> "We don't get enough sleep, and we are not going to "change our ways" because there are already too few hours in most people's days to do things they enjoy. Call it a sad fact of life because that's what it is"
This honestly is spot on the way I think about it - I can sleep early, but who benefits from my day to day learning as an adult? My employer maybe? Me in some minor long term ways?
Or I can stay up and do things I enjoy, wake myself up with an alarm every day and consume enough caffeine to bridge the gap. This way, I get more enjoyment out of my life in a very direct and measurable way.
If 5-6 hours of sleep a night is enough to get paid, I'm not going to make a sacrifice that will cost me personally.
Someone else already recommended "Why We Sleep" by the premier sleep researcher in the field, and I highly suggest you get it. Here is a passage from it that should make you rethink the entire rationale you are using to shortchange yourself of sleep:
"Routinely sleeping less than six or seven hours a night demolishes your immune system, more than doubling your risk of cancer. Insufficient sleep is a key lifestyle factor determining whether or not you will develop Alzheimer’s disease. Inadequate sleep—even moderate reductions for just one week—disrupts blood sugar levels so profoundly that you would be classified as pre-diabetic. Short sleeping increases the likelihood of your coronary arteries becoming blocked and brittle, setting you on a path toward cardiovascular disease, stroke, and congestive heart failure. Fitting Charlotte Brontë’s prophetic wisdom that “a ruffled mind makes a restless pillow,” sleep disruption further contributes to all major psychiatric conditions, including depression, anxiety, and suicidality."
The book isn't so much about "why we sleep" but rather "why you should sleep more" – 350 pages of Walker telling you about study after study after study after study comparing well-slept to underslept people, and all of the afflictions the latter suffer from, often without even noticing it (and the consequences for industry and society).
While I found his contrived writing style annoying at times, the content is the kind of eye-opening that makes you want to buy a dozen copies just to give to your family and friends.
Ever so slight word of caution, my reading this book coincided with a period where I wasn’t sleeping very well for various reasons, and I think the book actually made it worse as I was more worried about the detrimental effects of my poor night’s sleep due to what I’d read, so I stopped reading it! I’ve heard the same anecdotally from a couple of other people too.
That said, I think it is a very important book, and now I’ve hopefully resolved my sleep issue (with thanks to some of the comments on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16671944 - primarily the advice about having a regular “sleep schedule”) I look forward to finishing it!
And if early death doesn't scare you enough, he also mentioned that you're measurably less attractive when you haven't had enough sleep. I recall the study was based on having people rate the attractiveness of participants, in some pictures they had slept well, in some they hadn't, and the attractiveness score of those who had recently slept poorly was lower.
I was going through this patch where I had not slept well for a couple weeks and happened to be at the doctor's office for a checkup. My blood pressure came back 135/80, when normally am at 110/70. The doctor asked me if I was stressed, frankly I was not, nor was I sick, and regular with eating clean and working out. I realized that it was sleep deprivation.
I think the sad thing is that people take this to mean, "block off more time to sleep" when much, much more common is the issue that we're in civilized society. Most of us have some level of reduced oxygen supply during sleep and exposure to allergens (especially in kids who go to public school). I suspect that most people who pass the fuck out at 12am, sleep like a brick, and wake up groggy at 6am will naturally want more sleep the next night. The real issue comes when people are hardly sleeping at all no matter how much or how little effort they devote to their new self improvement plan.
Reading this book over my summer break really drilled the importance of sleep home for me. I was chronically sleep deprived, working on personal projects late into the night after work. After reading this book I realized I was doing myself more harm than good. I was on a five-week holiday at the time, which was the perfect opportunity to start following a more strict sleep schedule. I've slipped a little bit since going back to work, but still manage to get between 7-8 hours per night now and feel better for it.
Remember that the author is financially incentivised to make claims about large effect sizes of sleep deprivation, and to infer causality where it may or may not exist.
I suggest you read "why we sleep" by Matthew Walker. According to him (phd in neuroscience from stanford) you are just short changing yourself -- you're opening yourself up to all sorts of heath conditions later on. Not telling you how to live your life, just saying this book fundamentally changed the way I think about sleep and it is worth your time (IMHO)
This book is truly terrifying. I've been a "work through it" kind of person all my life, and have sacrificed sleep from a very young age for both personal and professional priorities. I've been labeled by close friends and loved ones as "forgetful" or "absent-minded." Now I'm faced with the reality that maybe I'm actually causing myself real damage, and these aren't facets of my personality, but symptoms of something worse. Thankfully, I'm only 32 and have time to correct course.
One thing I've really changed my thinking on in the past few years is my attitude towards work situations demanding late nights. I wouldn't smoke a cigarette for work, so why was I making excuses for late nights?
I've got an Ouraring, and track my sleep constantly -- but still have trouble getting a consistent 8.5 hours. But I'm getting better.
In the middle of this book right now, it's eye opening. I've never really prioritized sleep until now, and the difference in how I feel is very noticeable. I may have less waking time, but I'd say the difference in the integral of hours-enjoyment is a big net win.
Yeah, if anything, that book just ingrained in my brain the importantce of not screwing up sleep. So much so that I know have slight fear if I don`t sleep well or need to shorten the sleep for 1-2 days for some reason.
Heh. You'd be surprised, so long as you're willing to apply your skills outside of employment and with the knowledge that you might not get paid for it. There are SO MANY fields of applied programming that are currently completely starved for resources.
Think of it in terms of open source projects, where the projects that you might be interested have only a few people working on them - but in the context of issues that affect folk completely outside of tech who don't have disposable income like those you'd see on HN or similar.
I seriously recommend that you check out a local "open data civics" group, or something similar in your area. You'll find that they're generally filled with junior programmers - but what they need are senior level programmers who can take charge of problems that junior programmers otherwise can't take charge of. Be that person.
FWIW, personally everything that I learn is entirely aimed towards helping the general public (at a distance), at the expense of my own salary. The work has been very rewarding. That said, it would be great if others would take the plunge that I have.
This is very interesting train of thought and I've been trying for the past two years to find these type of opportunities within my wider network of acquaintances. Still, not much luck. Would you have some ideas / insights / further concrete examples on what could one do? I am very motivated to help and give back to those around because there is not much else I can do except for this.
Feel free to email me at the address in my desc. Thanks-a-lot!
You can't be serious. Why would I want to come home and continue applying the same skillset I apply at work all day?
Is there something about software development that makes people feel the need to practice it every waking minute of their lives?
I mean, sometimes I do it when there's an itch I really need scratched, but most of the time I'd rather do something else. Basically anything else. Is it so wrong to want to socialize a bit or put on one of the pile of TV shows and anime I'd like to check out?
Doing that sort of volunteer work is great, but I just can't, I need to turn it off at some point.
Sleep is very important for your physical and mental health, and it affects people around you, too.
Even those two extra hours you can add are really important. You probably could say "yeah, I'll just drink coffee in the morning," well, NOTHING is a replacement for sleep and coffee has some repercussions in your sleep too (depending on quantity and when you drink it).
So if you are sleep deprived and adding coffee to the mix, you're doing it wrong. Inform yourself, read books about it, ask doctors, don't make decisions based on what people say on the internet (myself included) and you will notice a big difference almost right away.
I stopped drinking coffee (because I have terrible reflux) and started sleeping more. I wake up in a better mood; I noticed that I'm more productive at work because I'm less stressed, plus my family noticed the change too.
Not to mention that a good night's sleep is one of the best feelings I know. I try my best to get at least 8 hours of sleep every night, and waking up in the morning is almost a joy.
Getting more sleep enhances every aspect of my day to day life. I snack less, drink less coke, eat better, spend much less time lazing around rewatching crap on netflix because I'm too exhausted to do anything else. I've been to the gym more simply because I can be bothered.
A better way is stop doing stupid things. Many of us need to sleep in because we play around on our phones/games for hours before bed. I get up between 5-6 am every morning and go workout. Then I have super productive time for a few hours without interruptions. Come 9-10 pm I go to bed and am sleep in minutes from a full day.
I realized that when I used to stay up later I wasn’t very productive, and just wasted a lot of time.
Avoiding rush hour and hiring help when practical has been absolutely key for me. I was in a bad loop of insufficient sleep --> poor functioning ---> need to work more to compensate ----> insufficient sleep for years before I started taking this stuff more seriously. Sometimes still fale to get enough, but these two relatively minor changes have been really beneficial.
#4 will kill your mental health over time - would not recommend. Take 15 minutes to close your laptop and sit somewhere else. The other suggestions are really good.
That reads a lot like the classic sleep deprived cycle. Hard to get up, tired for most of the day, exhausted after work, feels awake towards the evening, can't sleep, rinse and repeat.
If that is the case I think the key is realizing that you are cheating yourself. When you aren't sleep deprived you should be able to do most of your required work mid-morning and take it easy in the afternoon. Then when you get home you won't be exhausted and can do whatever you want and still go to bed at ease.
As I get older I find myself worrying more about having enough time than I worry about having enough money, being productive enough, or even having pristine health. Time feels more and more important to optimize, having spent most of my youth wasting time and optimizing for those other things.
Once we get UBI or a <40 hour work week becomes the norm, this kind of stuff will be applicable to many more people. Right now a lot of the population can't afford to be healthy.
I'm highly doubtful that it'll diminish my enjoyment of life by more than the 2.5 hours a day worth of enjoyment I wouldn't otherwise have. That's like adding a full month of time to every year.
I could get hit by a bus and die tomorrow and I'd be damn glad I took that extra time for myself each and every day.
Right? When reading such comments I sometimes replace “sleep” with “eating” or “drinking”. It’s insane. If my basic physiological needs aren’t met I’m miserable and unable to enjoy the pleasures of life.
Aren't you curious about the world, about history, about psychology? You won't be able to learn deep rich history if you don't remember what you read in the first nine books once you get to the real payoff in the tenth book.
Honestly, I'm not. I like to build things, software, hobby electronics, a bit of cooking and baking, but all of that stuff is best learned through experience, not rote memoization.
Other than that though I find it far more enjoyable to do something other than blindly consume knowledge for no purpose, I'd much rather engage in social activities or play games - even making numbers go up is more satisfying to me than memorizing factoids of limited practical use to me.
I think that for most people who don't get enough sleep it's not because they are busy squeezing every bit of joy out of life. It's because they're using their phone in bed, watching TV, etc.
I'm lucky enough that I haven't cut on my sleep much during my adolescence or my college studies. Today I feel awful every time I sleep less than 7 hours, and moderately dysfunctional if I don't sleep 8 a few days in a row.
By "awful" I mean that I just think slower. It's like playing a game with lag, not fun. I wonder if/how many people who claim they can sleep 6 hours a day and feel fine have just gotten so used to the lag that they don't notice it anymore.
I have a different journey with the exact same results.
In my adolescence/college studies, I thought fast, and slept little. I could stay up all night with friends then go to class the next morning. I spent the first 5/6 years of my career being a top performer on 4 hours every weekday, and catching up on 8-10 hours of sleep over each weekend night.
Then, 3 things happened almost at the same time:
1) I got a much tougher job that challenged me like I never had before (FAANG)
2) I turned 30
3) I lost the ability to sleep in on the weekends. I wake up at 8am now every day regardless of what time I go to bed.
Until #3, I got by with coffee and still using weekends for recovery - way more coffee. #3 ruined it.
I still got by - and was even successful.
Then,
#4) I got promoted.
Now the challenges are out of this world, and I can't sustain my lifestyle any more. I'm struggling to adjust to going to bed early because my brain and all my instincts are still in the mode of "Nighttime is for creativity and fun! We can sleep when we're dead!"
But it's starting to affect my work, which in turn is stressing me out, because I really love my job and I want to excel at it. The effects are just as you describe - lag. I'm slow. I'm not as smart as I used to be.
So...gradually...i'm learning to force myself to sleep. I welcome tips. :S
If we were to get solid sleep every day, it would essentially mean commuting from work, eating dinner, taking a shower and going to bed. Every f----ing day. Basically working for the weekend and feeling like there is nothing else in your life. I don't know how to do it.
Liking a job doesn't really cut it. It's a great start, but no matter how much you like something, it will get to you if you have to do it every day 10 hours a day. That and sleep.
I have struggled with falling asleep a lot. This has been helpful recently:
1. 2-3 hours before bed, put away all electronics (including phone and TV/netflix)
2. Read a _real_ book for 1-2 hours
3. If I can't fall asleep, I put on Dan Carlin's Hardcore History Podcast with a sleep timer of 10 minutes. I usually get absorbed into his story telling and it helps take my mind of things.
4. No alchohol during the week
5. No caffeine after ~1pm; and only 1 coffee when I arrive at work
Admittedly, my week is a little boring this way and I still haven't worked up to doing it consistently, but it's been much more effective than anything else.
I can definitely relate to everything you've said, minus FAANG. One thing that helped me a lot is finding a job that allows my schedule to be flexible. Minus oncall, I can come in at 8am or noon, and no one bats an eye as long as work gets done. It removed a lot of anxiety and rushing in the morning.
Maybe not having to be in early might remove some morning anxiety and make it easier for you to sleep in?
One thing I do to help myself sleep is to think about it in a long term versus short term framework. I don’t know about you, but for me, sleeping less is usually better in the short term. I can get more done, or have more fun, today. But when I look at the longer term, I think that getting more sleep ends up being the better investment. Not just in terms of health, but in others areas too - I make better decisions, create better relationships, and think deeper about problems.
Since most things that end up being successful for me over the long term are due to optimizing for long term outcomes, framing the problem that way helps me stay focused on getting proper sleep.
My body really dislikes 8 or more hours of sleep. I've found the magic number for me is 7 hours of sleep. With this I wake up feeling good. 8 hours of sleep makes me tired all day. 6 hours is also better than 8 hours for me.
what people mean when they "can" sleep only 6 hours a night is that it doesnm't get painful to be awake and talking. They are still going to be slow and have just gotten used to it.
I just completely broke my sleep. I was in Hong Kong, then Mountain Standard Time and then back to Eastern. My doctor prescribed Zopiclone, so I used it the first couple of nights when I returned. For the first time in my adult life, I have been sleeping 8.5 hours a night. I was usually awake after 6 hours. Occasionally I could get 7.5 but generally with an interruption.
It is going to take some time to get used to and I hope it lasts, but it feels great to make progress reading books on dry subjects on a weeknight or just being alert in the afternoon.
We have so much to learn about the body and sleep.
I found zopiclone to be addictive. You have the most amazing sleep for the first few days when you take it. Then afterwards when you stop taking it, you get the absolute worst sleep: barely hitting REM, constantly waking up, difficulty falling asleep.
I think: diphenhydramine or melatonin might be a safer bet for some people. Never take it more than a few days in a row.
Literally any sleep substance taken regularly can be addictive, either physically or psychologically. Even melatonin, which is what your body produces will get less and less effective.
As an aside, melatonin is often sold at dosages insanely higher than recommended. Studied have shown that less than a mg, even low as 0.1mg is the optimal dose for many people, but you can easily find 1, 3, 10mg dosages, which is insane. I was in hong kong, the lowest dosage I could find on shelves was 3mg - way too much.
What is wrong with doctors these days :( There are a thousand natural tricks to helping get back on a regular sleep schedule without prescribing an addictive drug that actually breaks your sleep in the long run. (See: Ambien)
It has opposite effect on me - after a strenuous strength training session I usually can't sleep well, often being in a half-zombie state until 3am then having some shallow sleep until morning.
so it was kind of implied, but i want to ask explicitly - those 2.5 extra hours of sleep had a noticeable impact in your days? If you had to qualify the experience beyond 'just being more alert,' how would you do so?
I fast and maintain a ketogenic diet. Its 5:45am as Im typing this. Ive been up since 4. Went to bed at 11. Currently on hour 35 of a fast that I plan to end mid morning. Unless I still feel "great"...
I have high mental clarity currently. I had high mental clarity when I went to sleep. I did have issues sleeping, but this is nothing new on a ketogenic and fasting state.
From the vast research I've done, sleeping may be more important on a high-insulin-fluctuating diet. However, when the body and brain are fat adapted (less insulin), there is a constant fuel source. The brain operates very efficiently on ketones. Also, important to note that when fasting and doing keto, you must supplement electrolytes.
There is a lot more to all of this and the notion behind the importance of sleep. Anecdotally, diet proves to be more important for me. Do your own research.
I intermittent fast everyday, apart from when I run long distances (more than 10 miles). I also do a 24 hour (sometimes more) on a Monday which is when I don't run at all.
Doing this has helped my sleep so much and my productivity has gone through the roof.
I don't do ketogenic though, I believe a good source of carbs in our diet is fine. I tend to get mine from sweet potatoes. I stay well away from refined sugars though.
I agree that good sources of carbs are fine as well. The human body is amazing such that there is no end-all be-all diet for it and its able to adapt efficiently to healthy diets.
I actually do a high-glycemic (talking baked sugary madness) load/refeed around intense workouts every once and awhile; also keeps me sane.
> From the vast research I've done, sleeping may be more important on a high-insulin-fluctuating diet.
Could you link to some of your peer-reviewed articles in moderate-to-high impact journals? I'd be really interested in hearing about that vast body of research.
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This honestly is spot on the way I think about it - I can sleep early, but who benefits from my day to day learning as an adult? My employer maybe? Me in some minor long term ways?
Or I can stay up and do things I enjoy, wake myself up with an alarm every day and consume enough caffeine to bridge the gap. This way, I get more enjoyment out of my life in a very direct and measurable way.
If 5-6 hours of sleep a night is enough to get paid, I'm not going to make a sacrifice that will cost me personally.
"Routinely sleeping less than six or seven hours a night demolishes your immune system, more than doubling your risk of cancer. Insufficient sleep is a key lifestyle factor determining whether or not you will develop Alzheimer’s disease. Inadequate sleep—even moderate reductions for just one week—disrupts blood sugar levels so profoundly that you would be classified as pre-diabetic. Short sleeping increases the likelihood of your coronary arteries becoming blocked and brittle, setting you on a path toward cardiovascular disease, stroke, and congestive heart failure. Fitting Charlotte Brontë’s prophetic wisdom that “a ruffled mind makes a restless pillow,” sleep disruption further contributes to all major psychiatric conditions, including depression, anxiety, and suicidality."
The book isn't so much about "why we sleep" but rather "why you should sleep more" – 350 pages of Walker telling you about study after study after study after study comparing well-slept to underslept people, and all of the afflictions the latter suffer from, often without even noticing it (and the consequences for industry and society).
While I found his contrived writing style annoying at times, the content is the kind of eye-opening that makes you want to buy a dozen copies just to give to your family and friends.
That said, I think it is a very important book, and now I’ve hopefully resolved my sleep issue (with thanks to some of the comments on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16671944 - primarily the advice about having a regular “sleep schedule”) I look forward to finishing it!
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One thing I've really changed my thinking on in the past few years is my attitude towards work situations demanding late nights. I wouldn't smoke a cigarette for work, so why was I making excuses for late nights?
I've got an Ouraring, and track my sleep constantly -- but still have trouble getting a consistent 8.5 hours. But I'm getting better.
What habits did you change?
Think of it in terms of open source projects, where the projects that you might be interested have only a few people working on them - but in the context of issues that affect folk completely outside of tech who don't have disposable income like those you'd see on HN or similar.
I seriously recommend that you check out a local "open data civics" group, or something similar in your area. You'll find that they're generally filled with junior programmers - but what they need are senior level programmers who can take charge of problems that junior programmers otherwise can't take charge of. Be that person.
FWIW, personally everything that I learn is entirely aimed towards helping the general public (at a distance), at the expense of my own salary. The work has been very rewarding. That said, it would be great if others would take the plunge that I have.
Feel free to email me at the address in my desc. Thanks-a-lot!
Is there something about software development that makes people feel the need to practice it every waking minute of their lives?
I mean, sometimes I do it when there's an itch I really need scratched, but most of the time I'd rather do something else. Basically anything else. Is it so wrong to want to socialize a bit or put on one of the pile of TV shows and anime I'd like to check out?
Doing that sort of volunteer work is great, but I just can't, I need to turn it off at some point.
Sleep is very important for your physical and mental health, and it affects people around you, too.
Even those two extra hours you can add are really important. You probably could say "yeah, I'll just drink coffee in the morning," well, NOTHING is a replacement for sleep and coffee has some repercussions in your sleep too (depending on quantity and when you drink it).
So if you are sleep deprived and adding coffee to the mix, you're doing it wrong. Inform yourself, read books about it, ask doctors, don't make decisions based on what people say on the internet (myself included) and you will notice a big difference almost right away.
I stopped drinking coffee (because I have terrible reflux) and started sleeping more. I wake up in a better mood; I noticed that I'm more productive at work because I'm less stressed, plus my family noticed the change too.
Conversely I can take 6.5 hours of sleep and do exercise, or sleep for 8 hours and not have time to exercise.
Self-help books are noticeably silent on which is better.
* Acquire a shorter commute by moving somewhere closer to work, shifting your working hours to avoid rush hour, or working from home.
* Bike to work, to combine commuting and exercise time.
* Hire help with daily chores like lawn work, house cleaning, laundry, and cooking.
* Eat lunch at your desk
I realized that when I used to stay up later I wasn’t very productive, and just wasted a lot of time.
If that is the case I think the key is realizing that you are cheating yourself. When you aren't sleep deprived you should be able to do most of your required work mid-morning and take it easy in the afternoon. Then when you get home you won't be exhausted and can do whatever you want and still go to bed at ease.
I could get hit by a bus and die tomorrow and I'd be damn glad I took that extra time for myself each and every day.
Other than that though I find it far more enjoyable to do something other than blindly consume knowledge for no purpose, I'd much rather engage in social activities or play games - even making numbers go up is more satisfying to me than memorizing factoids of limited practical use to me.
Deleted Comment
I think that for most people who don't get enough sleep it's not because they are busy squeezing every bit of joy out of life. It's because they're using their phone in bed, watching TV, etc.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/chpf/homepage/ref=smi_se_scyc_sr...
Deleted Comment
By "awful" I mean that I just think slower. It's like playing a game with lag, not fun. I wonder if/how many people who claim they can sleep 6 hours a day and feel fine have just gotten so used to the lag that they don't notice it anymore.
Only thing I'm afraid of is children...
In my adolescence/college studies, I thought fast, and slept little. I could stay up all night with friends then go to class the next morning. I spent the first 5/6 years of my career being a top performer on 4 hours every weekday, and catching up on 8-10 hours of sleep over each weekend night.
Then, 3 things happened almost at the same time:
1) I got a much tougher job that challenged me like I never had before (FAANG)
2) I turned 30
3) I lost the ability to sleep in on the weekends. I wake up at 8am now every day regardless of what time I go to bed.
Until #3, I got by with coffee and still using weekends for recovery - way more coffee. #3 ruined it.
I still got by - and was even successful.
Then,
#4) I got promoted.
Now the challenges are out of this world, and I can't sustain my lifestyle any more. I'm struggling to adjust to going to bed early because my brain and all my instincts are still in the mode of "Nighttime is for creativity and fun! We can sleep when we're dead!"
But it's starting to affect my work, which in turn is stressing me out, because I really love my job and I want to excel at it. The effects are just as you describe - lag. I'm slow. I'm not as smart as I used to be.
So...gradually...i'm learning to force myself to sleep. I welcome tips. :S
Liking a job doesn't really cut it. It's a great start, but no matter how much you like something, it will get to you if you have to do it every day 10 hours a day. That and sleep.
Admittedly, my week is a little boring this way and I still haven't worked up to doing it consistently, but it's been much more effective than anything else.
Maybe not having to be in early might remove some morning anxiety and make it easier for you to sleep in?
Since most things that end up being successful for me over the long term are due to optimizing for long term outcomes, framing the problem that way helps me stay focused on getting proper sleep.
We have so much to learn about the body and sleep.
I think: diphenhydramine or melatonin might be a safer bet for some people. Never take it more than a few days in a row.
Exactly.
Literally any sleep substance taken regularly can be addictive, either physically or psychologically. Even melatonin, which is what your body produces will get less and less effective.
As an aside, melatonin is often sold at dosages insanely higher than recommended. Studied have shown that less than a mg, even low as 0.1mg is the optimal dose for many people, but you can easily find 1, 3, 10mg dosages, which is insane. I was in hong kong, the lowest dosage I could find on shelves was 3mg - way too much.
Thanks!
and in 2010: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1207945
I have high mental clarity currently. I had high mental clarity when I went to sleep. I did have issues sleeping, but this is nothing new on a ketogenic and fasting state.
From the vast research I've done, sleeping may be more important on a high-insulin-fluctuating diet. However, when the body and brain are fat adapted (less insulin), there is a constant fuel source. The brain operates very efficiently on ketones. Also, important to note that when fasting and doing keto, you must supplement electrolytes.
There is a lot more to all of this and the notion behind the importance of sleep. Anecdotally, diet proves to be more important for me. Do your own research.
related: https://www.alzheimers.net/diabetes-of-the-brain/
Doing this has helped my sleep so much and my productivity has gone through the roof.
I don't do ketogenic though, I believe a good source of carbs in our diet is fine. I tend to get mine from sweet potatoes. I stay well away from refined sugars though.
I actually do a high-glycemic (talking baked sugary madness) load/refeed around intense workouts every once and awhile; also keeps me sane.
Could you link to some of your peer-reviewed articles in moderate-to-high impact journals? I'd be really interested in hearing about that vast body of research.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Dead Comment
http://super-memory.com/articles/sleep.htm