasks you need to do. It is a character trait that neither starts nor goes away suddenly. Instead it something that must be routinely overcome. A lazy person may have a lower baseline level of motivation than a non-lazy person, but their motivation level should remain about as consistent as a normal person's; they won't have sudden unexplainable drops in productivity.
Being in the wrong job means something specific to the job itself is problematic but the person is otherwise an enthusiastic worker. Instead of sudden dips in enthusiasm, or consistent low performance, they will likely show a slow but steady decline as the negative aspects of their job takes a toll. Often the person in the wrong job actually likes the work itself, but other aspects of the working environment such as coworkers or organization make them unhappy.
Finally, these cases are not mutually exclusive. A lazy person can find themselves in the wrong job, get burntout trying to do it anyways, triggering the onset of depression. Luckily, the remedies for each challenge are very unlikely to have a negative effect on someone who is actually facing one of the other challenges.
"Understanding Burnout," Prof. Christina Maslach (U.C. Berkeley) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kLPyV8lBbs
This article is a summary of what's in the above speaker's book
Recovering from Burnout https://kierantie.com/burnout/
I also want to mention the article above has a link to Mind Tools, which is a web site that has a test you can take but I recommend reading their articles on leadership as it helps one understand their place and the direction they need to take as leaders of their own life as well as leaders in the lives of others, which is an interesting perspective in the context of the listed topics.
Yay, 60 points!
Assuming you're not trolling: if you think you have ADHD and are telling yourself "may not be best suited" etc I strongly recommend looking into this in more detail. At its root, ADHD is a "hardware problem" in one part of the brain and can occur independent of other attributes of a person. So a highly intelligent and not-so-intelligent person can both have ADHD.
If you DONT think you have ADHD, educate yourself and stop saying ignorant stuff. Do you think near/long sighted people should not wear glasses too, and that people with depression should not get treatment?
You can start by watching Dr. Barkley's videos on youtube.
PS: Every time ADHD is mentioned someone pops up with an ignorant comment. You win this thread!
I'm just going to ignore the laziness point since I don't really like that word. You can dislike an activity and avoid it, that doesn't make you lazy. If you need to still do something regardless of whether you like it or not, you need to change how you think about that activity or find a way to enjoy it, otherwise you're just needlessly torturing yourself. Or you just avoid thinking about how much you dislike something and just do it instead. Either way, saying someone is lazy carries both a negative judgement and a lack of insight, so this word I think is best avoided. If you feel you're being "lazy", best to try to understand why you're avoiding what you think you should be doing and fix it.
Lastly, if you're depressed or burnt out, there will be some obvious signs. You'll be tired, have a hard time focusing, you may have muscle aches or headaches all the time. You may see nothing positive in your future and may ruminate excessively about your perceived shortcomings or problems. You may also find it difficult or impossible to react emotionally to things (e.g. being excited or sad). Basically, you'll feel terrible all the time.
2) Depression - It is a state of mind where you do not have the energy to do anything, not only in office but also in personal life. Usually characterized by lack of enthusiasm in anything and a lingering feeling of sadness. Switching jobs won't help, consulting a psychiatrist will.
3) Laziness - A state where you have been doing the same thing for so long that you have gotten good at it and do not feel panic anymore. If you do not have any aim in life and just want to cruise along ( and have the ability to cruise along while getting good reviews in office ) laziness is a valid choice. It might not get you promoted or noticed at office and you will stagnate. IMO it is not a negative state to be in, but not positive either.
4) Being in the wrong job - Two types that I can think of
1. You have tons of energy, you have tons of enthusiasm and want to do tons of work but still you seem to be going nowhere, is a sign of being in the wrong job.
2. You have low energy, you don't enjoy what you do while at your job. At home you have high energy, contribute to projects and can work on stuff which interests you and can get you paid. In burnout, depression and laziness people's ability to do side projects is markedly diminished. This is not the case with being in the wrong job.
4 sub 2: I think I have the right job but the wrong home.
The individual needs to talk to an expert (a doctor or a therapist) to find this.
Many medical issues show similar symptoms - we go to a doctor for a physical issue, then why do we think we know enough to diagnose mental issues?
These things are complex, and it is okay to ask for help.